[stat1951]

Originally Posted by ciobl

you talked about it; someone from anabolic forum talked about it :

Wild Oats and Nettles Vs. Proviron

hgh the real hgh, not otc supplements they claim with low maneuvering tactics to have it is indeed very expensive.

It was someone else talking about it at that link.... and of course I cannot locate that study on Nettles and lowering SHBG right off hand.

But in the meantime, here's segments from an article by a "Nelson Montana" that spells it out in somewhat more detail. His perspective is oriented towards the AAS using bodybuilder, but the conceptual basis is still the same 0 and meanwhile I'll keep looking for that study!

...Be that as it may, with all the use, and over-use of testosterone and other steroids, many enhanced bodybuilders don't grow much more than some natural athletes. Why? The answer to that question may turn out to be of immense importance, not only to chemically enhanced athletes, but those who are natural as well.

Follow the process of testosterone enhancement for a moment and the solution will start to become clear.

Injecting 200 milligrams of a drug like Testosterone Cypionate (a fairly low dose) will raise one's testosterone level by about 500 ngs (nanograms). That's 500 ngs above one's existing level. Most healthy men under the age of 50 have a testosterone level of between 400 to 900 ngs. What this means is, even if your T level is on the low side of 400, a mere 200 mg shot will shoot your testosterone above the upper normal range -- close to 1000! Now, anyone should be able to grow muscle with 1000 ngs of testosterone, yet time and time again, you see steroid users taking up to several times that amount and barely making gains. The reason for this is as simple as it is curious.

Most of the body's testosterone, whether it's produced in the testes or injected directly into the bloodstream via an external source, is kept in a "bound" state. In other words, it's unusable. Only a small portion of our total testosterone provides all the benefits while the remainder just floats around until it dissipates. That which is un-bound is known as "free" testosterone. And in the long run, that's the only stuff that counts.

What determines how much free testosterone we have at any given time is an enzyme known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin -- also known as SHBG. The more you have, the more testosterone will be kept in a bound state. The pesky little chemical is also the reason some guys hardly grow even while on high dosages of steroids. The more exogenous testosterone that enters your body, the more SHBG the body will produce. It's our body's way of maintaining homeostasis. It's also another reason why taking supraphysiological dosages of steroids isn't the wisest choice. The more you take, the more it binds, so at a certain point, most of it is just wasted....

This information also bears out reports that many pros don't take quite as much as one may think. The presumption is that in order to achieve that level of muscularity they need insane dosages but it's more likely that these lucky individuals simply have more favorable androgen receptors and lower SHBG than the average bodybuilder. To put it in comparative terms, if you were to take 1000 mgs of testosterone and your "free" T is 30, yet someone else takes only 500 mgs of testosterone (or none at all) and his free T is 40, he's going to kick your butt in a competition. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is.

Instead of taking more exogenous testosterone, it would make more sense to allow more of the testosterone we already have to become unbound. Unfortunately, the amount of SHBG you have is determined mostly by genetics and those individuals who have a lot of it will probably always remain "hardgainers." SHBG also increases with age. In spite of these drawbacks, there have been some fascinating findings that may be able to tilt the odds in your favor.

There are drugs, most notably Proviron and Winstrol, that have been shown to reduce SHBG, but of course, drug therapy cannot be maintained on a continual basis. Sooner or later you have to come off. The responsible, long term approach to lowering SHBG is through natural pathways and research in the area of herbology is showing positive results toward the goal of reducing bound testosterone.

It turns out that certain herbs which have purported to have aphrodisiac effects may do so, not through increased testosterone as once thought, not through any stimulation of the genitals, not even through some increased blood flow to the penis, but through the action of reducing SHBG. What's especially encouraging about these findings is the fact that more "Free T" will not cause the negative side effects of increased total testosterone. You'll still have the same amount of natural testosterone, only more of it will be available to impart its positive effects. Among those positive effects are improved mood, heightened libido, reduced risk of heart disease and what may be most intriguing to bodybuilders, the potential for more muscle growth!

One of the best indicators of Free T levels is frequency of morning erections since there are no psychological or stimulative factors involved. It's strictly a biological response and governed by one's health. Most young men experience this daily. Once a guy gets into his 40's, that pleasant morning surprise may not rear its head as often. (Pun intended). Regardless of what age you are, if you wake up more than two days in a row without an erection, or if it's weak or becomes flaccid within a minute of being awake, it's a safe bet to say your free T is down and progress in muscle development will be slow.

One promising cure to the lack of "wake up wood" is the herb Avena Sativa. Users report a substantial increase in morning erections while using this product. Such a reaction suggests that Avena Sativa may actually reduce Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Another anecdotal bit of evidence is the fact that some users complain of an outbreak of back acne. This, too, is a sign of an abrupt hormonal change not unlike what occurs during puberty or the beginning of a steroid cycle. The one drawback of Avena Sativa is that many commercial brands lack the active extract and it's the extract that makes it effective. When purchasing Avena Sativa, make sure it lists the percentage of "Avenacosides." It should be at least 5%. A daily dose of 500-1000 mgs may be just what you need to start the day off with a smile. Also, be aware of the old "bait and switch" tactic. There's one popular internet company that has used the active coside version of avena and naturally customers got good results. Then, they started putting the cheaper "non-coside" herbs into the formula. They even increased the total amount to make it look "new and improved" but of course more of the ineffective herb is meaningless. It's the cosides that count. The company in question even changed labels to "throw you off track." But coside percentages MUST BE STATED on the label... .com

Urtica Dioica, also known as Stinging Nettles, is an extremely interesting herb. It's not only been shown to reduce SHBG but it also lowers the female hormone prolactin. This is good news to anyone looking to stay lean and avoid the side effects of too much estrogen such as water retention and gynocemastia. Nettles has also been shown as an effective treatment for Benign Prostate Hypertrophy, due in part to the fact that it will suppress DHT (Dyhydrotestosterone). This is both good and bad. Although DHT is often referred to as the "bad" testosterone, it's also anabolic and necessary for libido and erectile function. So it may seem as if the use of Nettles may be working against your goals, but that's only if excessive dosages are used. (Over 500mgs a day)

It is, however, a better choice for the treatment of an enlarged prostate than the more common application of Saw Palmetto which just blocks DHT but provides no benefit in terms of lowering estrogen or SHBG -- both of which are also a factor in prostate health. When testosterone isn't bio-available to the body, it can still impart its negative effects on the prostate. By reducing SHBG, prostate disorders can be avoided while increasing free testosterone and potential muscle growth.



Larry