Date: 12/04/01 04:53 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: I'll restart then...
O.k Here I go again..I never realised that I was in demand LOL!!!
Some more info to chew over....I'll start with some basic scientifically
accpeted (I dont say proven becuase in science nothing is ever reall
solid fact!!!)...I'll update as often as possible so I wont force a load
of info down your throat on each post!!
This will all relate to hypertophy...yeah the nitty gritty!!!
factors affecting hypertophy!!!
...It seems pretty much solid that hypertophy is a form of
supercompensation as a result of the stimulus thats placed on the
musculature...theres like a million refernces for this...
I'll start with a few interesting facts that may make you sit up and
think a bit: during the average day the body turnsover (synthesis etc)
3-4 grmas of protein per KG of BW (Check out work by Balolgopal - sp???
and El-Khoury). Also, in the 'average' person muscle weighs 40-45% of
BW, (skeletal muscle = 50% of total protein)...Muslce is made up of
water and proteins in a ratio of around 4:1, 10kg of muscle = around 2kg
of protein!!!!!!!
Right then, if hypertophy is the response to stimuli, well this is based
on supercompensation as I maentioned a while back. If thats the case
then the growth is response to muscle breakdown/damage...when a muscle
fibe is overloaded it gets damaged particulalry during eccentric
contrcations...Muscle damage is massively mis understood, so I will
cover it in a bit of detail...
...the major molecular chnages that occur are purported to be due to
eccentric contractions (Protein syntheses etc)...
MUSCLE DAMAGE high tensile stress (as in eccentrcics) causes the weak
sarcomeres to pop, also leads to the adjacent sarcomeres to
pop...however this also affects the fibres metabolically: 1)Damages
Sarcoplasmic Reticulum, which may result in a loss of Calcium Iron
homestasis (Calcium helps fuel contrcations) and may result in a loss of
muscle fibres-yikes
2) Streaming, broadening and total disruption of the z bands
3) increase in temoperature of the muscle disrupting protein structures
Delayed onset muscle soreness... Causes: 1) connective tissue damage, 2)
muscle fibre shortening 3)Oedema Lasts - 24-48 hrs post exercise, fully
disappears by day 7
FORCE LOSS (of interest to the power guys!!!) for 3 days after intense
ex. there is an immediate devrease in max muscle force, why??? well
then: contractile element damage, altertaion in the sarcomere lengths
(results in less x bridges that can be formed) 3) Psychological effect
of pain and soreness...
This may not seem relevant to you at first but this pretty much
substantiates that intensity has to be monitored, you cant just go in an
train intense...plus it also makes me suspect that muscle growth isnt
just a result of increaased protein synthesis etc...
Ill leave this post here and continue on a new one...it gets more
physiological!!!
(
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17303)
Date: 12/04/01 05:12 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: I'll restart then...
The responses from training are specific to the type of training
performed hence the specificity principle...
The adaptation of muscle dictates that specific proteins are degraded
and synthesised...myofibrillar proteins increase qite largely,
mitochondrial proteins increase with endurance training!!!
consequently the increase in intracellular aminos, particularly
myofibrillar with protein degredation helps to replace the high
turnover...
....Also, there maybe a possible migration of the ribosomes to the
areas that are most affected by the tyoe or training performed (to
utilse the degared proteins)...
applications...
Well then if we are to use the info posted we can see that hypertophy
is the result of poetine synthesis increases as a result of protein
degredation...which is caused by muscle damage...the most muscle is
damaged during eccentric exercise (more tension generated - because
less motor unites are used so there is greater stress ion the
individual fibres)...stretching has indeed been shown to help increae
hypertophy... consequently, for short term succes then there must be
sufficiebt stretch in the contrcatile elements (for facilitation of
muscle damamge), and tension...consequenlty, there should be an
emphasis on range of motion (to ensure stretch) and eccentric
contrcation (for tension)for protein sunthesis ....
Higher volumes of work appear to elicuit the best results (rep ranges
of 5-8 and 10-12), for multiple sets....refer to the intensity posts
for a review on optimal intenisty...
I will be covering the practical side to a geater extent, this is just
a taster!!! any questions...feel free to ask.
(
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17314)
Date: 12/04/01 06:16 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...
O.k., I seem to be following you. To make sure
though...Supercompensation IS the way to increase hypertrophy,
however, the Supercompensation theory of beating the shit out of
your muscles isn't nec what we're looking for, but more of a
dual-factor theory?
Also, what did you mean by reps of 5-8 and 10-12 are the best? Which
is the best? - 5-8, or 10-12?
AnimalMass
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http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17340)
Date: 12/04/01 06:21 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...
Also, we want to imply full range of motion for the stretch,
eccentric movement (nagatives), (but not to the point of absolute
failure right? - ALso, how about time under tension?
AnimalMass
(
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17343)
Date: 12/05/01 01:21 PM
Author: AnimalMass
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...
Just wanted to pass along JohnSmith's input.
AnimalMass
"animal, concerning the single and dual factor training theories
you asked about earlier... i dont think the bodybuilding
community has altogether ignored the latter... in fact i think
that the HST that ******* has talked about seems to be taking
advantage of this principle.
basically the most real-world and practical advice i can give
you concerning the dual factor theory is this.
instead of thinking of each workout as one seperate "fatigueing"
session, followed by a seperate "recovery" session of a day or
two of rest... begin thinking in terms of weeks. in other words,
you have one, or two or even three weeks which are "fatigueing"
in other words you think of this time period just the same way
as some people think of one workout. you accumulate fatigue the
whole time, you never completely recover. then you have another
time period of recovery. this is another one, two or three weeks
in which you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity
and allow recovery to take place. personally i favor keeping
intensity high, drastically lowering volume, and slightly
lowering frequency. in any event the overall training stress is
lower.
so you have say two 3 week periods which you approach like you
would have approached two days, one a workout day and one a rest
day.
now, of course in programming for elite athletes it gets much
more complicated than thsi. you may also have a 6 month
"overload" period, during which you have a series of 5 week
periods each consisting of 3 weeks of hard work and 2 weeks of
lower stress training. then you may have another 3 or 4 month
period of "recovery" consisting of 1 week of "loading" or hard
work, then 1 or 2 weeks of reduced training.
all this may be superimposed upon 3 years of slightly harder
overall work, in other words slightly higher volume overall...
then 1 year of slightly lower volume. this fits into the fact
that the olympics are every 4 years and athletes want to hit
their highest performance at the olympics.
the greeks do 3 loading weeks followed by 1 unloading week
(approx 12 workouts a week during loading, and 9 workouts a week
during unloading, also all weights are lowered by about 10kilos
during the unloading week)... these are "loading" months, then
every 4th month is an "unloading" month consisting of only 1
loading week and 3 unloading weeks. close to a big competition
like the olympics... they switch to alternating weeks, 1 loading
week followed by 1 unloading week.
however, to actually program sets and reps... this is very
individual. what is unloading to me may be highly stressfull to
you. but this is how training is programmed for the majority of
athlets in sports other than BB and powerlifting. fatigue is
gradually accumulated and then gradually disipated...
i would encourage you or anyone else to take a look at the HST
training protocol... as it is the first BB specific program i
have ever seen that seems to be set up on these principles.
people doing it seem to be making gains, so i assume it is the
correct volume for a majority of bbers... of course individual
adjustment is usually required with programs like this.
personally... when adjusting volume for individuals i am lucky
in that i can use
testosterone/cortisol ratios from weekly blood
draws and also glutamine/glutamate ratios to assist in
determining the stress level of the training for an individual
athlete. this allows me to be pretty precise in loading an
athlete to his limit without crossing the line into real
overtraining... then determining the correct volume of training
for the unloading period so that recovry takes place without any
detraining. unfortunately i doubt any of you have the rescources
to do this or the expertise to interpret the data correctly if
you did have access to it.
HOWEVER... i do have some "rule of thumb" guidlines... during
loading, if you are capable of setting personal records... your
not loading hard enough. on the other hand, if performance falls
below 85% for more than one or two workouts in a row... then you
need to lighten the load. the length of the loading period is
also individual. start with one week to 10 days... after youve
gone through a couple of cycles experiment with 2 and 3 week
loading periods. very few people can handle a 3 week loading
period. i know i cant. howeer the bulgarians and greeks do, so i
know some great athletes can do it, and maybe some of you can.
as far as unloading... you should be approaching peak
performance after 7-10 days of unloading... you should have peak
performance somewhere between 14 and 21 days of unloading. you
dont always want to allow peak performance. you may want to
follow 2 or 3 consecutive loading cycles without every allowing
complete recover during unloading, if you are really advanced...
however i dont recomend this for beginners to this type of
training... load then unload long enough to set new personal
records... allow another week or two to get good and rested then
load again.
hope this helps explain how this is used in the real world...
sorry but its just impossible to get into sets and reps on a
specific basis... but if you copied the 8 week squat program i
posted several times a while back this is an example of this
type of training, and its a proven and result producing
program."
(
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17515)
Date: 12/05/01 02:11 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...
Interesting...I wasnt aware of HST before
...Its good that the dual factor theory is being integreated
into thinking...a Large proportion of research pertaining to
training is based on the one factor theory, hence a lot of the
fundamentals being based on supercomp...and overload...I have
always though there was much more to it personally,
...I will bump JS's advice simply put because he is correct...
...HST may work for you, try it..rember the individualisation
principle, tailor it to yourself as you know your body best...
...The majority of research speculates that within the rep
ranges of 5-8 and 10-12 the most hypertrophy occurs, dont take
this as gospel, chances are this is more related to TUT, and
extraneous variables than a specific no. of reps...I will
cover TUT next along with a few other things...
I will post back later...busy at the mo.
(
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/forums/...ssage_ID=17523)