Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

[ciobl]

Originally Posted by SWALE

This shows that all one need do is run a Medline search, and write what they found, to be considered an expert on the Message Boards. And for the writer to come to believe his own nonsense, that he is somehow an expert, while pounding on his own puffed-out chest, when he possesses absolutely no background in the subject matter. The only real point there is he is only compounding the damage steroids do to those who are naive enough to follow his lame advice. Yes, it's easy to impress the lay public. But making way amongst those of us who actually work in this field is a different matter.

can i post on this thread or i must be selected to do so ?

anyway...i don't want to show on the backcover of the book:


".......an indispensable guide to achieve the body of your dreams."
rob t. ( philadelphia )

".......a must-read for all newbies, the most updated book for all bodybuilders."
greg d. ( los angeles )

".........this book is great, my friends can't believe it !!! less than a month I feel like superman "
bob w. ( new jersey )

".......this is what the bodybuilding community waited for years. the only authority for anabolics."
anonymous ( competitive bodybuilder, california )


anyway...i can't stand usa-today with all its pages filled with color and i barely read the nytimes since a group was fired after misleading the readers.

[hooker]

SWALE:

Either refute my claims with journal citations and medical texts, or stop your nonsensical posting. I haven't seen one reference in any claim attempting to refute me....we have only your word that I'm wrong. Please...refute me validly, when you attempt to do so. I'm speaking in Washington D.C. at the T-Nation roundtable on Jan.14th, if you want to discuss this in person.

Funny that I posted a thread where Mr.Nashville said my PCT works and you ignored it. I wonder why? Oh...theres also a member here "Managament" who is on my PCT...maybe you should PM him to see how it's working? He said he loves it, feels great, and hasn't lost any strength...he's gonna try to get some bloodwork done too. Isn't the strength of a PCT program it's ability to retain gains and normalize the HPTA? And everyone who has followed it said it works for that! Sorry...I don't have the meaningless rubber-stamp-approval of a medical doctor to validate me...I only have real-world results. Because thats where I live...in the real world...where my ideas are tested and have proven to work time and time again.

Also...I read "SWALE's PCT" on 'Ology...it was so pathetic that he had to post it himself...in contrast, the Head Moderator posted my PCT Article there, and elsewhere, as well as my Aromasin article.

My work gets re-posted because people think it's good, and my theories get repeated for the same reason....his is posted everywhere too...but by himself....because nobody (well, almost nobody) else bothers to repost or repeat it.

There almost isn't a board on the 'net where he's not a member, or has been on staff, where someone actually posts his work.

Recognition in the field? I was offered a spot with a supp company doing R&D for their products (had to decline), and another (huge) company said that down the road (*or presently, if I had so me good ideas to pitch), I would possibly be able that for them! My field is performance enhancement, not HRT, and in this field, I am recognized. Sorry to dissapoint my nay-sayers.

[ciobl]

can i post on this thread or i must be selected to do so ?

we are lucky resumes were not around....when Einstein was looking for work.

[SWALE]

"hooker": Let's see now, I am supposed to prove your lame ideas DON"T work? Hmm...that is proving a negative, isn't it? I would never subject any of my patients to the idiocy you propose. "Finasteride" as "pre-PCT"? Need I say more?

You are mistaken, once again, in that it is YOUR responsibility to prove YOUR ideas. So far you have not done that at all. Could that be because what you propose has no basis in reality? I am merely pointing out massive inconsistencies based upon actual medicine, pharmacology, physiology, biochemistry, etc. AND the experience of treating literally hundreds of steroid athletes as patients. Anyone with true knowledge and experience in this area can do the same.

But at least you are clever enough to recognize the paucity of studies in this area. However, you obviously have no training in how to interpret a scientific study. I would suggest you undertake an entry-level class in same wherever there exists an MPH program.

You have missed the obvious point that your studies DO NOT back up what you claim. I have pointed that out repeatedly. So how can I prove, or disprove, that the studies make your claims when they clearly do not address the same patient population?

BTW, "references" taken from textbooks are never used in valid scientific papers.

You call my work "pathetic"? LOL. And I provided it--free of charge, BTW, as I do everything on the Boards (Ahem)--on Steroidology after so many requests for same. I guess you have missed all the Boards it has spread out to--even though I have not spent a minute updating it in a couple of years. Maybe I will now. But at least you are A LITTLE smarter now than a week or so ago, when you did not even know who you were trying to compare yourself to (and insult). You're just not the kind of guy who starts his brain before he puts his mouth in gear. Some scientist.

Your work gets reposted because there are so few people providing anything at all in this area, and because hardly anyone has the background to see your nonsense for what it is. But I will only refute your nonsense here at Meso. So you are free to try to fool others on the other Boards. Maybe no one there will know enough to point out what I have here. you think you are a big fish in a very small pond. I guarantee that if you stepped outside this particular arena, you would get shredded.

So, how about if you produce some actual lab values, proving your ideas? Or, at least, report back to us on which of the studies you address actually were conducted on adult males. You refuse to do even that much.

WOW! Mr. Nashville! I have thank you's from men who stood on the stage at the "O". Sheesh.

The "T-Nation Round Table" WOW! THAT is supposed to impress anyone? Why, you are practically a legend. How many expert physicians will be there? How about The Royal College of Physicians, where I have lectured on my protocols? Lord have mercy.

Actually, thank your lucky stars I am not going to be there, as I would wipe the floor with your sorry ideas.

I'm calling you out on your claim that any supplement company that has any hope of making it would hire you for "R&D". Why on earth would anyone do that? You have no training whatsoever in the fields associated with that position. Pay you, when they could hire someone who knows what they are doing? Right.

BTW, I do not think it absolutely necessary to have a degree, or even professional training, in order to be very good at this stuff. There are some lay persons around who could take most Endocrinologists down when it comes to this topic. Unfortunately, you are not included amongst them. Even sadder, you for some reason think you actually know what you are doing.

It is immediately obvious to me in the first paragraph of your paper that you are just a blowhard trying to impress people with facts you have copied from others. It is also obvious that you have absolutely no "feel" for how the Endocrine system works, and this is essential when synthesizing new treatment protocols. I'll set myself upon dismantling your silly work very soon.

I DO love exposing phonies and charlatans. But my real motivation is in trying to reduce the damage men do to their health while they are (still) choosing to use AAS. Following this character's advice will have exactly the opposite effect.

Young man, you simply are in no position to compare yourself to me. Frankly, you make a fool out of yourself every time you try. I have never seen a guy try to use such nothing accomplishments to make himself out to be some sort of an expert. But I guess if that's all you've got...

"He has delusions of adequacy."
--Walter Kerr

ciobl--Einstein wrote without references, too.

[hooker]

I have made referenced claims in my work, which soundly and strongly support my claims. You haven't made one such supported claim...not one reference or journal citation.

Proving a negative is impossible, usually, i.e. "God doesn't exist" is generally thought to be an impossible claim to "prove" but you can easily prova many negative claims "It is not the case that there is a car in my Driveway" can be proven by simply looking in my driveway.

Your logical skills are laughable, since you don't seem to even know the very basics; remember, I have a degree in the field. So maybe I can now lay claim to refuting your eggregious attempts at logic and argumentation, with the absolute authority you seem to think your MD gives you over medicine? Keep reposting your terrible work all over the net...almost nobody else will. There's your "industry recognition." Also...can I enquire as to what kind of statistics you have, personally? Since you think you can give better performance enhancing AAS advice than me, how many sports do you play at the elite level? Have you ever done anything of note physique or athletic wise? Please...list your various accolades in the area...I need a laugh. You are all sizzle and no steak...all smoke and no fire...stick to HRT, because if an athlete wants to improve his performance, he's gonna listen to me...My advice gives results, and I have been there and done that...I've won championships and coached championship teams, I've modeled for Ralph Lauren...Champion BB'ers and regular bodybuilders alike have used my methods with success. And I've used them too. And you? Well...I guess some 50-60 year old men finally got a hard on with your HRT program, a couple of times. Good Job. I'll just keep producing winning athletes and being a winning athlete, via AAS and other means...you can keep giving test to old men and claiming to be an expert on HRT. I'll just keep doing what I do...giving advice that works, and helping athletes achieve goals...oh...and writing about it.

Pick a claim I've made, and find proof that it is invalid, by way of counterexample from a reputable text or peer reviewed journal, or cease your pathetic attempts to discredit me.

[ciobl]

Originally Posted by hooker

, I've modeled for Ralph Lauren...

did Ralphie sodomize you ?

Originally Posted by hooker

I guess some 50-60 year old men finally got a hard on with your HRT program, a couple of times.

whoa, whoa not everybody, and even those can snap you in half like a toothpick

Originally Posted by hooker

I'll just keep doing what I do...

feeling the rubber on that swiss ball ?

[SWALE]

Once again, all this guy can come up with is nonsense. You make this so easy. Let's see: "Here is my new idea and you have to prove me wrong". What kind of science is that? That is just plain silly, to everyone here but yourself. Wow, how impressive for someone with a degree in Philosophy.

Nope, I only have two college Philosophy classes under my belt. Did 4.0 Philosophy in Literature, though. I guess, by your example, I can now proclaim myself an expert in Philosophy (at least I have taken a couple of classes in the area--as opposed to you), and argue same with world-reknowned experts in the field? LOL.

Hmm..you cannot properly evaluate a study (if you did, you would not be posting the tripe you are while trying to argue with me), so it is my job to do your research for you? I really don't think you are distracting anyone by sticking to this strategy of yours. You are so eager to try to insult ("claiming to be an expert in HRT"--I am beginning to think you are just plain addled), why don't you instead spend a few minutes actually dealing with the science involved? Because you can't. You would have to know something about the subject at hand to do that.

Where is your proof of any that you claim? You have not posted anything whatsoever which even comes close to that. Actually, I have posted all kind of simple facts from medicine, etc which refute what you claim. But you have not addressed any of it. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to, instead of constantly pounding on you chest, trying to impress everyone?

You really shouldn't try to insult one of the top Thought Leaders in this field. You are thereby proving not only do you not know what you are doing, you also do not know how to act. And I'd be especially careful about trivializing hypogonadal men--as your protocols dramaticaly INCREASE the risk of creating them. Why do I know that? Because I see it in my clinic every day.

Wrong again, I am a DO, not an MD. Once again proving you are not the kind of guy who researches anything, so he knows what he is talking about, before writing. This is a pattern with you.

Wrong again, I do not, have not, never will prescribe steroids. My job is cleaning up the mess charlatans such as yourself create. And I have done so repeatedly for guys who have followed EXACTLY the same advice you now give (even though you claim it is your own).

Actually, it looks like you are well on your way to prison. At the very least, you are practicing medicine without a license. Well thought out career choice, there.

Well, I must admit, pushing your tush at a camera does kind of impress me, though. I used to do it at the Kresge Art Center. Problem was, it was nude modeling (always cold in the room), and they didn't pay but minimum wage. Of course, I didn't do that nude modeling for the money, I did it for the EXPOSURE.

How many other inconsequential things are you going to post to try to cover up for the fact you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

So, you are STILL refusing to post which studies were actually performed on women? Come on, man, let's see it. If you have one shred of integrity, a whit of dignity, same will be included in your next post. We can then set upon the task of addressing the science involved, which you are so steadfastly refusing to engage in. Wait a minute, you DON'T/CAN'T do that.

Here's your lesson for the day: it is up to the inventor to prove the utilitarianism of the invention. And that is pretty hard to do in the face of genuine experts who long ago abandoned same.

[ciobl]

Originally Posted by SWALE

Once again, all this guy can come up with is nonsense. You make this so easy. Let's see: "Here is my new idea and you have to prove me wrong". What kind of science is that? That is just plain silly, to everyone here but yourself. Wow, how impressive for someone with a degree in Philosophy.

his next book will be titled "grey car: a reference guide"

Originally Posted by SWALE

Nope, I only have two college Philosophy classes under my belt. Did 4.0 Philosophy in Literature, though. I guess, by your example, I can now proclaim myself an expert in Philosophy (at least I have taken a couple of classes in the area--as opposed to you), and argue same with world-reknowned experts in the field? LOL.

[ciobl]

swale i think it was a bad idea to have an article feedback forum based on this....he had been better off by selling the darn thing and get it over with. this guy is a joke and always will be one.....i don't think it would be appropiate to disrespect him with any obscenity and so forth but...this guy is really a joke......

about his degree ? yeah right, i am very impressed........ "I can claim that the engine in my car is grey without making the claim that other engines are grey, and without also claiming that my car is grey."

this guy is 'amazin' just needs some orientation hehe, the potential needs to be unleashed. hehehe. maybe i'll talk to a 60 yr old that can help him out...

that's what's happening, nowadays you get a somewhat geekhead like himself, you give him access to medical databases throughout the internet: science direct, medline, elsevier, pharmacology, endojournals, read a couple ebooks here and there, that is it !!! there's not much to it. there are other materials out there from other writers that have their very own stamp of each author..........yes, like a seal that identifies each writer...

.....for example, you get somebody like hart, that talks about it without the jargon of medical terminology,....again, he doesn't follow at all any medical advice but his own experience yet he deserves credit since he is an original writer and one that must not be overlooked !
i give him, in the eyes of bodybuilding, all the credit he deserves ! he is a natural.
you get somebody like smrs or alr , they do show their stamp of originality.....as well.

this guy just dug out some information here and there and one thing he does since he is of no use whatsoever:

dug out stuff that science have no use for and brought it back from the dead. while doing so, he inadvertently forgot to separate all studies and specifically clarify which studies belong where and which ones did not...so now to pick up after himself the excremental residue and big mess left behind he talks more non-sense than the last time....i mean...everytime he writes something gets worse and worse.

[hooker]

Very Strong and Cogent remarks...still, SWALE, I noticed you haven't posted any references, nor disproven anything. You haven't picked a specific claim, and disproven it. The onus is on you, since all my claims are referenced, to provide counterexample (or show that my references are invalid, by counterexample) since proof has already been provided by me re: my claims.

See you at the Arnold (I'm in a booth signing copies of my book)...oh no..wait....see you at...ummm...the Olympia...no..wait..I won't see you there, either...see you at the T-Nation Seminar...oh..no...wait...I won't see you....ever...anywhere...

Because you aren't anyone in this "industry" you keep talking about and saying you are so important in.

Your industry is limp-dicked 70yr. olds on HRT. Which is what I suspect you are as well.

I won't see you anywhere champion bodybuilders, athletes or the like congregate...because you just can't help them, and aren't important to them.

And you certainly aren't one of them; but I am.

[ciobl]

not for too long...you'll see

[RhinoChaser48]

The use of a single successful test subject is not proof of anything. It suggests he has good genetics, but that's about it. There is a reason large scale clinical trials are done; not everybody reacts the same way.

I originally read this article with anticipation of something great, but as soon as I saw the abstract for citation number 27, I lost all interest.

[hooker]

There have been several successful tests of this pct. But only 2 are on the "boards." And insofar as references, sometimes we have to make due with studies on Rodents, Women, hypogonadal men, etc...I suggested scientist do their studies lower life forms than rodents awhile ago...like Mods, Vets, and staff & owners of Invite/Private boards....but I don't think any scientists have tried that yet...

[SWALE]

pwned.

[hooker]

Hot Tip:

When you know what you are talking about, you don't have to post your own work. People buy it from you and post it. Then other people read it, think it's good...and repost it.

You should try writing something decent for once instead of unreferenced conjecture and saying "Im a doctor, so I'm right"...maybe then, you wouldn't have to be the only person who posts your work? And maybe it would have market value over $0.

My articles are valid, and my theories have been proven useful and helped many athletes achieve their goals.