Rationale for the Use of Aromasin with Tamoxifen During PCT

[hooker]

Originally Posted by MANWHORE

Yeah why don't you two work together and stop arguing about your theories .. At least i am not the only 1 who thinks Test is not needed in cycles .. O yeah i think Grizz agrees too. ..

Bill and I aren't arguing...I think, about 85% of what we say, we are probably in agreement with each other...

If people focused on that, instead of the other 15%, they'd probably get alot more out of anything and everything he and I have to say.

But honestly, even in some cases where he disagrees with me (or vice versa), it's either simply opinion or the way it's phrased.

Of course, I'd be very willing to discuss a future project where we go over the 15% that we don't agree on...a friendly debate, maybe...or a collabrative project...

Either one would be fine with me.

[MANWHORE]

I put the smilie because i was just making a joke ... I read past the arguing parts anyway and just try to read any info work reading .. Something i can learn from.

[Truman74]

I'd be very interested in seeing the friendly debate, and in fact, I can't think of anyone who'd be opposed to it except Mr. Ll or AR. So, unless there's an objection, I think this would be a great idea.

[SWALE]

Truman--How can any debate--much less a "friendly debate"--ensue when it's always the same tactics by Roberts:

(1) Accuse anyone who posts simple fact (obviously in opposition to whatever nonsense he has written) of "misrepresenting" what he wrote (even when it is a direct quote).

(2) [when that doesn't work] Accuse the poster of creating a "straw man". That's getting old, too.

(3) [when that doesn't work] Try to attack the general character of the poster.

(4) [when that doesn't work, still] Go off on a totally obtuse tangent about how being a rugby player or how much weight he can lift, automatically qualifies him as an expert on Endocrinology, and/or how no one who has not actually done massive amounts of steroids could possibly know anything about them. Think of all the scientists in the world. I love that one!

(5) [actually sprinkled all through, perhaps starting from step #1] Liberal use of childish name calling.

These sure are the tactics of someone with intellectual competence in the topics at hand, eh?

It is a well established fact that Roberts ALWAYS refuses to engage in any meaningful dialogue with anyone who knows more than him about this stuff. And that includes anyone who knows anything.

[HRTguy]

SWALE,
You're knowledge and input is refreshing.

I am personally gyno sensitive. I also use AI's and SERMS very carefully and minimally as I have found that over-use can actually cause increased estrogen sensitivity personally.

My personal approach is to use compounds that do not aromatize and during times when estrogen levels are higher, and offset this environment by increasing my androgen levels (using non aromatizing androgens). When the goal is to increase HPTA function I have found that short term estrogen suppresion (4 weeks) with tapered doses of either an AI or SERM are effective without causing rebound. Recently I have been using methyl-ATD (in a tapered fashion) which I have found to work very well without rebound.

One other thought... I feel that many people who are using androgens for non HRT purposes are still using way too much. There are many effective ways of creating a highly anabolic environment with much lower doses which also greatly reduces side effects including estrogen conversion.

Many users don't realize that as the dose of a given androgen increases, the anabolic effect increases in a non-linear manner. I remember one individual who claimed he was taking 4 grams of testosterone per week. He didn't realize that with a poor diet and training that he was gaining significantly less than others using 1/10th of the androgens he was using. I realize this is an extreme example, however hopefully people get the point.

I can understand the desire to develop an extreme physique. I can't understand using a chemical approach that is less effective and more harmful because of the "more is better" mentality.

[hackskii]

So, has anyone used the Aromasin and tamoxifen approach?
Better yet has anyone used the Aromasin/tamoxifen/HCG approach?

I would like to hear some of your opinions on the article.