Alcohol and Piss Test

[MANWHORE]

If someone drank about 12 beers on Friday afternoon will it show up on a fire department piss test monday?

thank you very much

[prodigy06]

if 1 beer takes 1 hour to clear your system then 12 beers would take 12 hours so my guess is no.

[role model]

Originally Posted by MANWHORE

If someone drank about 12 beers on Friday afternoon will it show up on a fire department piss test monday?

thank you very much

No,
it would take about 24hrs for it to clear completely.
What prod said is true but when you drink a lot it starts to pile up if you know what I mean and takes somewhat longer.
Cuz if you drank 12 beers in 12 hrs and got pulled over by the cops I'm sure you would fail the breath test.

[MANWHORE]

So how about when I use to drink about 1 quart vodka a day would i be clean by mon if my last drink was friday afternoon?? 5 days of drinking vodka that way .. suppose ... seriously too

and thank you both for replies

[Stormbringer]

Manwhore, some places are still using ones that can not detect ETOH after 24hrs of use. Unfortunately, most government agencies, including Police and Fire have started using what is called an ETG test which can detect alcohol metabolites up to a week from the last drink. Many Courts, Probation and Professional monitering agencies are using this now and it is becoming the Standard all over my neck of the woods. This is has been going on for about a year or so around here and it really has been getting people in a lot of trouble because of course they do not give you advance notice that they have started using these new tests. Be careful.

[Bigkarch]

not sure why they test for alcohol metabolites as its not illegal to drink...sure if your drunk on duty or have a high alcohol content at work..not sure if they test can detect alcohol up to one week...and scientifically, an average body loses .02% of alcohol per hour. so if your content is .20% which is pretty drunk, it should take about 10 hrs to leave the body. it also depends on your body size...how much of a drinker you are...and some say, how much water you drank if its a piss test.

[MANWHORE]

this is for a fireman who signed his last agreement not to drink because of his drinking problem. They sent him to rehab once already and he shouldnt be drinking at all but lets face it, We all know it's not an easy habit to break especially when you have that gene for it

How is everyone BTW?

[Stormbringer]

Manwhore, this is exactly why I am telling you this. The ETG was designed exactly for this reason. For example, I have worked with several Professional Monitering agencies for years like, Police and Fire Peer Support, Lawyers helping Lawyers, Physician Intervention Programs etc..., etc... and they all use these test. Most of these are people that their license to practice is in Jeopardy and they have to submit to these for 5 years or give up their license. Very harsh, but think of the alternative! You would not believe some of the cases I have handled for these Professional in crisis. And Police and Fire are some of the most risky. The test has nothing to do with the bodies ability to metabolize etoh. The test looks for the ETG metabolite that the liver only produces when etoh has been consumed. It takes about a week for the metabolite level to go back to an undetectable level in the urine. So the days of drinking Friday night being safe on Monday is over if they are using these tests. Chances are, if you have signed a "No Mood Altering Substance" contract due addiction issues in the past, they probably have the ability to test for this. They are even testing for ephedrine now out here on the East Coast. Believe me, I am in Court on these issue all the time and they are not playing. Tell your friend he needs to plant himself in some AA meetings before he looses his career. I could tell you some horrifying stories about drunk surgeons, lawyers strung out on coke, cops that get in accidents drunk on duty and commit suicide, counselors that began using with there own clients. I could go on and on. I am not judging them at all, I am the one who tries to help them. It is aweful what these things do to peoples lives like I am sure we all already know. The State and the Courts almost always say "Due to your profession we hold you to a higher standard" and slam them with serious legal repercussions. Glad to see you back posting.

[Bigkarch]

Originally Posted by MANWHORE

this is for a fireman who signed his last agreement not to drink because of his drinking problem. They sent him to rehab once already and he shouldnt be drinking at all but lets face it, We all know it's not an easy habit to break especially when you have that gene for it

How is everyone BTW?

now that makes sense..not sure if the dept. will use the above test...I have never heard of anyone using this test, and it will have legal problems, if fought correctly...dont know how expensive it is, or how popular. nation wide....but can they tell the difference between alcohol...such as nyquil, cough syrups that have it etc...lets say on my days off, I drank a lot of nyquil to sleep due to a cold every nite....and took cough syrup daily due to a cough...

[Bigkarch]

here is some info I was concerned about that test and reliability...whats the difference in drinking nyquil the night before a test vs a 12 pack 5 days ago...




EtG Urine Alcohol Test Unreliable Warns Federal Agency
A widely-used urine alcohol test is unreliable warns the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. The EtG urine test is used to test compliance of people legally prohibited from drinking.

The federal agency has issued a warning that the test is so sensitive that it can falsely read positive for alcohol consumption if the test-taker has used an alcohol-based hand sanitizer, taken medication containing alcohol, or consumed foods containing alcohol. For example, the test might report alcohol consumption if a person drinks orange juice that has been in a refrigerator too long.

The Wall Street Journal reports that “The warning represents a victory for the growing number of people who insist they flunked the EtG test despite having abstained from liquor. Their cases, replete with polygraph exams and other evidence of sobriety, convinced even the scientist who pioneered EtG screening in America that the test is prone to so-called innocent positives. Whether the agency's warning will help these people reclaim the jobs that some lost after flunking EtG tests is unclear. In any case, the warning is a blow to the credibility of the $4 billion-a-year urine-testing industry, which introduced the EtG test two years ago as offering fail-safe proof of alcoholic-beverage consumption.”

Because of its inaccuracy, "legal or disciplinary action based solely on a positive EtG ... is inappropriate and scientifically unsupportable at this time," the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration warned. It recommended that a positive test result be used as the basis for a broad investigation into possible alcohol beverage consumption.

This recommendation, if followed, would appear to protect both the public welfare and the rights of test-takers.



Reference:
Helliker, Kevin. Federal agency says urine-alcohol test isn’t totally reliable. Wall Street Journal, October 5, 2006.

[Bigkarch]

here is another good article....




When technicians, pilots, or other licensed professionals get nailed for an alcohol addiction problem, they are often required to enter a rehab program as a condition of employment and/or maintaining their airman certificate. This typically involves attending alcohol withdrawal meetings, regular urinalyses tests for alcohol use and other monitoring elements. Breathalyzer tests, although less reliable, are also used. There are variations in rehab programs but they all include some type of frequent random urine testing for the presence of alcohol. This, of course, is in addition to standard random drug and alcohol testing for holders of safety sensitive positions in the aviation industry.

The problem with testing for alcohol presence has been that alcohol dissipates quickly, usually within hours, and therefore cannot be detected in your system after only a few hours. This presents a problem for the authorities that need to check on the people in rehab. Obviously, if one has consumed alcohol and is under the influence at the moment of the test it can easily be detected…but what if that person had a few drinks over the weekend or last week?

A new test has come down the pike that can solve that problem. The test is called the EtG test.

Ethyl Glucuronide (EtG)

EtG tests are currently being administered to those in rehab programs in some states in the search for the use of alcohol. Since alcohol is legal to use outside one's employment, these tests are generally confined to those people who are in a rehab program where they are not supposed to drink any alcoholic beverage.

This new test does not test for alcohol. It tests for the presence of ethyl glucuronide (EtG) that is produced when alcohol metabolizes in your system. The bad news for the clandestine drinker is that it can be detected in your system for up to 80 hours after drinking. Saturday and Sunday's gin and whiskey can easily be detected in Monday or Tuesday's urine test.

It's reported that sobriety enforcement is big business. The new test…is called the gold standard of urine testing…because it is so accurate. Industrial drug and alcohol testing has created a huge business that only recently has come into existence. The urine testing industry alone is alleged to be a $4 billion a year business. The new test costs $25 and the old one was priced at $7. Thus the new test is an important new source of income for the testing industry. They are pushing for its use by government agencies that license workers such as aviation mechanics, pilots, health care workers and others. Routine urine testing, as we all know, is required in broad areas of government and private enterprise where alcohol (and other drug) addicts are in recovery (rehab) programs. For example, outside the aviation business, statistics show more than 4,500 physicians are subject to drug testing where their urine is monitored regularly. Likewise, many lawyers are also involved with monitoring for alcohol addiction.

This test is also being pitched to Courts and Probation Departments that routinely demand alcohol abstinence from DUI defendants.

Recent news articles about a popular movie star being arrested for DUI talked about the necessity of his attending AA meetings and abstaining completely from alcohol as a condition of his probation. This test would be an effective deterrent to any clandestine drinking while on probation.

The Bad News

The testing folks leave out some important facts however. The EtG test can detect alcohol even in people who never touch alcohol! Sources say that the slightest trace of alcohol in your system can be detected now from such mundane things as foods, medicines, personal care products and some popular items we use to clean our hands. They all have some alcohol.

Critics say this test is flawed because it even picks up any inhaled alcohol fumes and treats this inhalation exposure the same as a drink. Authorities defending the use of the test maintain that any alcohol ingestion, in any form, could trigger a return to alcohol use by an addict. Therefore they should refrain from ingestion of any kind of source for alcohol.

Federal government agencies have recently found that the EtG test will pick up alcohol in whiskey, beer or a hand cleaning product called Purell. These hand cleaning products can put small amounts of alcohol into your system that are enough for positive test results. Because of the severe penalties, like loss of jobs, some Feds say the test has to be refined further before total acceptance. We all recall, for example, how poppy seeds can give a false indication of opiate use in some people. But the fact is that the test is being used in some states now.

Some observers are concerned that as this test is used more and more it will adversely affect people who are not problem drinkers. They argue that it would be unfair to demand that the urine of people being tested be free of any trace of alcohol because there is no listing of all products that contain alcohol. Various mouthwashes and common cold remedies contain alcohol. Furthermore, it can also be found in ice cream, cakes, fruit, salad dressing, insect spray, meat, auto fuel and many other substances that we come in contact with or eat daily.

Unintended Consequences

The physician who started the use of this test maintains that an unfair test could convince addicts to avoid entering a rehab program voluntarily. He claims that even incidental exposure to alcohol could create higher levels of EtG than he imagined. He says that health care workers are particularly vulnerable to the test because of their huge use of hand sanitizers. Alcohol-based hand cleaners are routinely used in factories, hospitals, schools and other health care facilities. Needless to say they are also used extensively in the aviation industry. If one were to use these products and be subject to urine testing for alcohol use they would most likely provide positive tests without knowing the reason.

The same doctor is now asking states to refrain from taking any action against an employee or licensee based on a urine EtG test alone. He says other factors should be considered.

Be Careful

If you are required to participate in an alcohol rehab program as a condition of your further employment or probation in a DUI conviction be aware that the test is out there and may be used in your case management. Be sure and ask what kind of test is being administered to your urine and is it the EtG test? If it is, pay special attention to what you use and eat before you test. It could mean your job if your test shows positive for alcohol on one or more tests.

[Bigkarch]

if I was in this boat and got tested...I would fight this tooth and nail for my job...like I said, I drank two bottles of nyquil the last 24 hrs, because I havent sleep in two days due to my cold..I was delirous and needed some relief, the nyquil helped...prove me wrong boss

now with that being said legally speaking, being a former alcoholic myself...it could be a good deterent.....dont use the system to get drunk vs trying to get sober....go to your aa meetings..get a sponsor...hell go to a doc and get some antabuse pills that make you get sick if you ingest ANY alcohol...its a serious disease that will ruin your life......

[role model]

Originally Posted by MANWHORE

this is for a fireman who signed his last agreement not to drink because of his drinking problem. They sent him to rehab once already and he shouldnt be drinking at all but lets face it, We all know it's not an easy habit to break especially when you have that gene for it

How is everyone BTW?

Lets understand one thing, There is no alcohol gene.
Just like there is no smoking gene or heroin gene if you can't stop using those.
It's an addiction and a mental habit that is very hard to break.
If he keeps it up he will eventually get fired, trust me, I drank everyday for almost 20 years
and lost my job at Harley Davidson for the exact same thing.
I never drank on the job but came in with hangovers and smelling like alcohol from the previous night every morning and got fired.

[Bigkarch]

Originally Posted by role model

Lets understand one thing, There is no alcohol gene.
Just like there is no smoking gene or heroin gene if you can't stop using those.
It's an addiction and a mental habit that is very hard to break.
If he keeps it up he will eventually get fired, trust me, I drank everyday for almost 20 years
and lost my job at Harley Davidson for the exact same thing.
I never drank on the job but came in with hangovers and smelling like alcohol from the previous night every morning and got fired.

hangovers are just as bad as being drunk..your not in your right mind..

[role model]

Originally Posted by Bigkarch

hangovers are just as bad as being drunk..your not in your right mind..

I'm not complaining about what happened to me, I just say beware to Manwhore's buddy cuz its coming his way also.
The Job I have now is 10 times more enjoyable than the job I had at Harley and I haven't had a drink in almost 4 years.

[Stormbringer]

Big Karch, I have used this exact defense in Federal Court when testifying for cases involving this. I have always been able to work around the PO's PSI reports and even the Dept of Crim Just Services lab results for urine assays. I can shoot holes in about anything. What keeps getting these guys in trouble is like the article mentioned you posted above, is when the use it as a tool to further scrutinize these clients during there case management. These clients then get double call ins for urine monitering, costs double, even may be asked to submit to blood. Hell, Probation peeps around here are doing dna and hair testing now. I go back and forth with my own personal thoughts on this. Seems to be getting a bit Orsen Wells to me. But then again, one of the last out of control clients I worked with was an incredibly depressed Atomic Submarine Commander whose wife just left him and he was drinking a fifth of Vodka and popping Valium like candy!

[txjustin]

I agree with the above post, he will eventually get caught and get fired