Bill C. for president??????

[big rob]

You all thought I meant Clinton didn't you.....

I MEAN COSBY MOTHERFUCKERS..........

I see I missed the thread since I was outr and it got deleted. Too bad. I will just have to voice my opinion now..... Oh and for those of you that are sensitive, I will watch my language.....

I find it absolutely hillarious that 90% of the black community has disowned Bill Cosby for speaking the truth. It is so fucking typical of "afro americans" to get all bent out of shape when they hear anything they do not want to hear. It's even worse when it comes from one of theirs that has made something out of his life. Keep on bitching motherfuckers, ya just look dumber by the minute. Lets disown Bill as a black role model and start looking up to non english speaking ignorant ass crack dealers. Thats actually a perfect plan. However, when that happens they will just blame the WHITE man for being behind it. Some people will never be happy because they are too happy being miserable.....

I hope my opinion does not get me banned again. In all honesty, I am tired of walking on egg shells so I could really care less. If I have offended anyone, then fuck me I'm a racist scumbag piece of shit cracker peckerwood trailer park livin swamp cooler havin dog walkin motherfucker. But on the bright side, I am still _ _ _ _ _..........

[Neodavid]

I think it's more that you are so darned focused on blacks. You bring up race so regularly, and in the middle of things non-racial. It's like Gentlestrength and his gayness.

NO ONE likes to be categorized and/or smeared, by anyone. It's not just blacks... People are indivuduals, and as soon as you talk about a 'group', you dehumanize people.

Let's try a close to home example...

Racists are all small minded people with self esteem issues, sublimating their inadequicies by using another race as their scapegoat. It's been proven that racists have small penises, or with exception, simply can't get it up unless putting someone else down.

Why do you think in terms of groups? People are people, not races. Character, value, integrity, these things are developed by choices made in individuals.

Any time you bring up a 'group' of people and speak, unless you are incredibly careful to qualify your words, you make a logical error known as 'generalization'.

Some time ago, maybe you were hurt by, or accepted a lie by an authority whom you feared, who hated blacks. Whatever the reason, it lies in your past, and the only way to deal with it is to find the root of it, and choose to be 'you' rather than someone else, and disagree with that lie, or get healed from that hurt.

Regarding race, you come across as a complete moron without a heart or even the ability to think in a straight line. You don't want to hang onto this thing forever, it's just wasting your time, your valuable time. It's got you by the short hairs.

What good does your complaining do? It's like everywhere you go, you fart, and it makes you feel better, but it makes everyone else aware that you stunk up the place out of selfishness, or disease. Either way, you are stigmatized.

For me it's like you are handicapped in a wheelchair wearing a sign that says, "I must put down blacks every 10 minutes, so please forgive my inability to have a useful conversation or contribute beyond that 10 minute limit".

Originally Posted by big rob

You all thought I meant Clinton didn't you.....

I MEAN COSBY MOTHERFUCKERS..........

I see I missed the thread since I was outr and it got deleted. Too bad. I will just have to voice my opinion now..... Oh and for those of you that are sensitive, I will watch my language.....

I find it absolutely hillarious that 90% of the black community has disowned Bill Cosby for speaking the truth. It is so fucking typical of "afro americans" to get all bent out of shape when they hear anything they do not want to hear. It's even worse when it comes from one of theirs that has made something out of his life. Keep on bitching motherfuckers, ya just look dumber by the minute. Lets disown Bill as a black role model and start looking up to non english speaking ignorant ass crack dealers. Thats actually a perfect plan. However, when that happens they will just blame the WHITE man for being behind it. Some people will never be happy because they are too happy being miserable.....

I hope my opinion does not get me banned again. In all honesty, I am tired of walking on egg shells so I could really care less. If I have offended anyone, then fuck me I'm a racist scumbag piece of shit cracker peckerwood trailer park livin swamp cooler havin dog walkin motherfucker. But on the bright side, I am still _ _ _ _ _..........

[big rob]

Let me just clarify a few things so you do not live the rest of your day in ignorance....... Bill Cosby NEVER mentioned blacks in his speach. It was the blacks that automatically took it upon tghemselves to assume it was aimed at them. All he said was lower income areas. There are plenty of white people that live in low income areas that talk like morons as well. However, it is the black M.O. to jump up and cry foul whenever something negative is said.

As far as my sounding like an idiot etc... That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Just as I am. Either we just don't see things the same or you are too cowardly to speak up. Either way I could care less.

It is not that I am so focussed on blacks. It is that there is such a double standard going on and so many people just turn the other cheek, it makes me sick. Ya know what happens to sheep??? They get slaughtered. Step up or stand in line and die.

You need to think about this. I do not only hate blacks. I hate any white that acts black, mexican etc just because he thinks it's cool. In a lot of ways, those people bother me more then some blacks. Also, I have met a few black people that are educated, friendly etc... So I do not hate them all. Most, yes, all no.

The only thing that lies in my past is this fact. In my family, you would have to go wayyyyyyy back to find a relative that actually hated blacks and wished them harm. Those people are surely there but long dead without a doubt. However, on the other hand, in most if not all black families, there is some auntie, uncle or other that hates whitey and voices that daily. I lived in a world where the blacks hated me and I hated them, bottom line. That just opened up my eyes to the way they act, treat women etc...

Now, I think this would actually be a usefull conversation if you could get over your dislike for me and stick to the issue.

[Neodavid]

you:
Now, I think this would actually be a usefull conversation if you could get over your dislike for me and stick to the issue.

me:
I don't dislike you, I don't know you. Forming an opinion about liking you or not would be impossible for a rational human being. Forums are a lot different than real life. In real life, I probably would like you as a person very much.

I despise dishonesty or people who can't speak their minds plainly, who hide their faults and hatred behind masks. I find your hatred and prejudice refreshing in that way.

you:
Let me just clarify a few things so you do not live the rest of your day in ignorance....... Bill Cosby NEVER mentioned blacks in his speach. It was the blacks that automatically took it upon tghemselves to assume it was aimed at them. All he said was lower income areas. There are plenty of white people that live in low income areas that talk like morons as well. However, it is the black M.O. to jump up and cry foul whenever something negative is said.

me:
"low income" is still a group. No one likes to be termed "Low income". No one likes to be included as part of an uncool group, slammed by Bill or anyone else (he is a comic genuis, and I respect him incredibly, but here he is being rather pompous... talking about a group, complaining about their language, and not thinking past his own prejudices. Long story, I'll save you the details).

you:
As far as my sounding like an idiot etc... That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Just as I am. Either we just don't see things the same or you are too cowardly to speak up. Either way I could care less.

me:
We don't see things the same way.

you:
It is not that I am so focussed on blacks. It is that there is such a double standard going on and so many people just turn the other cheek, it makes me sick. Ya know what happens to sheep??? They get slaughtered. Step up or stand in line and die.

me:
Dude, you talk about color and bring it up 10 times more than anyone else on the entire board, minimum. You have a problem. It's wasting your time.

you:
You need to think about this. I do not only hate blacks. I hate any white that acts black, mexican etc just because he thinks it's cool. In a lot of ways, those people bother me more then some blacks.

me:
You hate people with guile, who wear masks, and who have no understanding of their value as an indivudual, so they seek to fit in socially.

That is a despicable thing, and I hate it more than most, but you shouldn't focus on the people, they are like you, sick, they have a problem... (grin) Don't hate the person who has cancer. Help cure him, by pointing it out even...

But don't assume so much, the surface isn't always real. Some buddies and me will do weird stuff like go out as a goth group, or whatever, just to be funny and make our point about groups that way.

Love the people, hate the foolishness that makes them act that way. It's becuase someone in thier lives didn't love them for who they are, so they seek love elsewhere.

Think about it. Come on, try... you can do it.... (grin).

you:
Also, I have met a few black people that are educated, friendly etc... So I do not hate them all. Most, yes, all no.

me:
So stop bitching about them. You always go to blacks. Blackness has nothing to do with it. You hate other things, and you turn that hatred on people. You are simply wrong.

People are people. All people are the same, if you speak of groups. EVERY nationality, ANY group (including weight lifters), has some other idiotic group of people who choose to stereotype.

Weight lifters, what a bunch of gay ass fags, trying to be cool cause they got to make up for small dicks...

Roid users, what a horrible bunch of fools, criminally messing with illegal drugs, hurting our children and ruining sports with their influence....

People who think like that are small minded losers. You are bigger than that, so I'm bitching at you.


you:
The only thing that lies in my past is this fact. In my family, you would have to go wayyyyyyy back to find a relative that actually hated blacks and wished them harm. Those people are surely there but long dead without a doubt. However, on the other hand, in most if not all black families, there is some auntie, uncle or other that hates whitey and voices that daily. I lived in a world where the blacks hated me and I hated them, bottom line. That just opened up my eyes to the way they act, treat women etc...

me:
You answered my question, thanks. You logically associated your treatment by them, internalized it, sublimated it, and now it's squeezing out of every pore, at every opportunity.

Okay, cool. That's enough for our session today.

(heh heh)

I have news for you, in many different places, people of any given color (including white), have treated someone else badly, of another color, and this foolishness only spreads, until someone with the courage and understanding, stands up and says, "Hey, you know, I will choose to forgive, even those who do not deserve it. I put them in God's hands, and ask him to bless them."

I stood and watched a woman forgive her parents like this, and her arthritis, which had her in a wheelchair, disappeared, and she got up cured.

I'm not talking long term, I'm talking immediate.

Trust me, unforgiveness is a horrible cancer that will kill YOU, and not make a dent in the problems any other race has.

When you forgive, and when love enters where there was hate, my friend, you life changes in such amazing ways... I was healed of a prostrate problem when I honestly (thought I had) forgave my abusive alcoholic parents.

But that was only the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot more benefit... relationships are more fulfilling, peace comes to your heart, and you have a HELL of a lot more fun in life.

[pumppumppuk]

i have 2 questions:


big rob what part of the country do you live in?

Neodavid what part of the country do you live in?


ps. i live in memphis.

[Chip Bronson]

since i was involved in the cosby 'debate' earlier, i'd like to add that i have nothing against any race, blacks included. i work with, hang out with, play music with and get along with many blacks. on the board i think guys like nute and b-boy and altmo (who's not on that much on the new meso) are very standup bros. they are warm and funny guys with whom i've had very nice exchanges. i respect them for their achievements and like them because they're quality people. you can have a discussion with them that doesn't deteriorate into a racial slur-fest. i wonder why that is? is it because they're nice guys who don't have a chip on their shoulder? could be... guys like plmuscle and batista are just looking to get into it and, if that's how you're gonna be, i'll indulge you for sure my friend. and not because you're black, but because you're fucking trouble-making idiot piece of shit.

'love the people, hate the foolishness that makes them act that way.' - neodavid

neo, i see where you're coming from brother and what you're saying is a very warm sentiment indeed but, practically speaking, how do you separate the individual from his behavior? isn't the individual who he is as a result of his behavior? aren't our actions the currency by which we make our social exchanges? i'm not trying to be antagonistic here either. i'm just trying to understand and internalize what you're saying properly, as opposed to yes'ing you blindly, and i'm having a hard time at this point in time.

[Neodavid]

Chip said:
neo, i see where you're coming from brother and what you're saying is a very warm sentiment indeed but, practically speaking, how do you separate the individual from his behavior? isn't the individual who he is as a result of his behavior? aren't our actions the currency by which we make our social exchanges? i'm not trying to be antagonistic here either. i'm just trying to understand and internalize what you're saying properly, as opposed to yes'ing you blindly, and i'm having a hard time at this point in time.

me:
Man, that gets right to the heart of the matter. I suppose it's the most natural question in the world, but for some reason I'm impressed as hell that you brought it up. I guess no one really thinks about that, or for some reason won't bring that out in conversation.

I think I struggled with this one the most of anything in the last 5 years of my own spiritual oddessy. I'm also 44 years old, which doesn't make my progress exactly stellar. But then, that does makes it easier to not give myself false credit, invoking humility rather than pride.

I especially had a problem with this, because I relied on my mind too much most of my life. I tried to figure everything out and understand it, and because I was successful, I thought that was the way to go.

I say that because though I can now explain the reasoning behind this, understanding it is not the answer. As you said, it needs to be internalized, and this is a matter of the heart more than the mind.

By the way, just because we don't get to judge anyone anymore, doesn't mean we don't get to respond to their actions. They DID something, said something, and probably hurt someone. Sometimes that needs to be addressed, or they will never change, never see the truth, never grow.

AND, our own heart needs to be honest, needs to express itself, needs to connect and touch others. Others need to know how we feel. Why else live?

The first part is, we need to understand the difference between judging and discerning. Judging someone else is condemning them from our perspective. Imagining our perspective is sufficient to judge another person, is pride and egomaniacal. And yeah, almost all of society spends most of its time (wastes) it's time judging others. See all the cop and judge shows currently going. Soap opera's exist for this, we get to hate the bad guy, etc.

I often find the answer in babies.

Looking at a baby, I see innocents and beauty, helplessness, need, and infinite honesty. They cry when upset, they gurgle when happy, they hide nothing.

Secondly I find the answer in my own failures.

I fuck up HUGE, yet somehow, I want people to know I really didn't want to hurt them. I was being selfish perhaps, or even innocent and did something that hurt them.

The thing is, I never want them to assume I had an evil motive, and if they see that I DID, I still want them to forgive me, because now I am sorry.

Also, there are times inbetween awareness, in which I am not sorry, and think I did not wrong. I then want them to be patient with me, and even love me, returning good for my evil.

Logically, if I apply this to myself, I must apply it to others. I cannot be a hypocrite. Being a hypocrite is appalling to everyone, even hypocrites. In fact, hypocrites hate other hypocrites more than anything.

Practical life has taught me that returning evil for evil has never helped, not once. I think I feel better for a bit, but honestly, my heart is hurt in the end, much more... I feel the effects for months, years... until it is fixed.

Maybe this all goes back to 'he that is without sin, cast the first stone'.


Now if I were God, it would be easy. He knows the heart, understands every action, every choice, and every hurt this person has endured. He knows exactly what is going on.

So logically I must leave that up to God. If one doesn't believe in God, then maybe what I'm saying won't help. Don't know...

Anyway, I've been blessed to know some people who's actions are often horrible, but who's hearts I know intimately. I've found no matter how insane their actions looked to me, their heart was always in the right place, OR, they always SO regretted any pain they caused others...

Imagining that, and each person you meet as a baby, helps most of the time. But then there are those times the person hurt you, said they are glad they did it, and say they would like to do it again, and take pleasure in it...

I see these people as ultimately brutalized to the point of their own hearts being insane, and not knowing anything about love. A person who does not know love, cannot be held responsible for not loving.

Let me illustrate with another man's analogy, Dr. Wayne Dyer.

If you ask a man for an orange, and he has none, would you be angry with him for not giving it to you?

If people live in pain and agony of the heart, having been hurt, brutalized, or drained to nothing, how can you ever be angry with them?

In order to be angry with someone and judge them, one would have to know their hearts their entire lives. This is why it's SO much harder for family members to forgive one another, they have a false sense of knowing the others motivations, of knowing them intimately.

The hard part of this is dealing with the pain, but only if you don't understand the process, and why expressing YOUR heart is absolutely necessary.

here's where I have to explain that the basis for all of this, is that everything in the universe is meant for one thing, to allow loving relationships.

God, or the universe, if you prefer, has one ultimate goal, that love may prevail, that relationships may prosper, that we all get to know one another in positive fulfillment... (man that sounds SO stupid and cold compared to the romance, excitement, fun, and thrills involved!)

Someone hurting you means then, that you MUST express your feelings, your heart, so that they have a chance to respond in kind (but if not, you must have patience, you have done your part).

Goodness overcomes evil. A soft word puts out the flames of anger, yada yada yada... there are a million truisms saying this.

But not one says evil helps evil, turning it good.

Hurting others after they have hurt you is what animals do... Humans, people who have hearts, feelings, and character, are above this.

So the practical results of everything is summed up in,

Love is patient, love is kind, love hopes and believes all things, love does not judge, etc. (1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter).

Logically, practically, and emotionally, therefore, it is never good to judge anyone else, lest we be judging ourselves, and we should always return good for evil, and always remember that evil comes not from the person, but from his own experiences, which may lack any intimate fullfilling love altogether, and that in the end, God is the only one who can judge.

Also, it just plain is selfish and never helps in the end, to be mean to someone else, or judge them.

We just don't know, can't know, and have to believe and hope the best.

THEN, I found, my own heart is free of almost all pain, pure, happy, and full of creativity and joy. I enjoy people, etc.

But I still express myself and get angry and do everything on the outside, so my heart and it's faults are never hidden... with the caveat, that many people will only get hurt if I express myself, and I want to love and help them, not hurt them, so I don't express myself according to my feelings alone, but with the full awareness of the other person, their heart, and their maturity level, etc.

This all has to be me, being true to my heart, not my mind. My mind messes everything up. When I go by my feelings, that is when I succeed at what is important. That's where relationship is fulfilling and real.

Your heart, and the other persons heart, must meet, and love. They must be real, intimate, transparent and honest to the core. the more we reach that, the more satisfying, the more beautiful our relationships become.

Only by being filled with love by God, can we have love (our bad of oranges) to give to others. People try to do this on their own, and are sorely disappointed in the results... but you can't give out what you don't have inside you.

The world is dying on a starvation diet of mind, and what everyone needs is love. The thing preventing that is judgment.

Therefore, foregiveness, and understanding we are all exactly the same when we are babies, will help us be kind and patient one to another.

That doesn't mean you don't belt a guy for insulting your wife, it means you seek love in every case, following God's spirit, and sometimes he does have you physically respond.

In any case, you must be true to your heart, else one will think they are perfect. Making mistakes is the greatest of blessings to bring love and humility to a life.

Giving that same grace to others, blesses us.

But returning evil for evil, hurts us.

So judging others by actions can never help, but discernment and love, always will. Some people will have to go to prison, a safe place where they can work out their hearts problems, I realize. And sometimes you have to give up and walk away from a relationship, when you have nothing more in you to give. Those are all practical realities. It's not on us to save the world, just not judge anyone, and rather, love them no matter what. have mercy no matter what. Be as kind and peacable as we can be, always asking God for more.

I love confrontation, like this one with Rob. I find it is a great way for me to show love, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun and call him names and stuff, because otherwise, I'd be talking down to him, not treating him as I want to be treated.

No one is better than anyone else, and everyone knows how we want to be treated. That's the golden rule... do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.

Good grief I hope this doesn't come across like a sermon. sheesh...

Thanks for asking that question bro. Good one.

[Neodavid]

Wisconsin

Originally Posted by pumppumppuk

i have 2 questions:


big rob what part of the country do you live in?

Neodavid what part of the country do you live in?


ps. i live in memphis.

[Chip Bronson]

thanks for taking the time to write this out neo. i really hope some of the other bros take a moment and read it as well. sometimes we, at least i do, need a good slap upside the head to remember what this thing called life is really all about and your post did that for me.

'... and always remember that evil comes not from the person, but from his own experiences, which may lack any intimate fullfilling love altogether, and that in the end, God is the only one who can judge.'

'God, or the universe, if you prefer, has one ultimate goal, that love may prevail, that relationships may prosper, that we all get to know one another in positive fulfillment...'

these quotes (no, they're not corny) pretty much sum up my belief that we are all bound together by some life force and when we put good out into the world it comes back to us just as when we put bad out, that also comes back to us. and your baby analogy is right on the money. we are all good until a part of us becomes 'spoiled' by life's experiences. anyway, i've nothing else to really add as your comprehensive post has really covered all the bases nicely. thanks again.

[moneyman]

Big Rob, im not here to pick a fight with you but stop and think for a min. Its not right for any group of people to lay hate on another. I saw you spoke about black family members saying "hate the white man" but if you really think about it, they have a reason to dislike "The white man". Im not saying its ok but come now look at the history behind all of this. Even to this day they have a reason to hate the white man. I see it all the time, "Black man" gets pulled over by a cop, it takes 3 squad cars to write him a ticket. If its a white person theres most likey 1 cop. I wish both "races" would stop the bull shit and help make this place a better place to live. Do I believe its all the "white mans" fault no, do I believe its all the "black mans" fault no. But I do believe people who think like in any "race" are the problem. As long as you speak the way you do RB there will always be some one on the other side who hates you for it. So where does it end?? The end can begain with you.

[Neodavid]

Amen dude, well said.

I am sorry to use the word god, it is so small... when most people think of god it's a terrible perversion.

We are all brothers, except the guys who choose not to recognize that, and live as the center of their own universe, judging all others, including God.

It's a gigantic horrible thing, but honestly I think that's what hell is, the result of a man's choice to be in the place of God, judging others. God lets him have what he wants, but he doesn't realize how lonely it is, how unsatisfying.

Love is everything, and if it didn't sound corny and cheap, I'd be saying that all the time. You got to show it to people or it's just words anyway.

Blessings man

Originally Posted by Chip Bronson

thanks for taking the time to write this out neo. i
really hope some of the other bros take a moment and read it as well. sometimes we, at least i do, need a good slap upside the head to remember what this thing called life is really all about and your post did that for me.

'... and always remember that evil comes not from the person, but from his own experiences, which may lack any intimate fullfilling love altogether, and that in the end, God is the only one who can judge.'

'God, or the universe, if you prefer, has one ultimate goal, that love may prevail, that relationships may prosper, that we all get to know one another in positive fulfillment...'

these quotes (no, they're not corny) pretty much sum up my belief that we are all bound together by some life force and when we put good out into the world it comes back to us just as when we put bad out, that also comes back to us. and your baby analogy is right on the money. we are all good until a part of us becomes 'spoiled' by life's experiences. anyway, i've nothing else to really add as your comprehensive post has really covered all the bases nicely. thanks again.

[cutup]

I agree with BIg Rob on the some things he mentioned, one being the double standard. There is a double standard in this country. For example, We have a Mrs. America pageant where all races can compete. We also have a Mrs. Black America where only African-Americans can compete. I believe that is a big double standard. If the caucasians had a white only pageant it would be racist.

However, I don't think because there is a double standard we need to hold every single person of that race accountable and throw out personal attacks upon them. There are a lot of good african americans, caucasians, asians, mexicans, etc. in this world. There are also a lot of piss poor people that belong to all of these races that are going to use a "cop out" no matter what happens to them. For example, "He got that job over me because they had to hire a black female." This is a cop out I hear all the time. No matter what race you belong to if you will follow what your heart says you will not need a cop out to achieve success.

By the way Neo, great post and some very touching stuff.

[nick e. guns]

Great posts Neo but they are taking up entirely too much of my free time! J/K, good stuff man.

[mr_meanor]

fuck clinton, thats right I said it, now carry on....

[Manuel_Hung]

I would say it is the other way around....most blacks agree with Cosby.....