government job question

[tonyton]

whats up ladies and gents. Does anyone know what type of tests (mental and physical) that a government job intalils? in general..not like the cia or fbi..or anything serious like that...do they do tests for aas? Hair samples...lie detectors..ect..???

[zman12]

Well as far as I know they do not test for aas or do any hair samples. Also no lie detector tests.

[brooklynheight]

yes-I know for a fact that FBI uses a polygraph

and one of the questions is "have you used any illegal controlled substance
within the past 7 years"

your screwed

[Peace Division]

It depends what gov't job you're applying for, is it federal, state, local. Also, I think they need to explain to you PRIOR to your test date what they are testing for.

[Turf Toes]

I just got hired by the federal gov't so I just went through all the testing. They DO NOT test for 'roids unless your boss recommends that they do. Then they send your urine to the olympic testing site in the state of WA. As of right now they only take urine samples but it is to my knowledge starting next year that they will be taking skin, hair and saliva samples.

For the lie detector, it all depends on what job you are applying for. I had to take it and a physical agility test of running 1 mile under 10 minutes, 10 pushups and 20 situps (a joke).

[Phreezer]

Ive beeen working for the GOV now for about 5 years... I have never had to take a U.A. (although I did sign an agreement that they may test me at any time) or a polyGraph. They no longer give the cival service exam either.

If you make it past a first interview you will have to submit fingerprints and allow authorities to run a back ground investigation on you. Next they will check your college transcripts. For some positions they will run a credit check and they will also closely examine your references.

It's pretty much like any other job now (with the exception of the b.g. check) You go through an interview process, and in some cases you will be asked to put on a presentation (usually powerpoint) to a panel of judges who will rate your performance against other applicants. (This is for any position higher than a GS 9... I think the post office could give two shits less). It takes about 3 sometimes 4 interviews and about 1-3 months.

[tonyton]

Originally Posted by Phreezer

Ive beeen working for the GOV now for about 5 years... I have never had to take a U.A. (although I did sign an agreement that they may test me at any time) or a polyGraph. They no longer give the cival service exam either.

If you make it past a first interview you will have to submit fingerprints and allow authorities to run a back ground investigation on you. Next they will check your college transcripts. For some positions they will run a credit check and they will also closely examine your references.

It's pretty much like any other job now (with the exception of the b.g. check) You go through an interview process, and in some cases you will be asked to put on a presentation (usually powerpoint) to a panel of judges who will rate your performance against other applicants. (This is for any position higher than a GS 9... I think the post office could give two shits less). It takes about 3 sometimes 4 interviews and about 1-3 months.

thanks for all of the input fellas...much apprieciated...
They already told me that they are going to run a credit check and asked me if I have ever been convicted of a felony...so I am sure they are going to check up on those two things...shit they are going to check my colege transcripts? That is gonna give them a giggle or two...D(economics) ,D(computers applications),A(history of sports)...fuckin college! what a joke

[Joker]

Originally Posted by tonyton

thanks for all of the input fellas...much apprieciated...
They already told me that they are going to run a credit check and asked me if I have ever been convicted of a felony...so I am sure they are going to check up on those two things...shit they are going to check my colege transcripts? That is gonna give them a giggle or two...D(economics) ,D(computers applications),A(history of sports)...fuckin college! what a joke

I live in the Northeast, and the job conditions suck up here--unless you have a government job. I get random piss-tested at least 4 times a year, but I'm in a safety sensitive position so it's understandable. And they definitely don't check for AAS.

HOWEVER, my training partner just got an application for the Atlanta PD. Right on the application, it asks if you currently use AAS, if you EVER have used AAS, which ones, how long, and even if you ever drove around with them in your car. And it aslo says you will be subjected to a lie-detector. This is getting ridiculous. I think all cops, or at least the ones working the toughest beats, should be jacked out of their skull. Instead, they get "sensitivity training".

Joker

[Turf Toes]

I had to go through the background investigation like Phreezer said. Which also included a polygraph. Let's just say I am in the law enforcement side of the feds.

I am also shining proof that the polygraph is a joke and a bunch of B.S. I was asked if I had every done illegal drugs including steroids. I said no and it came back that I told the truth and passed the poly. I've been doing 'roids for 6 years. As a matter of fact I got a shot just hours prior to my interview.

[Rod]

Originally Posted by tonyton

whats up ladies and gents. Does anyone know what type of tests (mental and physical) that a government job intalils? in general..not like the cia or fbi..or anything serious like that...do they do tests for aas? Hair samples...lie detectors..ect..???

Depends on the position and agency. The question is too general to give a helpful answer.

[moralanimal]

I had the wonderful experience of going through a full security clearance. I am also a psychologist and administer psychological tests including polygraph and am trained in microexpressions (non-verbal lie detection). Much of the time the tests are used more to see if you fit a personality profile that will serve as a good fit for the job. This means you can't lie b/c you don't know what they are looking for and more importantly the most used tests (MMPI, PAI, Inkblot) all have scales to determine if you were not being truthful or defensive. If your job does require psych tests your best bet is to tell the truth- you won't stand a chance at beating it. Even with coaching it is very difficult to beat and I see people try and do it all the time. As far as people passing the polygraph; people claim they do it but those with this type of persoanlity are likley to send up a red flag on the MMPI and Inkblot as it requires a special type of personality. It is not unheard of but rare.

[Turf Toes]

moralanimal, Is microexpressions something that was just started and is taken with the polygraph, or has taken the place of the polygraph? I know some places now use the CVSA (voice test) now which I heard isn't very reliable. As far as I knw, the federal government only uses the standard polygrapg, but I could be worng. That's kind of interesting, so you can actually tell someone is lying solely off their facial expressions?

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by moralanimal

I had the wonderful experience of going through a full security clearance. I am also a psychologist and administer psychological tests including polygraph and am trained in microexpressions (non-verbal lie detection). Much of the time the tests are used more to see if you fit a personality profile that will serve as a good fit for the job. This means you can't lie b/c you don't know what they are looking for and more importantly the most used tests (MMPI, PAI, Inkblot) all have scales to determine if you were not being truthful or defensive. If your job does require psych tests your best bet is to tell the truth- you won't stand a chance at beating it. Even with coaching it is very difficult to beat and I see people try and do it all the time. As far as people passing the polygraph; people claim they do it but those with this type of persoanlity are likley to send up a red flag on the MMPI and Inkblot as it requires a special type of personality. It is not unheard of but rare.

Moranimal... Where did you get your polygraph technician certification? I've been seriously considering getting my certification and contracting my services out. I spoke with a poly graph tech and he stated that makes around a 100K year.

[moralanimal]

No CVSA is different from micro expressions. Voice stress analyzers won’t stand up in court based on Heilbrum’s guidelines and US Supreme – Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals. They simply lack validity due to the lack of research at this time. Some feel voice stress is useful (cost effective, less training needed, more efficient) but it still needs to prove itself. Micro expression make use of a coding system that analysis’s facial muscles to determine emotional states (anxiety vs happiness, etc.) and deception. People don’t just smile when they are happy A normal facial expression lasts roughly 2 to 4 seconds. When a person is lying they will initially flash the true facial expression for .25 to .5 of a second and then cover it up with another expression to be deceptive. They will also usually add distress signals (for example omega lines, wrinkles in forehead, etc.) and activators (hand and feet movements). This is an oversimplified explanation and I you can’t use microexpressions as your sole data point. If you are interested, Paul Ekman did a lot of the research (he also has 2 books written for general consumption- Telling Lies and Emotions Revealed). You have picked up on microexpression but just didn’t know what they were. It is those times when you just know someone is lying or telling you they are happy when they really are not.
As for my polygraph training, much of it came with my PhD requirements. The additional course work that I needed the government sent me for (DoD). Unfortunately that school is not open to the public but the schools that are, give an equal education if not better (all held to the same standards and requirements). That is great that you are interested in it. An easy place to start is www.polygraph.org Find the link on the site that lists the state licensing boards (if your state is not listed look under state associations). They will also have schools listed; hopefully one is in your area. As far as making money, the sky is the limit. It all depends on how you market yourself and to whom. If this is what you want to do then you may want to look into personality tests (MMPI, PAI, Rorschach (inkblot), PCL-R, 16-PF). Some of these require a lot of education and others only need minimal training. Good Luck!!!!