Test for GH

[thick]

dont know if this has been covered since I was gone. Sounds like there may be a test for GH. A lil surprise for the olympics. What do u guys think

[big louie]

Originally Posted by thick

dont know if this has been covered since I was gone. Sounds like there may be a test for GH. A lil surprise for the olympics. What do u guys think

if its true there is going to be a lot of disqualifcations this time around..

[thick]

no shit. They were hinting around that they might have one but wouldnt say for sure.

Originally Posted by big louie

if its true there is going to be a lot of disqualifcations this time around..

[esco]

you think they realy have one or are using the possibility as a deterrent(sp)?

[thick]

i dont know. the guy was sneaky about it. i am 50/50 but leaning towards yes

Originally Posted by esco

you think they realy have one or are using the possibility as a deterrent(sp)?

[big louie]

i also heard a few months back that they may have one but i think its bullshit.. there is no way they could keep it that quiet..

[Bob Smith]

From my understanding there has been a test for GH since before the Sydney Games, but the IOC chose not to implement it.

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by big louie

if its true there is going to be a lot of disqualifcations this time around..

I have never heard of such a test for exogenous...How in the hell would that happen ? This isnt like the test/epitest levels...Since when is there a way of determining levels ? NEJM performed a study a few yrs ago that part of what made a world class athlete, was the unusually high levels of hormones they created and released...

[Rex Feral]

Originally Posted by Quasimoto

I have never heard of such a test for exogenous...How in the hell would that happen ? This isnt like the test/epitest levels...Since when is there a way of determining levels ? NEJM performed a study a few yrs ago that part of what made a world class athlete, was the unusually high levels of hormones they created and released...

The test is ready for Athens. It has only recently reached fruition as a project, last month. It was not available before then. The test they have ready detects GH up to 36 hours out. They have another that detects up to 84 hours out. The latter is not ready, but will be soon, so they are talking about using it retroactively like they have said they were going to do w/THG, using frozen urine samples at a later date. They still won't confirm or deny if the test that is ready will be used in Ahtens. Either way, 36 or 84 hours of cessation will not be significant in terms of performace enhancement. Only stupid athletes will test positive on GH in Athens, on either test, whenever they do it, if they do it. This is well known & they will be prepared. The quest for a test for GH was abandoned when it was obvious they would not have one ready for Sydney. Instead they focused their efforts on EPO testing, which they now have. They then went back & perfected GH testing.

Rex.

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by Rex Feral

The test is ready for Athens. It has only recently reached fruition as a project, last month. It was not available before then. The test they have ready detects GH up to 36 hours out. They have another that detects up to 84 hours out. The latter is not ready, but will be soon, so they are talking about using it retroactively like they have said they were going to do w/THG, using frozen urine samples at a later date. They still won't confirm or deny if the test that is ready will be used in Ahtens. Either way, 36 or 84 hours of cessation will not be significant in terms of performace enhancement. Only stupid athletes will test positive on GH in Athens, on either test, whenever they do it, if they do it. This is well known & they will be prepared. The quest for a test for GH was abandoned when it was obvious they would not have one ready for Sydney. Instead they focused their efforts on EPO testing, which they now have. They then went back & perfected GH testing.

Rex.

WTF.... you say :

"The test is ready for Athens" but then in the same post say "They still won't confirm or deny if the test that is ready will be used in Ahtens." How do you know there is a test ready ? How do you know what the IOC and international community wont admit too...

There is "NO TEST FOR THE DETECTION OF EXOGENOUS HGH " according to the NEJM.

I ask the question again...This isnt like the test/epitest levels...Since when is there a way of determining levels ? NEJM performed a study a few yrs ago that part of what made a world class athlete, was the unusually high levels of hormones they created and released..."

What data do you have REX FERAL that predicates a statement that such a test exists?

[Rex Feral]

Originally Posted by Quasimoto

WTF.... you say :

"The test is ready for Athens" but then in the same post say "They still won't confirm or deny if the test that is ready will be used in Ahtens." How do you know there is a test ready ? How do you know what the IOC and international community wont admit too...

There is "NO TEST FOR THE DETECTION OF EXOGENOUS HGH " according to the NEJM.

I ask the question again...This isnt like the test/epitest levels...Since when is there a way of determining levels ? NEJM performed a study a few yrs ago that part of what made a world class athlete, was the unusually high levels of hormones they created and released..."

What data do you have REX FERAL that predicates a statement that such a test exists?

It was reported by Reuters last week. The challenging part of the question is not if the test exists or not, because it clearly exists, its is how do they validate a test for exogenous GH. Remember, we quit using cadaver derived GH somehwhere in the mid 80s in the U.S. Since then all GH has been rHGH. It is created by E Coli. So clearly rHGH is not HGH exactly as one is created by the human body & the other by genetically engineered bacteria. HMMM? I wonder if there is a way we can tell the difference? Logically, there has to be. And it turns out there is.

I made a typo in the post before, I'll edit it here. The second test for HGH which they are talking about using retroactively, just like they did w/ THG, detects up to 84 DAYS out, not hours. That clearly is a concern for some as the IOC just announced last week that they "may implement" this.

OK here goes.

There have been two approaches to developing a test for abuse of recombinant hGH (rhGH), indirect and direct.

Direct tests (actually measuring the hGH in the circulation, by blood test) are made difficult by the similarity of rhGH to naturally occurring hGH and also by the short half life (~15 minutes) of the hormone. Further, hGH levels fluctuate considerably during the day and in response to exertion.

Indirect tests measure levels of proteins affected by hGH levels. These effects can be longer lasting, but also can be influenced by injury, age, gender and ethnic background.

Read on to find out how these problems are being addressed.

1. Indirect

The GH2000 consortium (funded by the EU and IOC) investigated the use of surrogate markers as indicators of rhGH abuse. GH exerts most of its effect by increasing the levels of a protein called IGF-1, which circulates bound to proteins called IGFBP3 and ALS. The concentration of all three of these proteins is highly hGH-dependent.
Several other proteins have also been found to be hGH-dependent. These include PIIIP, ICTP, osteocalcin and PICP. Moreover, the profile of increases in the levels of these proteins elicited by rhGH administration differs from that seen in response to hGH increase caused by exercise.
Finally the pharmacodynamic endpoints of these changes are much longer than the half-life of hGH itself;PIIIP and osteocalcin are the most promising candidates here, showing elevation above pretreament values for up to 3 months.

References: J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. (2000) 85, 1505-1512 and J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. (2000) 85, 124-133

2. Direct

Unlike rEPO, rhGH does not have conveniently different biochemical markers from its natural counterpart. However, circulating hGH changes into a variety of subtly different derivatives, or 'isoforms', while rhGH does not - it remains homogenous. The major isoforms of hGH are termed 22-kD (the form corresponding to rHGH),20-kD, acidic hGH, fragmented hGH and dimerized hGH. There exist specific assays for each of these isoforms.
rhGH will only light up the 22-kD assay. If an athlete is taking rhGH, their 22-kd levels increase greatly but their levels of all other isoforms will remain the same. 22-kD normally constitutes 48% of total hGH in the circulation. This result has been verified in studies involving more than 500 blinded samples, whereupon all subjects who had received rhGH within 24 hours could be identified.
Obviously, given the short half-life of hGH the window for this method of detection is only 1-2 days.

Ref. Lancet (1999); 353, 895

Rex.

[HHH]

Good to see you back around again Rex.

HHH

[Rex Feral]

Originally Posted by HHH

Good to see you back around again Rex.

HHH

Big H, how have you been bro? Its good to be back. Things have changed some here. Man its been hell since last October. I'll have to tell you about it someday. Anyway, I just got "normal" computer access back. If you've talked to THL you know where I've been. Anyway bro, thanks for the kind words, I'm still straight, coming back. I have to run and hit back @ Gold's Venice. Good to hear from you bro, talk to you soon.

Rex.

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by Rex Feral

Big H, how have you been bro? Its good to be back. Things have changed some here. Man its been hell since last October. I'll have to tell you about it someday. Anyway, I just got "normal" computer access back. If you've talked to THL you know where I've been. Anyway bro, thanks for the kind words, I'm still straight, coming back. I have to run and hit back @ Gold's Venice. Good to hear from you bro, talk to you soon.

Rex.

I am reading the IOC website, along with some new agencies, and any hGH testing has NEVER been certified, and according to MSNBC in an interview with Connor ,heres the quote

" Human growth hormone, or hGH, works like an anabolic steroid, building muscle mass and helping athletes recover from training. Standard drug tests are unable to detect it, but scientists are working to develop a reliable test."

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4314328 )

they will undoubtedly have a test at some point for the Growth, but it aint coming anytime soon.

This is a scare tactic for the athletes, IMO. Thanks for the post Rex -

[Rex Feral]

Originally Posted by Quasimoto

I am reading the IOC website, along with some new agencies, and any hGH testing has NEVER been certified, and according to MSNBC in an interview with Connor ,heres the quote

" Human growth hormone, or hGH, works like an anabolic steroid, building muscle mass and helping athletes recover from training. Standard drug tests are unable to detect it, but scientists are working to develop a reliable test."

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4314328 )

they will undoubtedly have a test at some point for the Growth, but it aint coming anytime soon.

This is a scare tactic for the athletes, IMO. Thanks for the post Rex -

That article you posted is from Feb. bro. I told you, this was just announced. Reported by the university & by Reuters 12 days ago. They already knew what to look for from the 2000 project, all they had to do was go back & prove it. They feel that they have done enough blind studies to provide evidence in court on the 36 hour test. They know the 84 hr. test works they just don't have enough hard evidence to validate it yet, so they're saying 6 months. More than likely they still have some operational issues with the test given the short amount of time that has passed since they validated the 36 hour test & the start of the Olympics. Its obviously much easier to validate a test where they can draw the sample one day post administration than it is to validate one that requires testing 90 days post administration. I don't think it is any diabolical plot on their part. I mean its been known for 4 years now that this was coming. If they are fully prepared to use it, they will. I mean there can't be more than 1 lab in the world @ the moment who could run a GH test. If not, I think it will be due to much greater issues than them hatching a plot to scare people. I would say that they would not go back and test frozen samples 6 months from now, but they did it w/ THG, so why not w/ GH. They're not playing w/ this shit anymore, its not like the old days.

Rex.