22 yrs old-total test 165 ng/dl

[J DUB]

I came off a cycle of Tren (400mg/wk) about 2.5 months ago and then used Clomid post-cycle @ 100-50mg/day for 30 days after. Like a moron, I did not get my blood checked before the cycle since I hadn't used AAS in about a year (I,of course,tell others to do this), but I did get it done 3 days ago. Everything, including cholesterol, was well within normal range except Alkaline Phosphatase (137 u/l) and total test (165 ng/dl). The blood was drawn at 3PM.

I strongly suspect my test was low before I started the cycle, and fear I might be in a bit of trouble as far as getting it back up. I guess that is what happens when you use too high of a dose and don't stay off long enough .

I realize it hasn't been that long since I came off, but surely Clomid would have brought my T levels above 165, especially considering my age! That's the T level of a 90 year old man. I hoped I would never have a need for this forum, but unfortunately I might have to spend some time in here, as having low T is not fun and I need to get it back up.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? I was thinking just to take more Clomid, but I might try to see a doctor first.

[love_en]

I have heard of HTPA being restarted by prolonged administration of clomiphene. By prolonged, I am talking about 60-90 days. If not, welcome to the club. What was your cycle before the Tren? I have heard that Tren is something like Deca in terms of progesterone effects. Progesterone is being experimented with as a male birth control, because it is so good at shutting down the HTPA.

[J DUB]

I hadn't done a cycle before this last one in a year. Back then, I would usually go with 1g test/wk and 50mg d-bol per day, and sometimes throw in 5-700mg tren/wk. I would usually run this for 6-8 weeks, take around 4-6 weeks off for PCT, then start again.

Tren does shut down the HPTA pretty hard, but 165 total T after clomid!? I guess my best option now is to go with the Clomid again for longer, which is what I was thinking in the first place, and then get blood work done again. If it is still low, I might have to pay the doc a visit.

[love_en]

I hope everything works out. Be glad you are not in Hawaii. Doctors here do not treat hypogonadism and conversation is over if they think you are looking for AAS or if you were using AAS. BTW was this last cycle Tren only with no test and HCG. Swale does recomend proactive treatment to prevent testicular atrophy. But it is possible that you would end up hypogonadal in your lifetime, cycling simply taxed the system and brought it on sooner. I am not a bodybuilder, but being hypogonadal forced me to learn endocrinology.

[maxzax]

You should also get your LH, FSH, E2 and total Estrogens measured as well.

[Cryptochid]

Elevated Alk Phos was a side effect for me of oxandrolone. Bone disease was suspected with biochemistry and further investigated showing such effects clinically.
Sice re commencing TRT, the elevated Alk Phos isnt yet resolved, but slowly coming down

[mranak]

Most important test that you need to have done is free testosterone.

[Annularnos]

Tren is the worst for HPTA suppression, bar none. The doctors are going to tell you to wait it out. That will most likely work, but will take a very long time and you will be miserable. Any tests you get will really be a waste of time and money at this point....it's blatantly obvious what your problem is. Bloodwork will serve to confirm however. I would try the following:

1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 100mgs *Clomid ED and 20 mgs *Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After the first 3 weeks, discontinue the HCG and continue with 50mgs *Clomid ED and 20 mgs *Nolvadex ED for and additional 3 weeks. Never use Tren again.

I apologize to all for posting this here, but hey, the guy needs help.

[mranak]

Never take more than 1,000 iu of hCG at a time. I agree that hCG might help him out but that is a bad regimen. Better to run it at 500iu/day every day than 1500iu three times/week.

[Annularnos]

Originally Posted by mranak

Never take more than 1,000 iu of hCG at a time. I agree that hCG might help him out but that is a bad regimen. Better to run it at 500iu/day every day than 1500iu three times/week.

I realize that according to Swale, anything more than 500iu's/day may possibly cause too much aromatization....the above procedure will work however....it's been tried and trued by numerous steroid athletes. If you feel more comfortable doing 500iu's/day for 3 weeks then that's fine. True, the 1500 iu's 3x/week is a high dose, maybe 1000iu's 3x/week will do the trick...I doubt it though. You aren't going to experience any testicular desensitivity over 3 weeks. The whole idea here is to use a high dose of HCG to wake up the testes. HCG use for TRT versus PCT will vary in dosing. Some athletes use 5000-7000iu's/week!

[Annularnos]

Originally Posted by J DUB

Tren does shut down the HPTA pretty hard, but 165 total T after clomid!? I guess my best option now is to go with the Clomid again for longer, which is what I was thinking in the first place, and then get blood work done again.

Using Clomid without the prior/concurrent use of HCG is not very effective if your testes are shut down....which yours, no doubt, are.

[mranak]

Originally Posted by Annularnos

I realize that according to Swale, anything more than 500iu's/day may possibly cause too much aromatization....the above procedure will work however....it's been tried and trued by numerous steroid athletes. If you feel more comfortable doing 500iu's/day for 3 weeks then that's fine. True, the 1500 iu's 3x/week is a high dose, maybe 1000iu's 3x/week will do the trick...I doubt it though. You aren't going to experience any testicular desensitivity over 3 weeks. The whole idea here is to use a high dose of HCG to wake up the testes. HCG use for TRT versus PCT will vary in dosing. Some athletes use 5000-7000iu's/week!

Better to use 750iu ED than 1,500iu 3 times/week. You get more hCG this way, yet the regimen is safer and more stable.

[Annularnos]

Originally Posted by mranak

Better to use 750iu ED than 1,500iu 3 times/week. You get more hCG this way, yet the regimen is safer and more stable.

Yes, after further review, I agree.