Adrenal Thread

[wildfox]

Originally Posted by marianco

14. needing coffee or stimulants to function

Marianco, coffee is such a prevalent habit, and for me it's 3 cups a day.

Would you say that in general one could always benefit from giving up coffee all together, or is it really ok to have one? Or is the picture just too complex to expect benefits from changing that one factor?

Thanks,

WF

[marianco]

A word of concern about self-treatment without physician monitoring:

Unlike some of the other treatments for adrenal fatigue, taking hydrocortisone (including Isocort or adrenal extracts) can be dangerous.

Taking excessive amounts can shut down the adrenal glands, giving the person essentially Addison's disease - which can be fatal if left untreated. It is like running a car engine's battery down until it is dead.

Unfortunately, it may take at least 2 years repair and restart the adrenal glands once this happens. And sometimes, it can't be restarted at all - leaving the person with a permanent disability.

Some people's tendency to think that if something works, more is better. This would be dangerous when it comes to treating the adrenal glands. More is clearly not better.

[SPE]

Originally Posted by marianco

A word of concern about self-treatment without physician monitoring:

Unlike some of the other treatments for adrenal fatigue, taking hydrocortisone (including Isocort or adrenal extracts) can be dangerous.

Taking excessive amounts can shut down the adrenal glands, giving the person essentially Addison's disease - which can be fatal if left untreated. It is like running a car engine's battery down until it is dead.

Unfortunately, it may take at least 2 years repair and restart the adrenal glands once this happens. And sometimes, it can't be restarted at all - leaving the person with a permanent disability.

Some people's tendency to think that if something works, more is better. This would be dangerous when it comes to treating the adrenal glands. More is clearly not better.

I definately agree that more is not better. I have been self treating, however. What I've heard is that if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose. Thoughts?

[1cc]

Originally Posted by SPE

I definately agree that more is not better. I have been self treating, however. What I've heard is that if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose. Thoughts?

I am on 5mg hydrocortisone once daily in the morning and it is sufficient for me.

[SPE]

Originally Posted by 1cc

I am on 5mg hydrocortisone once daily in the morning and it is sufficient for me.

Why are you on it? Have you had your cortisol checked? My am cortisol was at 17 and I am doing ok with 20-25mg/day.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by SPE

Why are you on it? Have you had your cortisol checked? My am cortisol was at 17 and I am doing ok with 20-25mg/day.

I did Saliva cortisol a while back. It indicated I was low in the morning, noon, and before bed. I have found that taking hydrocortisone in the morning, which is the time when the adrenals are most taxed, is best for me. I found, doing this, it was not necessary for me to take anymore for the other times of day. I also take 25mg DHEA, which I believe has been the most helpful to me, perhaps more so than the H/C.

[Vforcer2]

I worked my way up to 20 mg a day of Isocort, and had to stop due to the development of acne on face.
I have no idea why. I was thinking I must have been overdoing it, and have been considering starting again at a smaller dose. I did worry that I might be shutting down the adrenals.

I have been diagnosed with stage II adrenal fatigue per my salivary cortisol tests. My N.D. told me to continue on the Adrenal extracts I have, and supplement with 50 mg DHEA.

I have been loosing some hair and am not sure if it is the DHEA or my Armour dosing.

[1cc]

I forgot to mention that drinking salted water helps tremendously. I do not drink any water that is not salted. If I do, I will start to have low adrenal symptoms within a day or so.

Marianco,

What is your opinion of using fludrocortisone to help maintain salt in the body. I have read some place that fludrocortisone does not work well in adults. Is this true?

[SPE]

Have you noticed a difference with the isocort?

[marianco]

Originally Posted by 1cc

What is your opinion of using fludrocortisone to help maintain salt in the body. I have read some place that fludrocortisone does not work well in adults. Is this true?

Fludrocortisone (Florinef) is used to treat Addison's Disease. It is a highly potent medication with properties of both cortisol and aldosterone. It acts on the kidney to conserve sodium and excrete potassium. It can be highly dangerous to use unless closely monitored by a physician.

Note that Adrenal fatigue is not Addison's Disease.

Treatment with "big guns" like Prednisone or Florinef may be a lot more than required, entailing more risk. It would be similar to using anabolic steriods for testosterone replacement.

[marianco]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

I worked my way up to 20 mg a day of Isocort, and had to stop due to the development of acne on face. I have no idea why. I was thinking I must have been overdoing it, and have been considering starting again at a smaller dose. I did worry that I might be shutting down the adrenals. I have been diagnosed with stage II adrenal fatigue per my salivary cortisol tests. My N.D. told me to continue on the Adrenal extracts I have, and supplement with 50 mg DHEA. I have been loosing some hair and am not sure if it is the DHEA or my Armour dosing.

Hair loss and acne have many causes.

For example:
Excessive cortisol can cause hair loss
Excessive DHEA can cause hair loss and acne. Most women cannot tolerate more than about 5-10 mg of DHEA due to hair loss.
Stress can cause hair loss
Stress can cause a loss of zinc, which in turn can cause hair loss
Excessive DHT can cause hair loss
Low or high thyroid hormone can cause hair loss

[Legenden1999]

Originally Posted by love_en

Yes that is. Because that scale is derrived from the values taken from physically ill people. Just like the Total Testosterone levels, serum cortisol tests falsely indicate all is well. Dr William McK. Jefferies was the pioneer for the diagnosis and treatment of adrenal problems. He found that the AM cortisol in men was closer to 30 and an ACTH stimulation test produced a result of 50+ in most subjects. I tend to agree with that. My AM cortisol is 28, an ACTH stimulation test results in only 38, and I have had adrenal symptoms long before I realized I was hypogonadal.

Damn.. I distrust my endo more and more, the more I learn in here. Marianco, can you confirm this ?

My AM cortisol is 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5. Should I look into this ?

I would like to hear Marianco's thoughts on this one too:

if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose.

JH

[SPE]

Originally Posted by Legenden1999

Damn.. I distrust my endo more and more, the more I learn in here. Marianco, can you confirm this ?

My AM cortisol is 17.8 and after a 30min ACTH stim is was 24.5. Should I look into this ?

I would like to hear Marianco's thoughts on this one too:


JH

I think you have to take both how the individual feels as well as their labs. Some might feel ok with an am cortisol level of 17.8. Mine was 17 and after learning about symptoms of adrenal insufficiency, I fit it to a T. It wasn't until I added thyroid meds that I began to realize the severe anxiety associated with a distressed adrenal system. Now, I'm on 8 isocort/day as well as 1.25 grains of armour and 50mcg of synthroid. I try and keep my replacement ratio at about 92% T4 to 8% T3(what the body normally produces). So far so good, but my morning temperatures are still LOW. This morning it was 96.3.

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by marianco

Hair loss and acne have many causes.

For example:
Excessive cortisol can cause hair loss
Excessive DHEA can cause hair loss and acne. Most women cannot tolerate more than about 5-10 mg of DHEA due to hair loss.
Stress can cause hair loss
Stress can cause a loss of zinc, which in turn can cause hair loss
Excessive DHT can cause hair loss
Low or high thyroid hormone can cause hair loss

I am unsure if it is the DHEA or the recent 1 grain increase in Armour that is causing the hair loss. I started the 50 mg of DHEA back in January and my DHEA -S jumped from 174 to 404 (120-520) in just three weeks. My DHT was only at 35 (no range given) on this last testing. I wonder if the DHEA has continued to build up in my body to an excessive level?

I only had the acne when I was taking 20 mg of ISOCORT. I could literally see inflammation in my pores around my nose and chin while on that dose.

I have seen many incredible improvements in my health as a result using the Armour, and I didn't think hair loss would happen until someone reached the "hyper" stage, which I have never felt, even on 4 grains a day.

Something is going on however. I have had much more oil on my face, just like when I was on HRT. I suppose the additonal Armour and/or DHEA could have gotten my endocrine system back on the right track, and I could be producing much more T than before.

Looks like the only way to solve the puzzle is to get some blood tests.

[SPE]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

I am unsure if it is the DHEA or the recent 1 grain increase in Armour that is causing the hair loss. I started the 50 mg of DHEA back in January and my DHEA -S jumped from 174 to 404 (120-520) in just three weeks. My DHT was only at 35 (no range given) on this last testing. I wonder if the DHEA has continued to build up in my body to an excessive level?

I only had the acne when I was taking 20 mg of ISOCORT. I could literally see inflammation in my pores around my nose and chin while on that dose.

I have seen many incredible improvements in my health as a result using the Armour, and I didn't think hair loss would happen until someone reached the "hyper" stage, which I have never felt, even on 4 grains a day.

Something is going on however. I have had much more oil on my face, just like when I was on HRT. I suppose the additonal Armour and/or DHEA could have gotten my endocrine system back on the right track, and I could be producing much more T than before.

Looks like the only way to solve the puzzle is to get some blood tests.

Since I added the isocort I have also noticed alot more oil on my skin. BUT, my dry skin has also cleared up. Something interesting happened to me when I added the isocort. I had been on 50mg DHEA for almost 9 months and couldn't get my level about 300 (260-650). Once I added the isocort, my DHEA shot up to 620.

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by SPE

Since I added the isocort I have also noticed alot more oil on my skin. BUT, my dry skin has also cleared up. Something interesting happened to me when I added the isocort. I had been on 50mg DHEA for almost 9 months and couldn't get my level about 300 (260-650). Once I added the isocort, my DHEA shot up to 620.

Yes it is my understanding that Cortisol helps the cells to be more receptive i.e. less resistant to things like nutrients and hormones (including Armour).

[Legenden1999]

Originally Posted by SPE

I definately agree that more is not better. I have been self treating, however. What I've heard is that if you stay <35-40mg hydrocortisone/day, then it's a pretty safe dose. Thoughts?

SPE,

How do you determine your dose, and where do you get the drug ?

JH

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by Legenden1999

SPE,

How do you determine your dose, and where do you get the drug ?

JH

SPE,
It is my understanding that 40 mg per day is how much the body produces in a normal day, when not under any measurable stress. It would appear(at least to me) you are taking enough to completely shut down your adrenals.

Marianco mentioned something to that effect earlier in this thread.

[SPE]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

SPE,
It is my understanding that 40 mg per day is how much the body produces in a normal day, when not under any measurable stress. It would appear(at least to me) you are taking enough to completely shut down your adrenals.

Marianco mentioned something to that effect earlier in this thread.

Vforcer2, as I stated above I only take 8 Isocorts/day. This is as you know about 20mg cortisol.

[love_en]

Originally Posted by SPE

Vforcer2, as I stated above I only take 8 Isocorts/day. This is as you know about 20mg cortisol.

Adrenal shutdown is the party line used by the medical community to deny treatment to people whose adrenals are just bad enough to make them feel like crap, but not enough to kill them. On the other hand, every doctor I know, prescribes 20-40mg of prednisone per day and wonders why his patient develops side effects and crashes when it is time to discontinue. The equivalent to 20mg of hydrocortisone is only 5mg of prednisone. I can just imagine how much more regressive medicine would be if insulin or thyroid were used in the same manner as the corticosteroids.