Antidepressants

[pmgamer18]

Have your Dr. check your Estradiol if it is high and you can bring it down your T levels will go up 200 to 300 points my Dr. has had some luck doing this first before putting a man on TRT. Also your Ferritin is dam low you need to bring this back up. Here is a cut & paste from this site.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...e-have-learned

low Ferritin, which is storage iron. Low Ferritin appears to be quite common in thyroid patients and causes problems as we try to raise our Armour, and it also mimics low thyroid symptoms. We then supplement with iron (and add Vit. E if we use Ferrous Sulfate since evidence says it depletes our E), and attempt to raise our Ferritin to 70 – 90 at the minimum, which takes time.

So I would also check your Cortisol levels read the link. Hell read the whole site.

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Bringing iron levels up will also help with the RLS since it is a co-factor in dopamine synthesis.

[marianco]

Originally Posted by Dopamineloveaffair

Bringing iron levels up will also help with the RLS since it is a co-factor in dopamine synthesis.

It is important to not take too much iron. Unless one is regularly bleeding - as in menopausal-age women - supplemental iron stores can build up to the point of toxicity.

[daphne]

Marciano,

Thank you for ALL of your posts! You are a refresher course in many areas of medicine, biology, pharmacology and much more. You are appreciated.

[cjsabbath]

Here's an interesting article from The Washington Post:

Government researchers announced yesterday that they have had striking success in treating depression in a matter of hours, using an experimental injectable drug that acts much more quickly than conventional antidepressants.

The study, based on a small sample, is part of a push by researchers to develop treatments that can bring quick relief to patients with mental disorders. Patients and their doctors report that it often takes weeks or months for most available medications to improve symptoms.

Much more work needs to be done before patients can see benefits from the breakthrough, the researchers said. Among the unanswered questions are whether patients will be able to tolerate the drug for long periods, and whether it will continue to be effective. Researchers said they hope the finding will prompt the pharmaceutical industry to develop similar compounds with fewer side effects that can then be tested on a large scale.

"Psychiatrists have gotten used to the idea we have to wait weeks or months, but we can break the sound barrier and get an antidepressant effect within hours," said Carlos Zarate Jr., chief of the mood disorders research unit at the National Institute of Mental Health.

Zarate and his colleagues published a paper about their findings in yesterday's issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

In the study, 18 patients were injected with a drug called ketamine, which has been used for a long time as an anesthetic. Patients briefly experienced a well-known side effect of the drug -- a mild feeling of dissociation, where they felt disconnected or found it difficult to put thoughts into words.

Ketamine is a controlled substance and can produce mild euphoria.

But the dissociative symptoms disappeared within a couple of hours, and shortly afterward patients and physicians reported a dramatic improvement in mood. Half the patients had a 50 percent decline in depression symptoms after two hours, and by the end of the first day, 71 percent reported a similar improvement. More than a third continued to report such a benefit after seven days, and nearly a third reported a complete end of symptoms. Conventional antidepressants approach those kinds of numbers only after eight to 10 weeks of treatment.

"We can truly raise the bar on what we can expect of antidepressant treatments," said Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health. "A modest response after six weeks is what we used to define as success. What I love about this project is it redefines success not in terms of weeks, but in terms of hours."

Rather than go after the conventional targets of serotonin and norepinephrine, the new drug targets an entirely different neurotransmitter in the brain called glutamate.

"This is not a subtle change," Insel added. "It is almost like rebooting a computer. It is a chemical reboot, and the striking thing is the effect lasts for about a week."

[danielthe]

why is everyone keen to stay in the viscous circle of antidepressants??? don't you want to get out of it and be free from the ups and down of your brain?? like all of you was a slave to the sweel music of these drugs: i was on zoloft and luvox and i could only shift from treatment to treatment. I myself always considered this attitude as be totally a normal one. but then i decided to look for altenatrive ways of healing completely... i turned to ways like yoga and meditation... i even started martial arts.
I find out that meditation helps my brain to stabilise to a certain point fixed while the change of moods gets along the way under control. For the anxiety, you tends to act towards a certain calm where no thought will emerge and the chemical in your brain gets used to this slow flow.

[bullwinkle]

Danielthe--say what?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by danielthe

why is everyone keen to stay in the viscous circle of antidepressants??? don't you want to get out of it and be free from the ups and down of your brain?? like all of you was a slave to the sweel music of these drugs: i was on zoloft and luvox and i could only shift from treatment to treatment. I myself always considered this attitude as be totally a normal one. but then i decided to look for altenatrive ways of healing completely... i turned to ways like yoga and meditation... i even started martial arts.
I find out that meditation helps my brain to stabilise to a certain point fixed while the change of moods gets along the way under control. For the anxiety, you tends to act towards a certain calm where no thought will emerge and the chemical in your brain gets used to this slow flow.

I think you will find this post is here because most men sick with low T are told they are suffering from Depression and on AD drugs. We have found that once a man getts on TRT and gets his T levels up the feelings of Depression are gone and they don't need AD drugs what was wrong was low T.

[skinny and depressed]

Can somebody tell me if you can still take supplements like whey, creatine, carnitine when you're taking an SSRI? I actually considered going to a psychiatrist because of my depression. I think that I might very well lack serotonine but what worries me are the sides of SSRI. I read a bit about SSRI and to me it looks like they are totally limiting. Somebody wrote you must not drink tonic water when you take SSRI or he also said that certain amino acids are converted into serotonine and this causes anxiety attacks when you're taking an SSRI. He wrote that he cannot eat turkey anymore because turkey is high in tryptophan. This sounds totally scary. I mean I cannot know the nutritional facts of every food which I eat and be aware of possible interactions with the SSRI. I'm afraid that taking an SSRI would worry me even more. And what also sucks is that it makes you fat and in this thread I even read that it may reduce the testosterone levels!
This means that an SSRI would reduce my already low T levels even more.
I have no clue what to do now. On the one hand the thought of having more mental clarity is nice but when I think about all these side effects then I'm not keen on taking antidepressants anymore. I also don't want to put on fat. I am losing fat right now and I still have a lot of fat to lose and putting on fat again would make me totally depressive.

[pmgamer18]

Are you on TRT if so what are you taking and what are your levels. When I first got sick after much testing I was told I am suffering from Major Depression and was put on every kind of AD drug on the market. I walked around in a fog for 5 yrs. never feeling better but worse. I then found out my T levels were dam low. The Dr. that found this had to put me into a Re-Hab Hosp. to get me off all the dam AD drugs. I then went on TRT and have not felt like I was depressed ever again. And I am not the only one with this story. We hear his all the time.

[skinny and depressed]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Are you on TRT if so what are you taking and what are your levels. When I first got sick after much testing I was told I am suffering from Major Depression and was put on every kind of AD drug on the market. I walked around in a fog for 5 yrs. never feeling better but worse. I then found out my T levels were dam low. The Dr. that found this had to put me into a Re-Hab Hosp. to get me off all the dam AD drugs. I then went on TRT and have not felt like I was depressed ever again. And I am not the only one with this story. We hear his all the time.

I'm not on TRT. My test levels are usually around 300ng/dl which is pretty low.
I have also thought about the possibility of my depression being linked to low Testosterone but
actually I have already been depressed as a young child and I don't think that at this age depression can be caused by low T. I could also very well imagine that I also have a serotonine imbalance but if SSRI even lower the testosterone further then I'm not really helping myself.

[skinny and depressed]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Are you on TRT if so what are you taking and what are your levels. When I first got sick after much testing I was told I am suffering from Major Depression and was put on every kind of AD drug on the market. I walked around in a fog for 5 yrs. never feeling better but worse. I then found out my T levels were dam low. The Dr. that found this had to put me into a Re-Hab Hosp. to get me off all the dam AD drugs. I then went on TRT and have not felt like I was depressed ever again. And I am not the only one with this story. We hear his all the time.

I'm not on TRT. My test levels are usually around 300ng/dl which is pretty low.
I have also thought about the possibility of my depression being linked to low Testosterone but
actually I have already been depressed as a young child and I don't think that at this age depression can be caused by low T. I could also very well imagine that I also have a serotonine imbalance but if SSRI even lower the testosterone further then I'm not really helping myself.

[pmgamer18]

At al level of 300 have you had tests to find out why your so low it can be you cortisol levels are low and you thyroid and this can make you feel depressed. Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are the tests you need and why. If you on SSRI meds now this will lower your T levels.
http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm
If they can't find any reasion for your low T levels you need to treat this or later in life you will have all kinds of problems with you health Heart and bone loss are 2 that go wrong.

[skinny and depressed]

Oh boy, this means that if I take SSRI then my T levels will definitely go down even more?
Does this mean I can forget about taking any SSRI?
Or do I need TRT+SSRI?

I had my cortisol levels tested one time. It was a 24h cortisol test and the result was normal.
I also had my thyroid hormones tested and they were also normal, at least my doctor said this.
He also did an ultrasound and said that the thyroid looks normal and is not enlarged.

TSH 1.71 Norm 0.4-2.5
fT4 pmol/l 16.8 Norm 10.3-24.5
fT3 pg/ml 3.0 Norm 1.8-5.2

[pmgamer18]

If you need to be on TRT your feelings of depression will go away your Thyroid to me is low both Free T 4 and 3 should be up in the top of the range. You lower then mine was and I am on Armour. What your Dr. called normal for your cortisol test may still be adrenal fatigue post your tests with the range's. A good way to tell how your Thyroid is take your temp in the morning before getting out of bed under your arm for 10 min.'s if it's below 97.8 you low.
Go to this link and read up on this.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Originally Posted by skinny and depressed

Oh boy, this means that if I take SSRI then my T levels will definitely go down even more?
Does this mean I can forget about taking any SSRI?
Or do I need TRT+SSRI?

I had my cortisol levels tested one time. It was a 24h cortisol test and the result was normal.
I also had my thyroid hormones tested and they were also normal, at least my doctor said this.
He also did an ultrasound and said that the thyroid looks normal and is not enlarged.

TSH 1.71 Norm 0.4-2.5
fT4 pmol/l 16.8 Norm 10.3-24.5
fT3 pg/ml 3.0 Norm 1.8-5.2

[skinny and depressed]

Oh man. This makes me freak out. I cannot deal with all these things. It's like I am fighting at multiple fronts at the same time! How shall I know what I have? Everybody suggests something different. This overextends me and makes me feel totally hypo.
How am I supposed to find this out? I don't have a miracle doctor at my hand who understands all these things and who's willing to help me. I have been to 3 endos and they all told me the same. I am so tired of this.
What is adrenal fatigue? Does this mean you've permanently screwed up your glands?

I just want to feel normal and not worry anymore. This stuff makes me worry even more because I stumble from one anxiety into the other.

Once I had a very high DHEA and 17-Hydroxypregnolon level but in the next test it was normal again.
This test was done 4 years ago. I had these results:

DHEA 1160ng/dl Norm: -750ng/dl
17-Hydroxypregnolon 980ng/dl Norm: - 350ng/dl
Cortisol 157ng/ml Norm: 50-250 ng/ml

But in later tests my DHEA was normal again. The doc wrote that the high DHEA & 17-Hydroxy levels were most likels caused by stress. He also told me to get a kidney MRT which was normal.

I also have a lot of stress, no doubt about that. Often I feel totally exhausted. Maybe taking an SSRI would help against the stress, this would be healthier than having so much stress.
Reading your reply already made me become stressed again but it's simply overwhelming. I don't even know what to do anymore. Everybody suggests something different as reason for my low T. I don't know what to do anymore. There are no more endos in my area. If I go to an urologist he would simply give me T but he will not do any further thyroid diagnosis because he doesn't know enough about it. My options are very limited. I can get TRT but that's about it. I won't find a doc who has the knowledge to really explore all kinds of options. Even if I have low thryoid hormones and even if they might cause my low T then I won't be able to find a doc who understands this. Like I said I have been to all endos in my area.

[pmgamer18]

Hey welcome to the club we all are in the same boat. You sound like you live in the UK where do you live. I have been at this for 23 yrs. and just now getting to the bottom of it all. I got by for yrs. with my thyroid like yours don't even worry about it. All I am trying to tell you is with levels in this range but normal can be why you feel like you do. If you can get on TRT do it it's a start this is how if worked for me first 5 yrs. Depression meds never felt better then they found my T levels were low going on TRT I got my life back yet I was not a 100% but dam close to it.

[skinny and depressed]

But let's say my low T is caused by cause A but I don't know that it's cause A and I think it's cause B and simply get TRT then my testosterone might be higher but I still didn't treat the real cause. But somehow I'm really tired of all this stuff. I'm tired of seeking for reasons and freaking out and getting from one thing to the other. There could be so many reasons for my low T but I don't want to explore them all because it's senseless anyway because I won't find any doctor who is able and also willing to explore them all. If I go to a doctor who is willing to treat me for my low T then he will simply give me injections and that's it.
Raising thyroid hormones can also have side effects and cause heart rhythm disorders which I have already had in the past. I also don't want to feel like a labratory rat and test all kinds of things.

[pmgamer18]

So you just want to talk about it and not do anything. Most of what you just said tells me this. So way are you hear what do you want.

[FYI777]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

So you just want to talk about it and not do anything. Most of what you just said tells me this. So way are you hear what do you want.

Maybe he wants someone else's opinion,not just yours.