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Old 01-12-2006, 09:25 PM
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Question Dangers of TRT?

What are the dangers of long term TRT? The last urologist had me a little freaked out about dangers of long term use. Can I get a second opinion?
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Old 01-12-2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
What are the dangers of long term TRT? The last urologist had me a little freaked out about dangers of long term use. Can I get a second opinion?

Sadly to many of them where trained when that was the thinking in the 1950's and it's been slow to change.

Later.
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
What are the dangers of long term TRT? The last urologist had me a little freaked out about dangers of long term use. Can I get a second opinion?
and your uro is a complete idiot...
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:06 AM
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think of this the opposite way. What are the long term consequences of little or no testosterone: dementia, cardiovascular desease, and perhaps some others I cannot recall.
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
What are the dangers of long term TRT? The last urologist had me a little freaked out about dangers of long term use. Can I get a second opinion?
Having lower than normal T levels is unhealthy. Having much higher than normal T levels (steroid abuse) is unhealthy. Hormone Replacement Therapy is not unhealthy.
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Old 01-13-2006, 12:55 AM
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low test lvls cause.... tiredness....hot flashes.....loss of muscle mass... weak bones.....poor sexual performance.....altered mood........ weaker immune system.... and INCREASES YOUR RISK OF CANCER.....

i knew u would love the last one.... NOT

and this is just the stuff off the top of my head at teh molment.... if u want to start digging downdeeper u could say

weak self esteem etc...... which are side products from the side effect
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:26 PM
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Hell, the low sexual performance or no erections would turn me to TRT right there.

Low HDL's, High triglycerides, dry skin, sensitive, low self esteem, insecurity.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:30 PM
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Has anyone been on TRT for an extended period of time notice any problems? Does it make you sterile after a certain length of time? I need peace of mind...someone help me out.
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
Has anyone been on TRT for an extended period of time notice any problems? Does it make you sterile after a certain length of time? I need peace of mind...someone help me out.
Been on it over 21 yrs and the only problem I had was my levels were not high enough and I was not adding HCG.
Phil
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
Has anyone been on TRT for an extended period of time notice any problems? Does it make you sterile after a certain length of time? I need peace of mind...someone help me out.
Per Swale:

Appropriate TRT will not make a fertile man infertile. Search the board for threads on the subject.

HCG would definitely have to be part of the regimen, and 400mg shots would definitely be a no no.
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:51 PM
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That is my biggest concern. I want to have children one day and I don't want TRT to cause a problem with that.
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Old 01-22-2006, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
That is my biggest concern. I want to have children one day and I don't want TRT to cause a problem with that.
Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) entails increasing DEFICIENT levels of testosterone to NORMAL or OPTIMAL PHYSIOLOGIC levels per that particular person. A person should be deficient in testosterone in the first place to receive TRT.

Some adverse effects and associated conditions:

1. If only testosterone is used in replacement therapy, a person does run the risk of causing atrophy of the testes and reduction in sperm production. This is because with the higher testosterone levels, the brain does not need to produce luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) to increase testosterone production. The lower follicle stimulating hormone levels also reduce sperm production. If a person wants to have optimum fertility, while on testosterone replacement therapy, then it is important to supplement testosterone treatment with human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) treatment. HCG behaves in the human body like LH and FSH. It will keep the testes from atrophy, and maintain sperm production. SWALE has a great protocol to use as a starting point.

2. It is important to monitor for prostate cancer. Testosterone itself does not cause prostate cancer - estrogen is much more of a risk for prostate cancer. However, testosterone, like estrogen, promotes tissue growth. Thus, testosterone needs to be blocked or withdrawn if prostate cancer exists. Some recommend twice a year prostate exams and more frequent prostate specific antigen tests when on testosterone replacement therapy to monitor for prostate cancer.

3. If dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels become too high (from conversion from testosterone via the alpha-reductase enzyme), then hair loss may accellerate. Excessively high DHT levels may also increase visceral (belly) fat - which then increases the risk of high cholesterol, blood pressure, stroke and heart attacks, cancer, etc. DHT levels are easily monitored via blood tests. An easy way to monitor DHT levels informally is to see if one gets acne - a symptom of perhaps excessive DHT levels. When DHT is increased, one may also notice more body hair or faster hair growth in the DHT-resistant hair follicles (the ones that one does not easily lose when going bald). I, myself, try to aim for testosterone levels between the age of 24-30, not teenage male levels.

4. If estrogen levels become too high (from conversion from testosterone via the aromatase enzyme), then you have a higher risk for weight gain, heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc. A sign of excess estrogens is gynecomastia (breast growth) in men. Estrogen levels are easily monitored and can be treated.

5. If, a person has been deficient in testosterone for a long time, eventually, adrenal fatigue can set in. This means the adrenal glands cannot make enough Cortisol and other hormones when needed to help the mind and body withstand stress. An initial problem with elevating testosterone is that one of testosterone's functions is to suppress the spike in cortisol and other hormones from the adrenal glands. This helps limit the stress response - preventing damage to the body from excessive cortisol and other hormone levels (this includes diabetes, obesity, muscle wasting, etc.). The initial testosterone elevation suppresses cortisol temporarily (until the adrenals can recover from their fatigue from the calming/stress-reducing effects of testosterone). This temporary suppression of cortisol may make a person more susceptible to viral illnesses such as colds. This is not often seen as a problem in people, but is possible, and should be expected to be transient. It is an example of secondary problems that can occur from deficient testosterone levels.

6. Prostatic enlargement (and urinary retention and urinary frequency) from higher DHT and higher Estrogen levels is a possibility with testosterone replacement. Treatment may include taking saw palmetto (which seems to be highly specific for blocking prostate alpha-reductase rather than systemic alpha-reductase - and is thus safer to use than finesteride and other commercial alpha-reductase inhibitors with TRT), and taking arimidex (or other aromatase inhibitor), or taking DIM (to reduce estrogen activity). Testosterone, itself (rather than DHT), over time may reduce prostatic enlargement.

7. Higher red blood cell counts may occur as testosterone levels are increased. This thickens the blood, and if in excess may increase the risk of developing a blood clot. It may also make it more difficult for a person to breath - particularly an elderly person with a lung and cardiovascular system disease. It is important to keep this in mind and check the blood count. One of testosterone's functions is to stimulate the creation of red blood cells - highly useful, but not in excess.

When increasing the testosterone levels, it is important to be aware of other neurotransmitter/hormones that are effected and to be aware if adverse effects can occur, then to take steps to counter those adverse effects.

Most of these adverse effect occur from secondary imbalances in other neurotransmitters and hormones. The watchword is maintaining "balance" - maintaining physiologic levels of all the neurotransmitters and hormones - which minimizes risk and optimizes function. In general, I think when physiologic levels of testosterone and other neurotransmitters and hormones are maintained, the risk of adverse effects is very low with testosterone replacement therapy. Of course, if a person accomplishes testosterone replacement therapy using drugs such as aromatase inhibitors (e.g. arimidex), then the person runs the risk of adverse effects of each individual drug itself.

For each person, it is important to weigh the risks and benefits of treatment. However, the risks of continuing deficient testosterone levels are clear. They include:
1. Heart attacks.
2. Strokes.
3. Prostate cancer, possibly other cancers (from unbalanced estrogens actions).
4. Chronic fatigue and difficulty coping with stress (accompanying adrenal fatigue/insufficiency that secondarily occurs with low testosterone levels)
5. Excessive anxiety, stress, irritability, anger outbursts (the irritable male syndrome)
6. Severe depression.
7. Impaired memory and attention, difficulty learning new material (some to the extent of a dementia-like syndrome).
8. Impaired fertility - if low FSH/LH levels or FSH/LH resistance are the cause of low testosterone levels.
9. Lack of libido, erectile dysfunction - often bandaged with Viagra, but with undiagnosed testosterone deficiency as a direct cause.
10. Obesity - which is difficult to treat with diet alone - which can lead to arthritic conditions.
11. Diabetes
12. Loss of muscle mass.
13. Osteoporosis
14. Impaired immune system.
15. Reduced reaction time, quickness of reaction, mental quickness (from reduced dopamine levels, insulin-resistance associated with testosterone deficiency - among other associated changes)

There is a general progresson of other heretofore "age-associated" changes in one's health and ability to function - which would have been prevented by maintaining optimum testosterone levels.

Ultimately, maintaining testosterone deficiency may significantly reduce the quality of one's life.
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Last edited by marianco : 01-27-2006 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:12 AM
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thanks for such a thorough response to the question.
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Old 01-22-2006, 11:41 AM
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Excellent post Marianco. Thank you.
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:14 PM
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Wow Marianco.....thank you for the very informative post. This eases my mind on the subject. Thanks!
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:18 PM
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That was really nice, marianco.

I see why this thread was stickied.
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:51 PM
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Default Fertility and Testosterone Replacement Therapy

Quote:
FROM ANONYMOUS: im 19 and have very low testosterone, sky high lh and fsh, caused by varicocele which degenerated my testicles.

i went on trt for 6 months which desimated my sperm count. ive know been off trt for several months and im going to start banking sperm as its gradually started to return (i had a recent analysis)

my question is whether it is a bad idea to take DIM/indolplex if im trying to bank. i have an incredibly low fertility and dont want to effect my chances. also would doing half a pack of testogel (2.5g) effect my HPTA to such an extent that it would effect fertility, (i dont have HCG)

as ive mentioned fertility is the key, but id quite like to improve my body a little if i can as well, and once ive banked i can hit the testogel hard.
Testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone levels. This is sensed by the hypothalamus, which then reduces the release of Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Luteinizing Hormone (LH) from the Pituitary. Luteinizing Hormone is needed to increase testosterone production from the testes. Follicle Stimulating Hormone is needed to stimulate sperm production.

When a person has low testosterone and sperm production because of testicular hypofunction, the FSH and LH levels are very high because the brain is trying its hardest to stimulate testosterone production (which also increases sperm production). Testosterone replacement will reduce FSH and LH, causing a reduction in testosterone and sperm production.

There is more to the story...

Sperm production is also dependent on having adequate Estrogen Activity and Oxytocin Activity. Both are linked. Estrogen increases Oxytocin release. Estrogen stimulates sperm production and testicular size - just as FSH/LH and its analog HCG do. Oxytocin, itself, can increase sperm production and ejaculate volume. Ejaculate fluid itself is necessary for normal fertility - the sperm alone would be useless in normal sex.

High estrogen levels can reduce sex drive and can have other adverse effects - such as heart attacks, strokes, and blood clots.

Low estrogen levels also can reduce sex drive and can have other adverse effects - such as high cholesterol levels, impaired memory - and low sperm production.

The use of DIM and I3C to reduce estrogen activity may seriously reduce sperm production just as reducing FSH and LH levels (from increasing testosterone levels) can do. If anything, it is important to maintain physiologic estrogen levels to maintain sperm production.

If a person has low testosterone levels, which can lead to low estrogen levels, it may be important to increase estrogen to normal physiologic levels to stimulate sperm production.

It is important to balance estrogen with normal progesterone levels - which helps protect the person from some of the risks of estrogen (blood clots, heart attacks, stroke).

Oxytocin may be considered to raise sperm production and ejaculate volume. However it is a non-usual and a nonstandard treatment even by TRT standards. It can be compounded into a nasal spray - the dose range is about 10-24 IU a day. It is highly important for this to be monitored by a physician. Oxytocin, at its worse, can raise blood pressure, can result in excessive fluid retention, and other potentially fatal risks (just as estrogen can lead to heart attack, stroke and blood clots). These can be monitored on exam and lab testing.
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Last edited by marianco : 01-28-2006 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 02-04-2006, 08:40 PM
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I'd never heard that about the oxytocin nasal spray, and/or "ORT" before. Interesting.
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:17 AM
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Default Oxytocin

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Originally Posted by SWALE
I'd never heard that about the oxytocin nasal spray, and/or "ORT" before. Interesting.
Until several years ago, possibly because of a studies which showed variable effects or no effect, oxytocin nasal spray was available for women who gave birth, to help them start milk production in order to nurse. Often these women gave birth prematurely and thus their bodies were not primed to produce milk. Oxytocin, itself, is used intraveneously to promote uterine contractions during the birth process.

Oxytocin, in other studies, however, was found to have more functions that just uterine contractions and milk production. It has been found to be a prime hormone/neurotransmitter involved in attraction to others in relationships, the development of trust to strangers and others, in the feeling of "being in love", in the well-being sensation of orgasms, and in seminal fluid production.

Oxytocin can have side effects similar to vasopressin - thus its risks, including toxicity from excessive fluid retention and low sodium.
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Last edited by marianco : 02-05-2006 at 12:20 AM.
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