day one of attempting to restart

[hackskii]

I think it is ok on the nolva but not clomid.

Tapering is a good idea too and I mean taper it to 5mg, that is what I am going to do.
I am day 5

[chap]

end of day 10.... 50mg clomid, 20 mg nolva

not much new to report, libido still very low, but I feel really good, had a good workout, testicles are big... I wonder if libido will be this way until I get off the serms? I feel like I could stop now cuz I really feel like my hpta is producing, but I want to run for awhile to hope for a more longlasting cure.

[hackskii]

Id run as planned if it was me.

This is something I copied on sunlight from a doc on MSN

Reduced Symptoms of PMS
Exposure to bright sunlight has been found to help alleviate some symptoms associated with pre-menstrual syndrome, such as mild depression and mood swings, irritability, physical discomfort and social withdrawal.

• Jet Lag Prevention
Doses of sunlight or simulated sunlight timed carefully upon arrival in a new time zone can reset your body’s biological clock, resulting in less daytime drowsiness and better quality night-time sleep.
• Reduction In Frequency of the Common Cold
A 10 – 20 minute exposure to ultraviolet light one to three times per week can result in a 40.3% reduction in the frequency of the common cold, thereby reducing the following symptoms: runny nose, sneezing, sore throat, coughing, and muscle aches. Reduction In Frequency of the Common Cold.

• Controls Obesity
Sunlight and/or simulated sunlight can stimulate the thyroid gland, which boosts your metabolism.

Robbie and Isabel says:
• Nature's Skin Protection
It is considered common knowledge that our natural tanning process provides protection against burning. Unlike some sunscreens, a tan can provide reliable, full-spectrum UVA/UVB protection against burning. Your natural tan provides protection that doesn’t rub, sweat or wear off the way sunscreen protection can.
• Prevention of Some Cancers
People who live in regions with more sunlight, such as New Mexico and Arizona, are known to have a lower incidence of death from ovarian, breast and colon cancers than those who live in places with less sunlight, such as New Hampshire and Vermont.

Helps Control Seasonal Depression
Many people, both young and old, spend more than 23 hours a day indoors. Over the last decade, studies at the National Institute of Mental health have produced evidence that the shortage of sunlight during winter produces clinical depression in millions of people. Exposure to sunlight or simulated sunlight for 10- - 20 minuets once or twice a week shows a 70% improvement in patients with Seasonal Affected Disorder (SAD). Light treatment is the only know cure for the “Winter Blues.”
• Increased Sex Drive
When the chest and back are exposed to sunlight, the male sex hormones may increase by up to 120%.




Robbie and Isabel says:
• Reduced Fatigue
Various laboratory tests and on-site studies have shown that the UV-inclusive light helps workers reduce fatigue and accidents, and dramatically increases productivity. Normal fluorescent lighting actually increases fatigue and drains the body of energy and vitamin A.

• Reduced Stress
Exposure to sunlight decreases adrenaline and noradrenaline levels for an anti-stressing effect. It also releases endorphins for the feeling of “well-being.”

Robbie and Isabel says:
ok thats enough for now, I have hundreds of topic lines like that we are condensing into a simple article.
matt says:
"When the chest and back are exposed to sunlight, the male sex hormones may increase by up to 120%." <---- thats all u needed to say... im sold

[chap]

time to buy a tanning salon membership, bright light is good for depression too

feel great this morning, great morning wood again, worked out fairly hard last night and no soreness to report this morning, so my recovery is good it seems.

[hackskii]

Originally Posted by chap

time to buy a tanning salon membership, bright light is good for depression too

feel great this morning, great morning wood again, worked out fairly hard last night and no soreness to report this morning, so my recovery is good it seems.

How many days now bro?

Good morning wood?
That is a good thing.

I took a tan today

[chap]

morning day 12

feel great, libido improved a bit last night, did 50mg clomid and 20 mg nolva yesterday and will again tonight

I've changed my dosing to only before bed now.

wish I had done this regimen years ago instead of all the time and headaches I wasted on trt

I think I will drop the clomid after day 14 and continue with the nolva

[hackskii]

You take the nolva and clomid just before bed now?

If so this works better you think?

Better labido or what?

[chap]

not sure, I read it somewhere, and also I felt like the nolva actually made me drowsy a couple hours after I took it, so that is another reason before bed is better

[liljunior]

Dude,

Firstly keep these postings coming, and yeah I have a nap in an office while I'm at work cause it makes me feel like I'm going to fall over!

Anyway good to see this sort of stuff....keep it up..

[chap]

end of day 12

got back from working out, actually went heavy today because I feel strong and I was as strong as I was when I was on the trt doses for sure, so it makes me wonder if my natural test is now at a high level.... libido is still weak, but that might have something to do with being on clomid and nolva... but I feel really great, mood good, feel really healthy, something I can't say I felt all the time when on trt... this is really working much better than I expected

[toc67guru]

good to hear chap things are going well.
i am of the opinion that libido will increase on cessation of clomid and nolvo as i feel that they are weak estrogens in themselves & have a negative effect on libido even whilst testosterone levels may be increasing from their use.
what would be interesting is blood test results and whether you continue to feel as well when you stop using the serms and whether your body can naturally keep up output afterwards.

good luck with your experiment and keep us posted.

[hackskii]

What a cool thread........

[Matt Muscle]

Originally Posted by chap

end of day 12

got back from working out, actually went heavy today because I feel strong and I was as strong as I was when I was on the trt doses for sure, so it makes me wonder if my natural test is now at a high level.... libido is still weak, but that might have something to do with being on clomid and nolva... but I feel really great, mood good, feel really healthy, something I can't say I felt all the time when on trt... this is really working much better than I expected

If your strength levels are as good as when you were on TRT... you would think that your endogenous levels of T are at a good level. My strength declines very quickly when T levels fall.

I would not stop the SERM therapy now, however, perhaps as you say just taking Tamoxifen after the 3 week period, for at least 3 months.... I would not be too concerned about your libido at this stage. It is a shame that you cannot do some testing at various points.

Yes this thread is very interesting.

[chap]

I have a 'prescription' for a lab test for free testosterone that I am saving to use, not sure when I will take the test.... I'm tempted to now just to see if it is recovered testosterone wise and therefore the libido not being testosterone related

you are right, my strength and good mental feelings tells me that testosterone is in range somewhere, I can tell when I am low too and this is not like that at all, tomorrow is my last day of clomid so we will see what if anything changes in a few days when the clomid is out of the system

[chap]

end of day 13, no change in libido, workout heavy and very strong, feel fantastic

I decided to taper the clomid a little, so today 25mg clomid, 20 mg nolva

[chap]

day 14 today 25mg clomid, 20 mg nolva

last day of clomid today

feel fantastic

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by ANTB

I'm 35, and been on trt for about a year. This protocol won't be popular in this forum, but I feel great in every aspect.
I take 25mgs. clomid mon/wed/fri, along with .5 arimidex on the same days.
My TT stays at 850/900, (241-827). 25 mgs. of clomid is very powerful.
Every 2 months I switch to 5gms. androgel, and 250 iu. hcg 3x a week, along with arimidex.
That is what my doc has me do. I tried almost every form of trt and this has been the best for me.
All bloodwork has been good. I think small doses of clomid may go a long way for some with minimal to no sides. Just my 2 cents.

This protocol intrigues me. Do you have any emotional problems due to the clomid? Do you have any other lab results you could share with us on this protocol? I would like to see where it puts your DHT, E2, Lipids, etc.

I tried HCG only at 200 iu per day and it only pumped up my E2.. Perhaps I should have tried it with Arimidex.

[chap]

end of day 15

20 mg nolvadex, no more clomid

workout very strong
feel great
libido actually improving a bit

[Legenden1999]

Originally Posted by ANTB

I take 25mgs. clomid mon/wed/fri, along with .5 arimidex on the same days.

Every 2 months I switch to 5gms. androgel, and 250 iu. hcg 3x a week, along with arimidex.

Your HPTA must be very confused. You turn it on and off every 2 months. Why would you wanna do this ?

JH

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

This protocol intrigues me. Do you have any emotional problems due to the clomid? Do you have any other lab results you could share with us on this protocol? I would like to see where it puts your DHT, E2, Lipids, etc.

I tried HCG only at 200 iu per day and it only pumped up my E2.. Perhaps I should have tried it with Arimidex.

Is this all you were doing is 200 IU's a day of HCG or were you doing T also. I don't under stand why men feel that taking something to get there T levels up if it drivers up E2 that is not good. Some men older are going to have higher E2 levels normaly with out being on TRT it is just a fact of life. So when you go on TRT and your E's go up take something to bring it down. Keeping it down helps bring up your Total and Free T levels. I feel this is a small price to pay to feel better. You need your Total and Free T levels up in the upper 1/3 of your labs range and your E2 down between 10 to 30. So if you need you T level up at say 600 and this drives your E2 up to 45. Backing off on your T levels will bring down your E2 but will you feel good at say 300.