going to new DR. tomorrow.. need help please

[flyboyiii]

im going to see a new Dr. tomorrow. i want to make sure i ge the proper tests done.

right now i am having problems losing weight. anytime i take anything that helps the thyroid i lose weight but as soon as i stop taking it... the weight comes right back. nomatter how much cardio i do. ad 3.5-4.5 miles 2-3x a week and biked 50 miles a week avg.
been on trt since mar 06
sperm count almost nil
low energy, tired, low sex drive
results from last blood tests mar 07
pre trt 287 TT last TT test was 467 on 2 packs of androgel a day
IGF-1 was 87 i s now 157
am cortisol was 6.1 (4.0-22.0) mar 06 --not been tested since.
estridol 19 apr 2006
free t was 106.5 sept 06
acth was 7 on mar 06
dihydrotestosterone was 173 nov 06

dont know if these numbers will mean anything as i know i didnt post everything but just what i thought might be important

Any ideas?

TIA JOE.

[kincaiddave]

My first thought is that that cortisol level is awfully low. If your thyroid numbers are low as well then you wouldn't be getting enough thyroid hormones into the cells and that's why you responded well to the thyroid treatment. Why did you discontinue the thyroid treatment?

You need to post all the ranges for the above tests along with any thyroid or other tests you have had for the experts on the board to help you.

Problems loosing weight - what is your weight and how tall are you?

[flyboyiii]

510 180 with a gut.
this Dr. knows what he is doing.. says im hgh deficient and my test needs to be at 800
he did a pitutitary hi def mri free t3 free t4 igf-1 and another 3 hr stim test i cant remember the name of that i go in tuesday for. he is determined to find out what is causing all of my problems.
i go back in in jan to get all th results and assume start IM test injections. and probally HGH.

[jinxie1]

I'm new to this, but it appears that you have secondary adrenal insufficiency -- in fact, it looks like Addison's. Your ACTH should be upregulating to get that cortisol WAY higher. That number is so low, I would think you would be experiencing some severe symptoms, which would preculde this kind of exercising. You must be a real soldier. I'd recommend consider taking it easier on your body -- I dont think the exervcise will help you lose meaningful weight if you are suffering from adrenal insufficiency, and it will likely only make you more depleted.

Good luck,
j

[flyboyiii]

ok here are the results of the labs my dr took.

tsh 3rd generation .60 (.40-4.50)
t-4 free 1.2 (.8-1.8)
t-3 free 313 (230-420)

no results for my HGH stim test
or my Pitituary MRI yet.

told my total testerone should be 800
and that he believes im gh diefecient as well

Followup not till early jan when i will get the results and im guessing new treatment.

Joe

[flyboyiii]

also what should i expect if he raises my tot test to 800 and puts me on growth hormone?

[flyboyiii]

will upping my total test and starting hgh increase my metabolism? and traise my thyroid output?

[flyboyiii]

or do i need to take something else for the thyroid?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

im going to see a new Dr. tomorrow. i want to make sure i ge the proper tests done.

right now i am having problems losing weight. anytime i take anything that helps the thyroid i lose weight but as soon as i stop taking it... the weight comes right back. nomatter how much cardio i do. ad 3.5-4.5 miles 2-3x a week and biked 50 miles a week avg.
been on trt since mar 06
sperm count almost nil
low energy, tired, low sex drive
results from last blood tests mar 07
pre trt 287 TT last TT test was 467 on 2 packs of androgel a day
IGF-1 was 87 i s now 157
am cortisol was 6.1 (4.0-22.0) mar 06 --not been tested since.
estridol 19 apr 2006
free t was 106.5 sept 06
acth was 7 on mar 06
dihydrotestosterone was 173 nov 06

dont know if these numbers will mean anything as i know i didnt post everything but just what i thought might be important

Any ideas?

TIA JOE.

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

ok here are the results of the labs my dr took.

tsh 3rd generation .60 (.40-4.50)
t-4 free 1.2 (.8-1.8)
t-3 free 313 (230-420)
no results for my HGH stim test
or my Pitituary MRI yet.

told my total testerone should be 800
and that he believes im gh diefecient as well

Followup not till early jan when i will get the results and im guessing new treatment.

Joe

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

also what should i expect if he raises my tot test to 800 and puts me on growth hormone?

Your cortisol looks low.
Testing is of low reliability, but you may want to do 4 point saliva test.
Skip any other test that come with it, waste of money.
Use this test from Genova Diagnostics
Adrenocortex Stress Profile,
GDX Adrenocortex Stress Profile
In any case get enough of Cortef 5mg pills
use up to 4 or 6per day, divided dose early morning then noon.
This is to allow you to take Armour thyroid that you need.

You have low FreeT3, get enough Armour thyroid until your FreeT3~4.2
then asses and possibly add some Synthroid to get FreeT4 up

Because of thyroid problems and possibly other stuff you are not good for transdermal testosterone.
Luckily, we now know that you have no DHT problems.

Give me your SHBG
I will tell you approximate average weekly dose of Depo-Testosterone shots.
You will also need HCG
When doing T/HCG shots, stay on E2D schedule, one day T next day HCG and so on.
Your E2 looks low now but not overly, it may raise when on T shots.
Keep LiquiDex at hand, but use only when actual blood test tells you that you need it.

Your goal is to have blood test show
FreeT3=4.2
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
BAT~575

You have to do blood testing at Quest, this is the best lab there is.
I have a blood test list on post #44 here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2

the list can be made much shorter, that depends.
But the way it is written, you will get the best tests that are available,
so do not change any names or numbers there.

Luckily you are about ready to go on growth hormone.
That is a good news, do not do it, do not use HGH,
but spend the money, much less of it,
on proper testing.

After you are done with the above, or even right now, you should look into
Genova Diagnostics testing

NutriEval
EstroEssence

So tell your doc to open account there.
They will hold his hand, and make everything easy for him and you.
Tell your doc to start with this link:
myGDX Login

and work on it until he gets
* GDX * User ID
GDX** Password

it does not cost him any money,
they will tell him all ICD-9 codes that you need
and fill up insurance papers for you
deliver test kits to your doorsteps.
Part of the treatment you can do with your doc over the phone or e-mail.

Good luck
pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

[flyboyiii]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Your cortisol looks low.
Testing is of low reliability, but you may want to do 4 point saliva test.
Skip any other test that come with it, waste of money.
Use this test from Genova Diagnostics
Adrenocortex Stress Profile,
GDX Adrenocortex Stress Profile
In any case get enough of Cortef 5mg pills
use up to 4 or 6per day, divided dose early morning then noon.
This is to allow you to take Armour thyroid that you need.

You have low FreeT3, get enough Armour thyroid until your FreeT3~4.2
then asses and possibly add some Synthroid to get FreeT4 up

Because of thyroid problems and possibly other stuff you are not good for transdermal testosterone.
Luckily, we now know that you have no DHT problems.

Give me your SHBG
I will tell you approximate average weekly dose of Depo-Testosterone shots.
You will also need HCG
When doing T/HCG shots, stay on E2D schedule, one day T next day HCG and so on.
Your E2 looks low now but not overly, it may raise when on T shots.
Keep LiquiDex at hand, but use only when actual blood test tells you that you need it.

Your goal is to have blood test show
FreeT3=4.2
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6)
BAT~575

You have to do blood testing at Quest, this is the best lab there is.
I have a blood test list on post #44 here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2

the list can be made much shorter, that depends.
But the way it is written, you will get the best tests that are available,
so do not change any names or numbers there.

Luckily you are about ready to go on growth hormone.
That is a good news, do not do it, do not use HGH,
but spend the money, much less of it,
on proper testing.

After you are done with the above, or even right now, you should look into
Genova Diagnostics testing

NutriEval
EstroEssence

So tell your doc to open account there.
They will hold his hand, and make everything easy for him and you.
Tell your doc to start with this link:
myGDX Login

and work on it until he gets
* GDX * User ID
GDX** Password

it does not cost him any money,
they will tell him all ICD-9 codes that you need
and fill up insurance papers for you
deliver test kits to your doorsteps.
Part of the treatment you can do with your doc over the phone or e-mail.

Good luck
pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

I dont have to worry about the cost of meds or tests. the military pays for that. no co-pay
estridol was 30 in september 06

i will be taking bi weekly test shots. not weekly.. the dr injects them himself. doesnt allow anyone else to do it. he has had patients that their wives were nurses and insisted on administering the shots.. and 3 patients died due to improper injection location. hitting a vien i guess.. dont ask me, but he says you must be very careful as to the location of the test shot.
i cant find that test result you were asking for could it show up as something else what is it testing?

[flyboyiii]

why should i not go oh hgh?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

I dont have to worry about the cost of meds or tests. the military pays for that. no co-pay
estridol was 30 in september 06

i will be taking bi weekly test shots. not weekly.. the dr injects them himself. doesnt allow anyone else to do it. he has had patients that their wives were nurses and insisted on administering the shots.. and 3 patients died due to improper injection location. hitting a vien i guess.. dont ask me, but he says you must be very careful as to the location of the test shot.
i cant find that test result you were asking for could it show up as something else what is it testing?

You are up the creek with this shots bussiness and military, I am sorry for you.

Thank you for defending my country.

Every two weeks will not work for you.
Then the doc will say "see is not working take this anti depressants instead".

I do my shots every other day, in between I do HCG shots.
So I do shots every day.
I use 31ga 5/16" long needle.
Even blind people can't hit a ven if they shoot in 8" circle around their navel.

Do not start with growth hormone.

Reread my previus post,
if you are able to follow it you may uncover your actual problem and that will be 3/4 way to solving it.
.
.

[flyboyiii]

the military will cover it.
they have been paying for androgel for almost 2 yrs now.
the military DR's are the ones who refered me to the specialist
also they will pay for saizen (hgh)

im under the care of an off base Doctor/specialist (endo/metabolism)

i have been on welbutrin and lexapro at same the time and seperately neither worked.

why wouldnt every two weeks work?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

the military will cover it.
they have been paying for androgel for almost 2 yrs now.
the military DR's are the ones who refered me to the specialist
also they will pay for saizen (hgh)

im under the care of an off base Doctor/specialist (endo/metabolism)

i have been on welbutrin and lexapro at same the time and seperately neither worked.

why wouldnt every two weeks work?

You see they have you already on this s--t
All it does is makes money for big pharma and masks your symptoms.
You want to be healthy and all natural.

Testosterone, say Depo-Testosterone have short half life.
In couple/few days not much is left.
You are going for a roller coaster.
When you start talking roller coaster, some docs will give you another bull-st
and will tell you that T fluctuate daily anyhow.
Do not buy that.
Ideally you want shots every day, T on one day then HCG the other day.

After you feel very good for a long time
and still not comfortable with frequent shots
then you may try less frequent,
at least you will have a scale to compare with.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by flyboyiii

if you dont mind me asking... are you an endo dr? or just been on a trt regieme for awhile?
joe

I am 67yo, 5'-9", 165#

This is question that is ok to ask on the forum.
I am not a doctor.
I am helping my self for a last about 5 -7 years,
after sex health specialist at major hospital in Manhattan NYC
pronounced end of my sex life.
This helped me not only in my sex life but also relieved depression that I did not relised I had.

I do have a problem when people talk TRT.
That is very narrow, helps only few people.

For myself I do blood test that is posted on my thread, post#44
here:
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2
Then I attempt making corrections.

Recently I have learned about functional tests done at Genova Diagnistics.

I wish I knew about them before.
I thought I have solved my problems rather well.
Well, not even close.

Short version, do

NutriEval
and
EstroEssence

I report my story with Genova diagnostics on post #44 above and here:
JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy
.
.
============================================
Ask your doc to do Genova Diagnostic testing.
These tests:

NutriEval (saliva, urine, blood)
EstroEssence (first morning urine)

possibly also

Comprehensive Detoxification profile
and
EstroGenomics
============================================
Also spend 2x $20 and study how to read and apply top two tests.
PROLibraries.com - Online Professional Education
-----------------------------------------------------------
NutrEval discussed
EW04 - NUTRITIONAL EVALUATION: Understanding Your Patient's Supplement Needs
A4M :: Conference Library
A4M :: Conference Library
Conference: A4M Las Vegas 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway, MD
December 7, 2006 6:00 pm - 9:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Estroessence discussed:

GS02m - Estrogen Metabolism: Modifying Risk in Clinical Practice
Conference: A4M Orlando 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway MD
Length: 31m 07s - 66 Slides
April 9, 2006 5:00 pm - 5:40 pm
--------------------------------------------------