Hcg As Sole Terapy??

[techytech1]

Im 42, average semi-athletic build..and recently got some bloodwork done. Total test=384. Free test =15. My IGF-1 = 285. Estradiol =33. All other results from my blood work are good...lipids, etc. etc. I have spoken with approx 7 online clinics, all telling me I need to go on 200mg cyp weekly for 10 weeks, the HCG for 4 weeks, with some Arimidex also. Then on and off repeating same..etc. I saw a local MD who specializes in HRT and tells me I need HCG solely for my treatment, with possibly some Arimidex in case I need it. Says I will get in the 700-900 total test range and 150-180 on "free test". What u guys think. Im new here...I respect what you guys know and have been through . Thanks.

[bigjimcalhoun]

I think what your doc is trying to do is make your body create its own testosterone. I think it is a valid goal. My numbers, and my age are close to you. you did not state your LH/FSH numbers. Mine are low, implying that maybe my testes could create the T, if directed to by the pituitary.

I have been told to do HCG by a doc who want me to use his services. I have also spoke with a clinic in Florida who if I went with them, would cycle the T and HCG like you mentioned.

I am going to talk to my doc on Tuesday and ask him his thoughts on this

[techytech1]

Thx Bigjim. The local doctor that I'm seeing got lots of his training at the Cenegenics Institute. From what I gather, they believe that direct test will actually contraindicate Hrt goals by suppressing our "already suppressed" production, this due to the fact that I suffer from "secondary hypogonadism". I am supposed to start my treatment this weekend, along with a change in diet and lifestyle(im gonna quit smoking after 20 yrs) . I also am going to ask him more in-depth questions regarding direct test administration. I will keep you posted on results during treatment..levels, adjustments, etc.

[js21233]

Originally Posted by techytech1

Im 42, average semi-athletic build..and recently got some bloodwork done. Total test=384. Free test =15. My IGF-1 = 285. Estradiol =33. All other results from my blood work are good...lipids, etc. etc. I have spoken with approx 7 online clinics, all telling me I need to go on 200mg cyp weekly for 10 weeks, the HCG for 4 weeks, with some Arimidex also. Then on and off repeating same..etc. I saw a local MD who specializes in HRT and tells me I need HCG solely for my treatment, with possibly some Arimidex in case I need it. Says I will get in the 700-900 total test range and 150-180 on "free test". What u guys think. Im new here...I respect what you guys know and have been through . Thanks.

I would stay away from the online clinics at all costs!!!! 200 mg Test Cyp is an AAS dosage, not advisable for TRT. I know firsthand about those clincis. I did that 200 mg dose, twice, (9) days apart and wound up in the ER for a severe hypertensive incident. They claim I should have been able to handle it and then provided more idiotic feedback about the percentage of patients who do just fine on that dose. Well, I didn't !!!!
Most doctors experienced in "T" administration start at 100 mg; my doc would start you at 60 and work up from there, as need be.
I now use HCG as sole "T" therapy and have done so for the last year. You probably will get at least in the 600-800 range. I only mixed (5) ml of the bacteriostatic water, making the HCG double the potency. You should get your LH/FSH checked to determine if you are suffering secondary hypogonadism, since HCG is a natural LH analog, if your LH is mid range or higher, HCG may not be the best option for you. Whatever you decide, I hope you will stay away from those snake oil salesman telling you to inject 200 mg test cyp a week. Remember, to them it's a business; to you it's your good health they may put at risk. Good Luck....

[techytech1]

Thanks for that info, js. That is exactly what I'm afraid of. There is no way to predict how anybody will react to 200 mg cyp weekly....especially not when the doc who prescribed it has never seen or talked to you and is 1,000 miles away. I agree,,it is a HUGE money-making business. As a matter of fact, 1 of those clinics I spoke to charged me the full price of a year's worth of therapy , sent me my injection schedule and instructions, told me how to inject, etc. etc, before they even took the blood work, got results, or anything. When I asked about this, I was told "I'm pretty sure you are gong to qualify". Wow. I guess they assume we are all looking for a "quick fix" into AAS. If I wanted a "quick fix", I would drive 15 miles south from where I live and get all types of AAS in Mexico. I wouldnt even have to bring it over, just get injected and drive back..for about about the price of a medium pizza. I am gonna go with the local Cenegenics taught doc and do the HCG...and if need be, work my way up..IF NEED BE. Thx for the info.

[farmerjohn]

You don't give you LH and FSH levels but I assume you know you are secondary? I would try the HCG solely first. You have nothing to lose by trying this first. If you can make your own T you are much better off. There is also the possibiltiy the testicles make some other unkown hormone that effects libido. However unlikely its another reason to let them do their thing if they can. If after trying the HCG for a few months you find you can not make enough T then you can supplement with T-cyp. 200 mg/week is way too much as already stated above. Make sure to keep HCG to under 500 iu per day. A suggested starting point would be 300 iu three times a week. The less you can get away with the better.

[Megazoid]

farmerjohm, how would you rate 250iu daily or 500iu 3 times weekly? The amps i have myself are in 1500iu and i am starting to think this dosage would work well for me to restart things (according to a urologist i spoke with online).

[musclepigg]

Originally Posted by techytech1

Thanks for that info, js. That is exactly what I'm afraid of. There is no way to predict how anybody will react to 200 mg cyp weekly....

I'd predict a complete shutdown of the HPTA.

Originally Posted by techytech1

especially not when the doc who prescribed it has never seen or talked to you and is 1,000 miles away. ...

and is thereby breaking the law. A doctor must physically see and examine you at least once before he/she can legally prescribe anything.

Caveat emptor.

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by musclepigg

I'd predict a complete shutdown of the HPTA.



and is thereby breaking the law. A doctor must physically see and examine you at least once before he/she can legally prescribe anything.

Caveat emptor.

Not sure that is the case. I think you can submit a recent complete physical, where another doc has seen and visited with you.

[techytech1]

Right. My understanding is that as long as we submit the medical form and sign off saying we are being honest about it, it is legal. What I am saying is that, for example, I weigh in around 210lbs, am 5'9", and I'm 42. When I have told that to the "online guys", they think I am overweight and possibly obese. I have a 32 inch waist. and about 15% bf. Only my local doc can "see" me and I believe, be able to better help me with my TRT. I am going to give the HCG treatment a try, and of course follow a strict diet and everything else essential for a succesfull program. And the doc told me IF I needed further therapy, he would put me on the gel, and lastly, if ABSOLUTELY neccesary, which he doubts, he'll put me on 100mg -200mg weekly cyp, but only if it is really neccesary. I will keep you posted on my situation as it goes . I really thank you guys for your info, and I hope once I go deeper into the program, I can shed some light on the benefits or drawbacks of HCG-only therapy.

[techytech1]

I am going to start the HCG-ONLY therapy next monday. I have a question. I am to mix a 10000iu vial with 2.5 ml of bact water..then afterwards inject twice a week with .5 ml of solution per injection . If my math is correct, that adds up to about 2000 iu per injection. Or if Im wrong, can someone correct me. I am to do this for 10 weeks then get re-tested. Can somebody shed some light on this. Thx

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by farmerjohn

You don't give you LH and FSH levels but I assume you know you are secondary? I would try the HCG solely first. You have nothing to lose by trying this first. If you can make your own T you are much better off. There is also the possibiltiy the testicles make some other unkown hormone that effects libido. However unlikely its another reason to let them do their thing if they can. If after trying the HCG for a few months you find you can not make enough T then you can supplement with T-cyp. 200 mg/week is way too much as already stated above. Make sure to keep HCG to under 500 iu per day. A suggested starting point would be 300 iu three times a week. The less you can get away with the better.

Hi Farmerjohn
It looks like Dr Shippen have you on relatively high dose of HCG.
Do you have a opinion on 1cc's post below that you could share.
This post stuck with me, looks like dose close to 100iu may be sufficient.
He monitors progesterone to tweak the dose.
Wonder how this progesterone monitoring would work for me, I do not use HCG (yet),
when I was on Androgel 10gram/day, my progesterone was already high, 1.4 (0.3-1.2)ng/dL
I since changed to 7.5mg Androgel.
Not sure if it matters in this context, but my pregnenolone is low, 23ng/dL, LEF recomended range (100-170)
My understanding is that excess HCG goes to produce additional (unnecessary) E2.

1cc's post:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/483048-post24.html

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Hi Farmerjohn
It looks like Dr Shippen have you on relatively high dose of HCG.
Do you have a opinion on 1cc's post below that you could share.
This post stuck with me, looks like dose close to 100iu may be sufficient.
He monitors progesterone to tweak the dose.
Wonder how this progesterone monitoring would work for me, I do not use HCG (yet),
when I was on Androgel 10gram/day, my progesterone was already high, 1.4 (0.3-1.2)ng/dL
I since changed to 7.5mg Androgel.
Not sure if it matters in this context, but my pregnenolone is low, 23ng/dL, LEF recomended range (100-170)
My understanding is that excess HCG goes to produce additional (unnecessary) E2.

1cc's post:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/483048-post24.html

I found out you can 't get a good lab test for pregnenolone you need to test progesterone to tell if you high.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Hi Farmerjohn
It looks like Dr Shippen have you on relatively high dose of HCG.
Do you have a opinion on 1cc's post below that you could share.
This post stuck with me, looks like dose close to 100iu may be sufficient.
He monitors progesterone to tweak the dose.
Wonder how this progesterone monitoring would work for me, I do not use HCG (yet),
when I was on Androgel 10gram/day, my progesterone was already high, 1.4 (0.3-1.2)ng/dL
I since changed to 7.5mg Androgel.
Not sure if it matters in this context, but my pregnenolone is low, 23ng/dL, LEF recomended range (100-170)
My understanding is that excess HCG goes to produce additional (unnecessary) E2.

1cc's post:
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/483048-post24.html

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

I found out you can 't get a good lab test for pregnenolone you need to test progesterone to tell if you high.

I will keep that in mind, when testing pregnenolone.
But I was hoping for higher levels anyhow, since I take 50mg pregnenolone daily.

But about progesterone, I did not even started HCG, yet, and my progesterone is already at 1.4
Wonder what to make of it?
but I guess I will not be able to use it as an inicator of how much HCG to use, as per 1CC's post.
And remember, overdosing HCG raise E2.

[pmgamer18]

Taking 50mg pregnenolone daily is what is driving up your progesterone. I can't find the chat that was posted this is one of them but for women still you can see how Prenenolone converts into other hormones.
http://www.womentowomen.com/images/m...icpathways.jpg