HCG only-Surprising test results and questions-Good post this time!

[Yowzer]

Background:
2 months on 1cc Test cypionate followed by 26 days off
300 IU HGG and .5 aminidex every third day for 6 weeks (HCG could have been weakening with age by 6 weeks)
I had the following Labcorp Test results:
Testosterone 527 Range Age 50 241-827
Free test (Direct) 8.8 Range 7.2-24
Estradiol 16 Range 0-53
LH 6.0 Range 1.5-9.3
FSH 5.9 Range 1.4-18.1

I was surprised that hte FSH and LH were not about zero. At the end of a prior period on Test creme they were. I had expected to need to go on clomid or novaldex to bring them up. Could the HCG have brought them up or invalidated the test result (last dose was day before test)?

Should I be using less Adex?

Is it likely the HGC had weakened or can I assume that my testes were producing their maximum test?
Thanks for any comments!!!!!

I

[pmgamer18]

Yes stop the amimidex your getting to low on your E2.

[chap]

can you make the timeline a little more clear please

my understanding: 2 months of test THEN 26 days of nothing THEN 6 wks of hcg and arimidex THEN nothing ...

how long after the above was the blood test taken?

adex alone will drive up LH and FSH while you are on it

[Yowzer]

Let me make this a little more confusing but precise so ignore the timeline I mentioned before (I also found a couple mistakes in the timing I said). The timing of the blood test was 42 days after the last of 2 months of 1cc test cypionate. However for some reason, I took one last shot of .5cc cypionate 24 days before the blood test (so 18 days after the last of the 1cc injections).
The every 3rd day HCG and .5 mg arimidex began 29 days before the blood test.
Actual dates:
April 3 Last of 2 months worth of 1cc injections
April 16 Began 300 IU HCG every 3rd day continued up to day before blood test
April 21 Lone .5cc Test cypionate injection (I think I did it because I wasn't feeling as well at the time)
May 15 Blood test

Overall, I didn't feel all that different through the whole process although the morning wood seems to have stopped just about the time of the blood test. Maybe HCG losing potency after 1 month?

I am tempted to stay off everything for a while to try to get a good baseline. I had conflicting readings before any HRT:
Dec 2005 Testosterone 13.8 in a range of 10-69 AAL Labs
June 2005 Testosterone 556 free range 217-1107 Quest
Free Test 101 in range of 20-120

I also rarely had morning wood in years and wasn't getting high quality erections without a touch of Viagra (amazing what even 1/8 of a 100 mg pill will do!).

Reviewing this makes me wonder whether I should be bothering to go off HRT to get a better baseline. I'm still inclined to since being on HRTis pretty much for life and because I seem to be rapidly developing a male pattern bald spot which doesn't make me happy. Maybe I didn't have it before because testosterone too low. I'm trying minoxadil now.
Prior to this cycle I had been started on too aggressive a program of 20% Test creme (2cc daily for a month followed by 3 months of 1cc. At end of that cycle, testosterone and estradiol were both just above high end of range.
What do you think I should do next?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Yowzer

Let me make this a little more confusing but precise so ignore the timeline I mentioned before (I also found a couple mistakes in the timing I said). The timing of the blood test was 42 days after the last of 2 months of 1cc test cypionate. However for some reason, I took one last shot of .5cc cypionate 24 days before the blood test (so 18 days after the last of the 1cc injections).
The every 3rd day HCG and .5 mg arimidex began 29 days before the blood test.
Actual dates:
April 3 Last of 2 months worth of 1cc injections
April 16 Began 300 IU HCG every 3rd day continued up to day before blood test
April 21 Lone .5cc Test cypionate injection (I think I did it because I wasn't feeling as well at the time)
May 15 Blood test

Overall, I didn't feel all that different through the whole process although the morning wood seems to have stopped just about the time of the blood test. Maybe HCG losing potency after 1 month?

I am tempted to stay off everything for a while to try to get a good baseline. I had conflicting readings before any HRT:
Dec 2005 Testosterone 13.8 in a range of 10-69 AAL Labs
June 2005 Testosterone 556 free range 217-1107 Quest
Free Test 101 in range of 20-120

I also rarely had morning wood in years and wasn't getting high quality erections without a touch of Viagra (amazing what even 1/8 of a 100 mg pill will do!).

Reviewing this makes me wonder whether I should be bothering to go off HRT to get a better baseline. I'm still inclined to since being on HRTis pretty much for life and because I seem to be rapidly developing a male pattern bald spot which doesn't make me happy. Maybe I didn't have it before because testosterone too low. I'm trying minoxadil now.
Prior to this cycle I had been started on too aggressive a program of 20% Test creme (2cc daily for a month followed by 3 months of 1cc. At end of that cycle, testosterone and estradiol were both just above high end of range.
What do you think I should do next?

1a. TRT actually works, so it is worth to put the required effort, stay organized and ditifully follow procedure.
1. Get organized.
2. spend about a month of time reading old posts here and on http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/
3. looks like you were lucky and found a doctor that writes you scripts for blood tests and medicines, do not worry if he do not have a proper knowledge otherwise
4. the last think in testosterone supplementation is about erection and hairs. More important is to work on healthy body and mind (lack of depression etc)
5. often there is a more than lack of testosterone, to have a hope at finding source of a problem one need good and long blood test
6. supplementing with testosterone either use gels or creams. If you use shots you must do it at least every three days or every other day.
7. your blood test results, the testosterone part, is meaningless because of the way you went about T applications.
8. Post the whole blood test here, post ranges, units, what laboratory did it.
9. You will gain huge advantage if you could do you blood tests at Quest Diagnostics and draw blood at Quest Diagnostics
10. Look how I posted my results, see the items that were covered, try to copy it or improve on it.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...tml#post827550
----------------------------------------------------------------
What HRT are you talking about, spell details, are you also doing steroids?
If yes, this board is not the right place, but there is a sister board here.

If you are on proper and organized and dutifully followed Testosterone replacement therapy, you will get into steady state after about a month to six weeks. Then it makes a sense to do a blood test. No, there is no need to get of therapy to get a "baseline" blood test.

Good luck

[coz]

Originally Posted by Yowzer

Background:
2 months on 1cc Test cypionate followed by 26 days off
300 IU HGG and .5 aminidex every third day for 6 weeks (HCG could have been weakening with age by 6 weeks)
I had the following Labcorp Test results:
Testosterone 527 Range Age 50 241-827
Free test (Direct) 8.8 Range 7.2-24
Estradiol 16 Range 0-53
LH 6.0 Range 1.5-9.3
FSH 5.9 Range 1.4-18.1

I was surprised that hte FSH and LH were not about zero. At the end of a prior period on Test creme they were. I had expected to need to go on clomid or novaldex to bring them up. Could the HCG have brought them up or invalidated the test result (last dose was day before test)?

Should I be using less Adex?

Is it likely the HGC had weakened or can I assume that my testes were producing their maximum test?
Thanks for any comments!!!!!

I

Looks like the HCG was not strong enough to supress your LH, FSH. I would be tempted to either do nothing, or maybe a bit of novladex and/or clomid - and restest in another month.

Your HPTA seems to have bounced back fast from the Test Cyp, so you may get even better numbers in a month.

I would definately try to restart your system, before goin on TRT.

[Yowzer]

JanSz and coz, Thanks for the advice. I have spent a considerable amount of time reding on this board. It has been very helpful.
I don't feel the blood work was wasted because I was off the cypionate long enough for it to be out of my system. Like others, I have wondered whether HCG alone would elevate the T enough.

If so, no point in taking both T and virtually the same amont of HCG to maintain testicle size. Since I wasn't terribly low on total T, does that imply less additonal T if I maintan HCG regularly?

The test also showed me that LH and FSH were not shut down which was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't aware that Adex could boost those.

I am most puzzled by why the Free T came out low. (I have never had a SHBG reding). My only other Free T reading was two years ago before any HRT and was near upper end of range (Quest diagnostics). This low reading was done by Labcorp and was listed as Direct. I think I remember reading that Labcorp had the best method for free T. Is this correct and are other methods potentially way off base?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Yowzer

JanSz and coz, Thanks for the advice. I have spent a considerable amount of time reding on this board. It has been very helpful.
I don't feel the blood work was wasted because I was off the cypionate long enough for it to be out of my system. Like others, I have wondered whether HCG alone would elevate the T enough.

If so, no point in taking both T and virtually the same amont of HCG to maintain testicle size. Since I wasn't terribly low on total T, does that imply less additonal T if I maintan HCG regularly?

The test also showed me that LH and FSH were not shut down which was a pleasant surprise. I wasn't aware that Adex could boost those.

I am most puzzled by why the Free T came out low. (I have never had a SHBG reding). My only other Free T reading was two years ago before any HRT and was near upper end of range (Quest diagnostics). This low reading was done by Labcorp and was listed as Direct. I think I remember reading that Labcorp had the best method for free T. Is this correct and are other methods potentially way off base?

Why you should do your testosterone tests at Quest Diagnostics, and even there make sure that you get:
(Free BioAvailable and Total Testosterone)
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/533890-post45.html

Short cut----- FreeT test done directly give wrong results.

[wildfox]

Yowzer, what brand hcg, and did you keep it refrigerated?

HCG, being an LH analog, will suppress your own LH. Whatever you had wasn't working at all, or you weren't using it right.

[coz]

Originally Posted by wildfox

Yowzer, what brand hcg, and did you keep it refrigerated?

HCG, being an LH analog, will suppress your own LH. Whatever you had wasn't working at all, or you weren't using it right.

It's possible it was not working, or it maybe 300iu every 3rd day was not enough to supress him (as it's not that big a dose)

[Yowzer]

I did keep the HCG refridgerated. It came from a compounding pharmacy-Lowen's drug store in New York.. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice on this. I use Palm Beach Life Extension and they don't charge for advice but make their money by providing the prescriptions.
I beleieve the HCG worked since it brought testicle size back up and my total Testosterone level was a little higher than I would have expected. It may be that it was weak or has weakend further. I'm nearing the end of the bottle after 40 days so I will soon know if there is a change on discontinuing.
I need to do some research to see what might help my free T levels.
Thanks for the feedback and straightening me out on Quest vs. Labcorp.

[wildfox]

You're right about how they make their money.

Ask them to write a prescription so you can go get Novarel at a pharmacy. Walmart pharmacy will likely beat any other prices you get quoted in your area. It has worked for me.

Also, Palm Beach Life Extension is not real healthcare, and if you really have a medical issue, they are not going to help you. Finally, if they have not physically (in person) examined you including at least once touching your body (e.g. to get vitals, check for testicular cancer, etc.) then they are very possibly breaking the law (may be a state or federal law). A doctor cannot make a diagnosis and treat a patient he/she has never seen in person. Not legally.

I bring this up because if you have a medical reason for receiving HCG, they might be screwing you up instead of helping you.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Yowzer

I did keep the HCG refridgerated. It came from a compounding pharmacy-Lowen's drug store in New York.. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice on this. I use Palm Beach Life Extension and they don't charge for advice but make their money by providing the prescriptions. I beleieve the HCG worked since it brought testicle size back up and my total Testosterone level was a little higher than I would have expected. It may be that it was weak or has weakend further. I'm nearing the end of the bottle after 40 days so I will soon know if there is a change on discontinuing.
I need to do some research to see what might help my free T levels.
Thanks for the feedback and straightening me out on Quest vs. Labcorp.

Is this a
LEF.org
I did not know about this service, please give some details.
How do you get advice from them so it ends with prescription?
Do you have to be touched by their advisor?
I live close to NYC, they may have office there.
Detals, details.

[Yowzer]

Palm Beach Life Ext is not affiliated with LEF. They do not perform a physical exam although I made sure I had a prostate exam from my regular doctor. They certainly did not inform me of the various side effects of Test treatment in advance although they did provide serms. They aren't doing people any fovor operating the way they do, but finding a good local Dr. into this seems very difficult, even once you know its importance. I had very little good info until I found this forum.
PBLE struck me as catering to the weightlifting crowd, requiring only once per year blood tests and providing heavy doses of Test. I seem to have gotten some rapid hair loss from the higher dose and discontinuing Adex due to joint pain (which later turned out to be due to HGH which I have discontinued). So now, I am pretty much self directing-getting medications from PBLE and voluntarily getting blood tests through them or LEF.
I may try to see Dr. Chrisler when I go to Michigan this summer. Fortunately, my only obvious issues seem to be slightly low Test and decades long low grade depression and low energy which is what led me to testosterone. I believe that has been improving over the past 18 months as I have started DHEA, CoQ10 (I had tested low for both with a progressive allergy doctor) and other supplements.
The testosterone supplementation has been the last 7 months and I am not certain whether there has been a further depression improvement but there has been a significant improvement in sexual function.
So now I'm hoping to figure out whether I can get my test up enough naturally. This is where I wish I had a better baseline. I had a bottom of range AAl Reference Labs test result in December 2005 and in June 2005 I had a Quest testosterone of 556 (range 217-1107) and Free Test of 101.2 range (20-120). Despite this respectable reading in June 2005, I don't believe I have had morning wood in many years (actually I'm not sure I remember ever having it regularly).
I appreciate your interest in this. I noticed that you have provided a great service to many people on this board as well as on anabolics.com. Thank you!

[Yowzer]

JanSz, On the issue of Free Test results, it is discouraging that LEF uses the Lab corp test which your link showed could be wildly inaccurate. LEF seems to have a great deal of credibility with the alternative medicine crowd, so its surprising to see this. Its also a little discouraging that their male panel doesn't test DHT, SHBG and probably other hormones useful for TRT evaluation.
Would you put any weight on my bottom of range Free test result from Labcorp?
Thanks