head doc

[mxim]

talking to my endo,he says that his main concern ragarding T injections is the initial spike in levels that we get just after the shot. for example,100mgs might spike our levels to 1000 the first 2 days and then settle in the 600's. his concern is the constant initial high dose of test and its effect on the prostate. in other words,how does the prostate react to constantly getting hit with a high dose of test every week over a long period of time/ i know we are still withing range but the first 2 days we are probably above 900 ng.any thoughts?

[HeadDoc]

the doc raises a valid point about being superphysiologic for a few days. Now is this clinically significant? I believe testing the PSA is one way of finding out. Testosterone reaches its highes level within the first 48 hours after the injection. I wonder what he suspects are the players in prostrate cancer. Estrogen, dht, test to estrogen ratio? If the concern is on the estrogen side of the equation, you could take the first dose of armidex on day two. This could also be a high dose, like .5 mg arimidex. Then the AI could be lowered thru the other doses. Say .5 mg on day four and .25 mg on day six.

On the other hand, the two docs that I've worked with have looked at the 1300 level total on blood work done on day 2 and thought it was irrelevant.

Since my own hypogonadism is more secondary or metabolic, I rely more on hcg than the test. cyp. Over time, I've lowered the test cyp from 100 to 50. I also do small more frequent shots of hcg. 100mg OD for the last 5 days. This is just a protocol I've worked out with my docs.

Remember that tst. alone does not account of prostrate cancer. If that were true, than every young male would have prostrate cancer.

These are just my thoughts and you know I'm not a physican.

[mxim]

i agree head doc. that said,i've read that if man lived long enogh,they would all get prostate cancer. the question remains;is prostate cancer to testosterone as breast cancer is to estrogen? i've also read that a man's T level lowers as he gets older because thats the body's way of protecting itself from prostate cancer.

[HeadDoc]

Originally Posted by mxim

i agree head doc. that said,i've read that if man lived long enogh,they would all get prostate cancer. the question remains;is prostate cancer to testosterone as breast cancer is to estrogen? i've also read that a man's T level lowers as he gets older because thats the body's way of protecting itself from prostate cancer.

there does appear to be this parallel between males and females. My wife and myself both take I3C and a homocysteine formula that contains tmg and folic acid. I have taken a prostate combo supplement from Pure Encaps for a few years. Testosterone decreases as we age for a number of reasons. This is especially true of free or bioavailable testosterone. Males also need to be protected from the increased amount of estrogen created through aromitizaton. This was certainly true in my case. At one point in my late 50's my estrogen profile looked better than my wife's.

[mxim]

do you subscribe to the philosophy that it is estrogen that is the culprit with prostate cancer? 've heard that estrogen can increase the body's sensitivity towards dht.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by mxim

talking to my endo,he says that his main concern ragarding T injections is the initial spike in levels that we get just after the shot. for example,100mgs might spike our levels to 1000 the first 2 days and then settle in the 600's. his concern is the constant initial high dose of test and its effect on the prostate. in other words,how does the prostate react to constantly getting hit with a high dose of test every week over a long period of time/ i know we are still withing range but the first 2 days we are probably above 900 ng.any thoughts?

I feel the big problem is the Dr. your seeing a Endo. I have no use for them I have seen 7 in the last 21 yrs. and not one of them was any good for treating Low T. If you do the creams or gels then you may not get your levels up high enough. One needs there Total and Free t up in the upper 1/3 of there labs rang. I have been on every kind of TRT from pills, shots, patch on testis, patchs, gels, pellets, and now shots and HCG. Doing the shots with HCG has me feeling the best I ever felt in over 21 yrs. Read this and print it out high lite the part on shots to be given every 7 to 10 days and show it to him. It is old school to say what he just said maybe if you were doing shots the old way 400 mgs. every month or 200 mgs. every other week yet the only side effect doing that was feeling like you were on a roller coster ride. I did shots this way never had a problem with prostate.
http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

[mxim]

you old are you pmgamer?

[Vforcer2]

If my memory serves me correctly, High T levels are not really the issue of Prostate cancer or Benign Prostate Enlargement, but rather high Estrogen levels are the true enemy. Seems like I read an article in Life Extention Magazine (best health magazine I have come across) or www.lef.org about that recently.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by HeadDoc

Since my own hypogonadism is more secondary or metabolic, I rely more on hcg than the test. cyp. Over time, I've lowered the test cyp from 100 to 50. I also do small more frequent shots of hcg. 100mg OD for the last 5 days. This is just a protocol I've worked out with my docs.

Headdoc,

Would you clarify. Is it 100iu HCG every day for the last 5 days? Is it 50mg T Cyp per week?

Thanks.

[Weatherlite]

I've read HD's regimen before...yes that's 50mg of Test and 100 IU's of HcG.

I see one thing that seems to have been left out about T and the prostate. Once BPH or cancer has been identified TRT is to be stopped as it has been shown that high levels of T can exacerbate the problem. I do believe that once the cancer is gone (and I mean gone for good) or the BPH is under control then T can be brought back into the equation.

And yes Vforcer, E2 has been implicated previously.

[HeadDoc]

Originally Posted by 1cc

Headdoc,

Would you clarify. Is it 100iu HCG every day for the last 5 days? Is it 50mg T Cyp per week?

Thanks.

yes. As I'm not a physican, this is not a protocol I'd recommend. It works very well for me.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by HeadDoc

yes. As I'm not a physican, this is not a protocol I'd recommend. It works very well for me.

I recall that your T Cyp dose was around 80mg for a while. Did you test and come back too high? Are your results better now than before?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by mxim

you old are you pmgamer?

I am 61 yrs. young.

[HeadDoc]

Originally Posted by 1cc

I recall that your T Cyp dose was around 80mg for a while. Did you test and come back too high? Are your results better now than before?

Yes I had a few labs at 1300 and decided on my own to start lowering it. My doc was not concerned given the variable levels thru the course of the week. Turns out I didn't need as much to achieve the same outcomes.

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by Weatherlite

I've read HD's regimen before...yes that's 50mg of Test and 100 IU's of HcG.

I see one thing that seems to have been left out about T and the prostate. Once BPH or cancer has been identified TRT is to be stopped as it has been shown that high levels of T can exacerbate the problem. I do believe that once the cancer is gone (and I mean gone for good) or the BPH is under control then T can be brought back into the equation.

And yes Vforcer, E2 has been implicated previously.

The most recent article (dang I wish I could figure out where it is) stated that the ceasing of the TRT was due to the E2 conversion which causes the BPH and cancer. In fact, the article said that T and
DHT (I think) have a profoundly positive impact on the prostate, and that cancer cells could not grow in thier presence, but rather grows in the presence of excess E2. I could be off, but that was the gist of the most recent article I read.

If I get time, I will try to find the article.