igf-1 and trt

[christophchicago]

I have been on TRT for approx. 4 weeks now, new labs coming up soon, and was curious as to the effect " standard " TRT ( i.e. 100 mg test cyp IM weekly, 250 IU HCG 5th and 6th day sub q , no E2 meds as of now) has on IGF-1 levels. Prior to begining TRT, my labs showed an IGF-1 of 185 ng/dl, I am not sure of the range on this test. I am 40 yrs old btw. Is this low and will TRT cause an increase ( hopefully )? I believe a level between 300 and 450 is considered desirable

[christophchicago]

I cannot seem to find much material on this matter, and results seem a little vague on what I did find.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/77/3/776
Anybody have any empirical data on this ?

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by christophchicago

I have been on TRT for approx. 4 weeks now, new labs coming up soon, and was curious as to the effect " standard " TRT ( i.e. 100 mg test cyp IM weekly, 250 IU HCG 5th and 6th day sub q , no E2 meds as of now) has on IGF-1 levels. Prior to begining TRT, my labs showed an IGF-1 of 185 ng/dl, I am not sure of the range on this test. I am 40 yrs old btw. Is this low and will TRT cause an increase ( hopefully )? I believe a level between 300 and 450 is considered desirable

FYI, If E2 goes to low your IGF-1 will go down. I stay at about 280-312 both pre and post HRT, except when my E2 was to low. HGH seems to be the only hormone I produce well...which I find odd.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

HGH seems to be the only hormone I produce well...which I find odd.

It's not a steroid hormone. That may have something to do with it.

[Matt Muscle]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

FYI, If E2 goes to low your IGF-1 will go down. I stay at about 280-312 both pre and post HRT, except when my E2 was to low. HGH seems to be the only hormone I produce well...which I find odd.

Yes that is a great level..how old are you?

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by Matt Muscle

Yes that is a great level..how old are you?

I will be 40 in May.

[wildfox]

IGF-1 comes from insulin right? So wouldn't that level have more to do with how much your body is producing insulin to deal with blood sugar levels? Can anyone explain how they are related to androgens or estrogens?

WF

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by wildfox

IGF-1 comes from insulin right? So wouldn't that level have more to do with how much your body is producing insulin to deal with blood sugar levels? Can anyone explain how they are related to androgens or estrogens?

WF

I do not have any specific knowledge on this, but can say on my last blood test, my insulin levels were BELOW the range, so they were LOW.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

I do not have any specific knowledge on this, but can say on my last blood test, my insulin levels were BELOW the range, so they were LOW.

And that's a good thing.

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by cpeil2

And that's a good thing.

Yep!

[stat1951]

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I ( IGF-1) is one of those hormones that has a "normal range" based upon one's age (which tends to mean that the range is simply BS as you get older). To my knowledge, it isn't actually manufactured from insulin (though I might be mistaken in that regard).

LEF has a chart of comprehensive testing processes and their reference ranges at:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-...prtcl-072.html

Here's what they chart out as reference ranges at that site:

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I ( IGF-1): This test is used to determine acromegaly, in which somatomedin-C (Sm-C) and growth factor (GH) are increased. It is also used to evaluate hypopituitarism. Sm-C is a polypeptide hormone produced by the liver and other tissues, with effects on growth promoting activity and glucose metabolism (insulin-like activity). Sm-C is carried in blood bound to a carrier protein which prolongs its half-life. Its level is therefore more constant than that of growth hormone. Low values are measured with advanced age. Low values may indicate hypopituitarism, malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, Laron dwarfism, hypothyroidism, maternal deprivation syndrome, pubertal delay, cirrhosis, hepatoma, and some cases of short stature and normal GH response to pharmacologic tests. Low values may be found with nonfunctioning pituitary tumors, with constitutional delay of growth, and with anorexia nervosa. High values occur with adolescence, true precocious puberty, pregnancy, obesity, pituitary gigantism, acromegaly and diabetic retinopathy. Since Sm-C is decreased with malnutrition, its concentration provides an index with which to monitor therapy for food deprivation.

Reference Interval:
Females/Males (Age) Range (ng/mL)
18 163-584
19 141-483
20 127-424
21-25 116-358
26-30 117-329
31-35 115-307
36-40 109-284
41-45 101-267
46-50 94-252
51-55 87-238
56-60 81-225
61-65 75-212
66-70 69-200
71-75 64-188
76-80 59-177
81-85 55-166

Some info cited on IGF-1 and its relationship to HGH (not saying how legit this information is, simply posting it):

What is IGF-1?

Human growth hormone is the primary hormone made by the pituitary gland. HGH is released into the bloodstream in brief bursts at various times, the majority of HGH is released during deep sleep... Once in the bloodstream, HGH stays there for only a few minutes, just long enough to stimulate its uptake into the liver where it is converted into growth factors. The major growth factor is called IGF-1, (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1). IGF-1 is also known as somatomedin C... Growth factors are small proteins produced by the body, they regulate cell growth and specialization and control the metabolic processes. Growth factors enable cells in the immune, nervous and hormonal systems to coordinate their growth and cell functioning and they support cell regeneration... Many actions of HGH are brought about as a result of the growth factors, in particular IGF-1. HGH seems to be the general with the growth factors, including IGF-1 being the soldiers who actually do the work on the cellular level... It is IGF-1, rather than HGH that is used to measure how much HGH the pituitary gland is releasing. IGF-1 is responsible for the majority of benefits associated with HGH. IGF-1 is 10 times more potent than human growth hormone and is now under investigation as a separate drug for many of the same indications as HGH...

Unfortunately I saved that info but didn't note the link to the info site.

Another site containing interesting IGF-1 info:

http://www.igf-one.com/report.html

According to Endocrinology Vol. 140, No. 4 1901-1910 (Copyright © 1999 by The Endocrine Society), Testosterone DOES increase IGF-1 levels... at least in mice!

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/140/4/1901

There is some information that Deprenyl (selegiline) can restore IGF-1 levels:

http://www.deprenyl.net/Deprenyl/deprenyl-5.htm

Finally, high levels of cortisol generally cause drastically lowered - extremely lowered - levels of IGF-1 (most Cushing's patients have quite low IGF-1 and many end up on mandatory HGH therapy because of that), and it is not uncommon for hypogonadal males to have lower levels of IGF-1.

Yet with significant hypercortisolism AND hypogonadism, my initially tested IGF-1 levels were around 425 (I'm in my mid 50s)... and were consistently in the high 300s. With going on TRT (at realistic doses), my IGF-1 actually came down slightly (haven't had it tested for a while, but last testing was around a 360).

Go figure.

Possibly the body trying to compensate for whatever the heck has been going on?

Anyway, hope this info helped.

Larry

[wildfox]

Thanks for the correction and information, stat1951.

WF

[Vforcer2]

Originally Posted by stat1951

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I ( IGF-1) is one of those hormones that has a "normal range" based upon one's age (which tends to mean that the range is simply BS as you get older). To my knowledge, it isn't actually manufactured from insulin (though I might be mistaken in that regard).

LEF has a chart of comprehensive testing processes and their reference ranges at:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-...prtcl-072.html

Here's what they chart out as reference ranges at that site:


Some info cited on IGF-1 and its relationship to HGH (not saying how legit this information is, simply posting it):


Unfortunately I saved that info but didn't note the link to the info site.

Another site containing interesting IGF-1 info:

http://www.igf-one.com/report.html

According to Endocrinology Vol. 140, No. 4 1901-1910 (Copyright © 1999 by The Endocrine Society), Testosterone DOES increase IGF-1 levels... at least in mice!

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ull/140/4/1901

There is some information that Deprenyl (selegiline) can restore IGF-1 levels:

http://www.deprenyl.net/Deprenyl/deprenyl-5.htm

Finally, high levels of cortisol generally cause drastically lowered - extremely lowered - levels of IGF-1 (most Cushing's patients have quite low IGF-1 and many end up on mandatory HGH therapy because of that), and it is not uncommon for hypogonadal males to have lower levels of IGF-1.

Yet with significant hypercortisolism AND hypogonadism, my initially tested IGF-1 levels were around 425 (I'm in my mid 50s)... and were consistently in the high 300s. With going on TRT (at realistic doses), my IGF-1 actually came down slightly (haven't had it tested for a while, but last testing was around a 360).

Go figure.

Possibly the body trying to compensate for whatever the heck has been going on?

Anyway, hope this info helped.

Larry

Larry, thanks for the posted research and info. It was interesting.

Since your IGF-1 levels are consistently high, do you look young for your age, have soft supple skin, less wrinkles, above average muscle mass, better immune system, etc?

[novice]

My IGF-1 is 255 and I am 27 years old. I always thought TRT raises IGF-1. Would I benefit from HGH?

[stat1951]

Originally Posted by wildfox

Thanks for the correction and information, stat1951.

WF

No prob....

As you can see, with my situation, it's a topic that I have some personal interest in!

Larry

[stat1951]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

Larry, thanks for the posted research and info. It was interesting.

Since your IGF-1 levels are consistently high, do you look young for your age, have soft supple skin, less wrinkles, above average muscle mass, better immune system, etc?

Unfortunately I don't know what my IGF-1 levels were before this hypercortisolism / hypogonadal condition developed.

So were my levels consistently high over my lifetime? Or have they been elevated just since this condition as a part of my body's response to fight that condition?

1. Do I look young for my age? Hmmm.... I like to think that I do a little bit....

2. Soft supple skin? Definitely not.

3. Wrinkles? Hmmm... no, not really. (Light brown hair / mustache have definitely turned white/gray however!)

4. Above average muscle mass? Yes, definitely. But was into power lifting and heavy weight training up until my second round of neck / spinal surgery in 1998, and have retained quite a bit of muscle mass.

5. Immune system? Seems to be a toss up. I seem to get slightly less flus or colds than the family in general, but then when I do get a bug it seems to last longer.

Larry

[stat1951]

Originally Posted by novice

My IGF-1 is 255 and I am 27 years old. I always thought TRT raises IGF-1. Would I benefit from HGH?

255 is mid range for age 27, fairly close even to being in the "upper quarter" (which would be pretty much the optimal range). Since your age range is 117 - 329, the upper quarter of that range would be from 276 - 329, so I think your levels are actually pretty decent.

Personally I believe that TRT does improve IGF-1 levels, but as with most natural hormonal changes, it's a pretty slow steady process. Personally I would think that benefits of HGH would be minimal, but then I'm a layman so that's strictly IMHO as based on the numbers.

BTW, personally I would ignore the ranges at the higher age levels and focus on aiming for a range that would be considered optimal for the age group(s) of 26 - 35... something in the range of 275 - 350.

As relates to the HGH, there's a thread discussing some cautions as to the prescription of HGH...

Using HGH to lower SHBG

Growth Hormone Deemed Illegal for Off-Label Antiaging Use - Medscape, 10/28/05 - "1988 and 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) make off-label distribution or provision of GH to treat aging or age-related diseases illegal in the U.S."

Oct. 28, 2005 — Growth hormone (GH) is illegal for off-label antiaging use, according to an article in the Oct. 26 issue of JAMA. This article reviews the literature concerning the uses and adverse effects of GH as well as the legal ramifications of selling, using, or prescribing it.

"Prescribing and administering GH has become a routine intervention in an industry that is variably called anti-aging, regenerative, longevity or age management medicine," lead author Thomas Perls, MD, MPH, from Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts, said in a news release. "Hundreds of thousands of patients who have received GH in recent years as a purported treatment for aging are unaware that they are receiving the drug illegally."... The FDA has approved GH only for GH deficiency-related syndromes causing short stature in children, adult GH deficiency caused by rare pituitary tumors and their treatment, and muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV and AIDS... "Off-label use for many drugs is a normal and accepted practice in medicine, but that is not true for growth hormone," says coauthor S. Jay Olshansky, PhD, from the University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health. "According to laws instituted by Congress more than 10 years ago, HGH can only be distributed for indications specifically authorized by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and aging and its related disorders are not among them. The use of HGH as an alleged antiaging intervention is a major public health concern not just because it is illegal, but also because its provision for antiaging is not supported by science and it is potentially harmful."... Although GH, unlike anabolic steroids, is not a schedule III drug, Congress specifically authorized the Drug Enforcement Agency to investigate offenses related to HGH distribution. The penalties for distribution or provision of GH for antiaging purposes may include up to five years in prison, or 10 years if the offense involves a minor, with fines of up to $250,000 for an individual or $500,000 for an organization, or alternatively, twice the gross gain or loss from the offense, in addition to forfeiture of property used in or derived from violations of the HGH law...

Larry

[novice]

Wow that sounds serious. I thought HGH was commonly prescribed for antiaging purposes.

[HeadDoc]

Originally Posted by novice

Wow that sounds serious. I thought HGH was commonly prescribed for antiaging purposes.

based upon need HGH is prescribed for antiaging purposes by physicans trained in antiaging medicine. Not enough docs are trained in antiaging medicine.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by novice

Wow that sounds serious. I thought HGH was commonly prescribed for antiaging purposes.

One of the approved indications for GH is adult growth hormone deficiency secondary to hypopituitarism. Since the appearance of the JAMA article, the A4M is taking the position that GH deficiency in an adult is a reliable sign of hypopituitarism, i.e. that any adult whose IGF-1 level (and therefore their GH level) is low has a diseased pituitary gland.


I don't know anything about diagnosing pituitary problems. That may be a reasonable position. But I'm not sure the FDA and/or the DOJ will be persuaded.