Interesting - beginning to find where my prob lies...

[ASaxon]

Usually, from my experience, BioT tests come back with SHBG and Albumin because usually are calculated values. They can measure BioT directly but they don't normally do that because of the expense since the calculated values are just as accurate. Curious that they didn't give you SHBG and Albumin from that test. How was the test done, was it a direct measurement of BioT or was it a calculated value? My BioT tests always come back with TT, BioT and SHBG.

I do agree that SHBG usually doesn't fluctuate much as my SHBG has remained at the bottom ref. range marker through all my tests so I wouldn't imagine that this fluctuates all that much. But a swing from 5 to 16 isn't all that much so perhaps that's the difference.

[Ruper]

OK, either way I think to really understand what is happening as you increase TT, you need to get EVERYTHING at various (even more than just two) TT levels. Then you might see one of the other factors changing dramatically (probably not albumin).

The fundamental problem still somewhat confusing because to actually reduce freeT while increasing TT significantly would entail a huge change in SHBG (with albumin constant). As ASaxon said, this sounds very unusual. I've only had two SHBG results, but with wildly different TT, and they came within 10% of each other (TT-250, SHBG-50; TT-1458, SHBG-55).

But you really need a series of complete lab tests as you change and stabilize dosages. Piecing together bits from different tests over the course of months when you obviously have something strange going seems like it is only going to lead to more confusion.

[Ruper]

Actually, my two results never added up using the calculator, I had to put in much larger SHBG values to get the 'measured' freeT.

Test 1

TT - 252
FreeT% 0.94
SHBG - 50
Albumin 4.7

I need to put in SHBG=88 to get that %FreeT

The only 'problem' with this test was that they messed up a couple of the bood samples, so I went back a few days later. They re-drew 3 out of the 7 test tubes I had taken and I don't know for sure that the above tests all came from the exact same draw. At the time it was not important for analysing the results.

Test 2
TT - 1458
FreeT% 1.47
SHBG - 55
Albumin 4.6

I need to put in SHBG=76 to get that %FreeT

This was definitely from the same draw.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by zadok

Phil,

Thanks for the reply

I know that TT is too low, but like I have explained before if I raise my TT anymore than what it is FT goes down. I am most comfortable this way, until i find the cause of the problem

Estrogen is not a problem. this has been discounted from every angle E2, total E, E1, E3 have all been measured and are ok. Just to make sure i have experimented with all types of estrogen control - symtoms only worsen.

Like i said above Bioavailable test is too high. I can gaurantee you that if i was to raise my TT to high normal, say 20nmol/l then Bioavailable test would become about 80% of this FT would be low and SHBG would still be exceptionally low.

Zadok

Read this link it is full of info on using herbs to get Free T up higher.
http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/hormones.html

[Ruper]

Originally Posted by ASaxon

Now I'm confused, you are right that Albumin is in g/dL not g/L. I read the units incorrectly on my lab report. But the conversion was right 46 nmol/L converts to 4.57333 g/dL. Plugging that into the calculator you get:

Albumin: 4.57333 g/dL
SHBG: 5 nmol/L
Testosterone: 10.5 nmol/L

Free Testosterone: 0.369 nmol/L = 3.51 %
Bioavailable Testosterone: 9.17 nmol/L = 87.3 %

Since his measured BioT was 7.07 nmol/L that would mean that something doesn't add up. SHBG would have to be higher than 5 to bring BioT down to 7 nmol/L. In fact, it would have to be around 16.

I'm wondering if we're just guessing at his albumin and SHBG rather than using values that were actually measured from the same blood draw. Hmmmm... Perhaps Zadok can clarify where the Albumin and SHBG values came from. Did they come from the same blood test draw or are we guessing based on previous tests?

OK, so they were from different tests. But to get those numbers SHBG would have to be 12 and albimin 3.6 (to get both bio and freeT%).

Now that would show quite a variability.


I have to say though, I've now put a number of peoples posted labs through that calculator and many do not fit it at all. Many require much larger SHBG.

[ASaxon]

I put some of my T values in the calc and it was relatively close and I put some others of mine it and it wasn't . Perhaps the tests just aren't as accurate as we would hope they are. :-( I've heard people say only look at trends so this may be the reason. :-)

[Ruper]

Originally Posted by ASaxon

I put some of my T values in the calc and it was relatively close and I put some others of mine it and it wasn't . Perhaps the tests just aren't as accurate as we would hope they are. :-( I've heard people say only look at trends so this may be the reason. :-)

Could well be. Also there is quite a bit of variation in reference ranges (although I don't see any pattern). So perhaps between some inaccuracies and adjustments for particular equipment and methodology, using that calculator may just be confusing.

For instance if I adjust my last results to a scale of 240-820 instead of 250-1100 - i.e. X 0.75, I get TT=1080. Put that in with SHBG 55, and I get a free% of 1.7 instead of 1.47 - In the ballpark probably. How acurate can one measure freeT? - plus then there are the lab ranges for that to consider - I've seen some with a larger 'normal' range than 35-155 (units?), although the % range was 1-3%.

Who knows????

[Ruper]

I wonder if handling and transportation have an influence, particularly is one form or compount is more fragile than another. Supposed to be stable for a week, but could handling be an issue?

I know my samples go 1/2 way across the country.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

[zadok]

Also, my Free Androgen Index calculation does not work at all. When calculating this you divide TT by SHBG. I get a very large value then for FAI, which infers that FT is very high. So again this proves that calculations are not always accurate.

[zadok]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Read this link it is full of info on using herbs to get Free T up higher.
http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/hormones.html

link doesnt work? i would really like to see this

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by zadok

link doesnt work? i would really like to see this

It could be your Virus Scan so here is cut & paste.
a herbal treatment for hormone induced prostatitis (and secondary hypogonadism)



INTRODUCTION:

This non profit site is directed to herbal balancing of hormones in the aging male for the purpose of eliminating and or reducing health issues such as prostatitis, hair loss, urinary tract problems testicular atrophy / degeneration and mood changes. Some 70% of men over age 40, and many younger, can resolve all such problems with the use of a combination of herbal supplements. Most find relief in just 3 days.

Let there be no mistake in the conclusion that most hormone issues in aging men are caused by low total testosterone (secondary hypogonadism) and or low free testosterone. Low means low normal and not just results outside the range given by the lab.

Created 02-02-2002 Updated 2-22-2006



LINKS OF INTEREST: Please link to this page and these below.

How I Cured Candida Of the Digestive Tract: http://www.geocities.com/hcraiga/candidacure.html

How I Cured Bacterial Prostatitis: http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/index.html

Safari Hunting Africa: http://www.geocities.com/marlon3320/...E-BUFFALO.html

Men Marriage And Financial Castration. A self help guide for men only: http://www.geocities.com/hcraiga/


MALE ANDROPAUSE HORMONE BALANCING

THE INFORMATION IN "a herbal treatment for hormone induced prostatitis" IS NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN. ANYONE SEEKING TO TAKE ANY OF THE THERAPIES DISCUSSED IN THIS SECTION, OR ANYWHERE ON THIS WEB SITE, SHOULD ONLY DO SO UNDER THE CARE OF A PHYSICIAN OR OTHER HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL.

Hormone replacement is inaccurate for men as it is actually hormone balancing and supplementation which men must accomplish. Women need replacement in later life as the female body at menopause stops making hormones all together. Men on the other hand generally change the balance of hormones resulting elevated levels of certain negative hormones thereby causing prostatitis, hair loss, mood change and numerous other age related issues.

FAST START TREATMENT AND TESTING PROCEDURE

PHASE ONE:
Buy a bottle of soy isoflavones, preferrably tablets that can be broken in half. (Walmart, Spring Valley brand works good.) Take one half isoflavone in the morning and one half in the evening for three days. (On the first day you can take two or three at the same time and then drop back, works faster.) Increase the dose every three days by one half tablet until you find the optimal dose for symptom relief of urgency and prostate issues. Keep records of your symptoms. This will tell you whether estradiol is a factor in your prostatitis. You can stay on this supplement indefinitly. More is not better.

PHASE TWO:
If you still have symptoms after finding the right dose of isoflavones buy a bottle of saw palmetto, raw fruit, not extract. The extracts are often too strong. While still using isoflavones start taking one pill in the morning and one pill in the evening. Increase your dose by one pill every three days until you find the perfect dose. More is not better. Take a one week break from saw palmetto every month. This will tell you whether DHT is a factor in your prostatitis.

NOW READ THE REST OF THE ARTICLE TO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES


-MALE ANDROPAUSE, MID LIFE CRISIS AND HORMONAL PROSTATITIS: Men in their mid 40's go through what most laugh at as mid life crisis. This is often a hormone related change in personality. Before you let your doctor put you on prozac or some other mind altering narcotic try what attacks the problem: Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root, Isoflavones, DHEA, Maca Root, Tribulus, Oats Extract, acidophilus and or a variety of other supplements!

This hormonal change is caused by the production of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estradiol (E) in an ever increasing abundance. It is believed that the prolactin hormone is increased in the male body with age because less and less free T is available due to the effects of SHBG which ties up the free T (and or due to lower levels of total T). In turn the prolactin pushes up the DHT to offset the lack of available free T. DHT is about 4 times more powerful than regular T and causes the prostate to start growing plus causes many painful side effects. The E becomes out of sync with the total T level also causing issues.

This slow "demasculination" of men with age has numerous negative consequences, including but not limited to hair loss, fatigue, fat gain, muscle loss, insulin/diabetes, gynecomastia, and prostate enlargement, prostate pain, lowered libido, impotence, low ejaculate volume, testicular atrophy / degeneration,urgency of urination, dry or retrograde ejaculation and, oh yes, sever and painful prostatitis.

Saw Palmetto reduces production of dihydrotestosterone and prolactin its catalyst. This can have a significant impact on the male personality while Nettle Root and oats extract reduces estradiol levels and inhibits SHBG respectively. DHEA stimulates hormone production. Together, these and many other alternative supplements can be used to reduce and often completely negate these negative effects of aging.

Research this issue carefully before entering into a self treatment program with herbs. A comprehensive hormone panel should be taken to measure blood levels of free and total testosterone, estradiol, total estrogens, luteinizing hormone, IGF-1, prolactin, DHEA, and several other hormones.Testing the adrenal glands, hypothalamus and thyroid are also very important. Seek help from an endocrinologist and generally not a urologist. Homeopathic practitioners often are more helpful in treating such issues with herbs. Prescription testosterone supplements, HGH and HCG should not be ruled out.

Tests should be performed monthly until symptoms are stable or until 6 months have passed and then 2 to 4 times a year thereafter. See: http://musclemonthly.com/print/01051...nt-therapy.htm

Remember that normal doesn't mean anything in hormone testing. You must find what is normal and comfortable for your body. One man may be comfortable with a T level in the low normal range and another be sick in the mid level range needing to be in the high range. This takes a lot of time and experimentation. Don't ever let a Dr. tell you that you are normal if you have any andropausal symptoms.

If the tests show a low total T or the total T in the lower half of normal for your age range you must consider T supplementation. Normal is a very subjective word in testing. Falling into the low normal range may very well indicate your causative issue. Thus, low total T is usually an indication of the need to boost the T level and T boosters are noted in the lower area of this paper. Low total T and low Luteinizing hormone is best treated by DHEA and Tribulus recipies shown below.

If your tests show average or high total T but low normal or low free T then you must focus on the DHT and SHBG blockers (Maca root and green oats extract formulas.).

Combining one each of three groups of the following supplements is most effective for proper treatment. First, and the easiest to use is the DHT blockers which block the d-alpha reductase enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT. Second are the anti-aromatase supplements that block the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone into estradiol. Third are the phytoestrogens that take the place of estradiol and cause excretion of the excess estrogen in the body. Phytoestrogens have about 1/500 the strength of regular estrogen so this plant estrogen is really good for men if not taken to the point that all estrogen is eliminated. Remember estrogen drives the male libido so it is good and healthy to have estrogen. Men just don't want too much.The same goes for DHT which is a necessary hormone for sexual function and metabolism.

GROUP I: ANTI DHT

a. Saw Palmetto, 1/2 level teaspoon of frozen dry raw powder weighs 1100 mg*Most effective
b. Pygeum, 1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs 1100 mg
c. Hydrangea root,1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs 1000 mg

GROUP II: ANTI AROMATASE

a. Chrysin
b. Quercetin
c. Nettle root?,1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs 800 mg
d. Dimm or Di-Indolin or Diindolylmethane or Diindolymethane (sic)*Most effective
e. Apigenin
f. Naringenin
g. Methoxyisoflavone
h. Zinc
i. Arimidix

GROUP III: PHYTO ESTROGENS

a. Isoflavones, soy or clover- red clover at 1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs 700 mg
b. Flax seed oil
c. Soy protein or soy products in general
d. Ipriflavone
e. Nettle root, 1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs 800 mg
f. Quercetin?
g. Green tea

GROUP IV: TESTOSTERONE BOOSTERS

a.Tribulus
b. Maca Root
c. DHEA
d. Oats extract
f. Testosterone supplements
g. HGH
h. HGC
i. Clomid (clomiphene citrate) and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) Effexor ER(venlafaxine hcl)
j. Chaste berry (vitex agnus)
k. 5-HTP

One supplement from each of groups 1 to 3 is generally combined to effectively battle the DHT and E issues. The hardest part of treatment is to establish the correct dosage of each. Generally you will need only one E blocker. However combining one that is anti-aromatase and the other from the phytoestrogen family will improve effectiveness. E is no tougher to fight than DHT and combining two has much better results but makes it harder to dose. Experiment, document and never give up.

Use symptoms associated with excess E or DHT to help dose if you can't get proper testing. I use the coldness of feet, nipple size and libido to predict my level of E. Cold feet at night and lowered libido mean too much E which in turn means that I must increase my anti-estrogen or reduce the anti-DHT. Caution, isoflavones whan taken without the anti-DHT can also cause cold feet (DHEA can help with the cold feet and the low testosterone issue). DHT causes hair loss and difficulty in urination along with sharp prostate pain for me. Thus, more DHT blocker or less E blocker is warranted. These are somewhat fickle symptoms as E can cause similar issues as DHT. Generally excess E causes more of a buring prostate pain which coincides with the cold feet at night. If you really want to know what symptom is caused by DHT then use a high dose of anti-aromatase for about 3 days which will artificially pump up the DHT. If you want to know what E does then use a high dose of anti-DHT without any other supplement for a few days. The DHT blocker may negate all symptoms as it pumps up the E level and for many will shut down the prostate and make you feel fine temporarily (some find complete relief for as long as 9 months and only then symptoms of E dominance will manifest). For most it will create a new group of negative symptoms that should be documented as associated with E.

Large and soft nipples, the size of half dollars generally indicates too much estrogen and or too little testosterone. On the other hand small hard, rock hard nipples the size of a dime is an indication of too little estrogen and or too much testosterone.

Powder vs. Pills: Not all nutritional supplements are the same. Many do not live up to the label with purity. I prefer the raw powdered herb and then adjust dosage based upon potency of that batch. The standardized extracts are not very consistent and difficult to dose because they are in pill form. All pills are hard to dose as most require about 2 to 6 pills per day. Changing dose from 2 to 3 pills per day is a 50% increase in quantitiy. Thus, my strongest suggestion is to buy bulk powdered herbs and dose down th the 1/10 of a gram. Then buy bulk from a supply house that guarantees fresh product such as HERBALCOM: http://www.herbalcom.com/index.php3

When buying pill or extracts (chrysin) which don't come in bulk buy from a lab that guarantees analysis and that offers access to tests to back it up. Twin Labs is a good one as is GNC and GENN.

Buy a gram scale that measures down to the 1/10 of a gram, I found mine on ebay for $45. Then buy bulk from a supply house that guarantees fresh product such as HERBALCOM: http://www.herbalcom.com/index.php3 Mix the powder with a liquid or applesauce before administration.

The alternative to the gram scale is a measuring spoon set. This is very cheap and quite accurate if each spoon is leveled with out packing. The general rule is that each 1/2 teaspoon full is 700mg to 1200mg.The weight isn't too important as it's the final dose that counts. Once you get close it's easy to adjust based on volume. Mix the raw powder with apple sauce or some liquid for administration. What ever you do don't try to eat raw powder from a spoon as it will cause choking.

Take 1/2 of the daily dose in the morning and 1/2 of the daily dose in the evening.

When establishing a dosage start with the levels suggested below and then change the dose for one supplement at a time for 3 days at a time to see if you get the necessary benefit. Carefully document. As you get close to optimum dosages it may take 6 days for each dosage change to see if its going to work.

When using pills try to have one supplement that you can use to adjust the anti estrogen dosage easily. For example flax seed oil can be easily managed as it comes in an 8 oz liquid form. Thus, one can go from a few drops a day to 2 tablespoons per day.

-Seven day break: I strongly suggest that supplements are used 21 days on and 7 days off to avoid building a tolerance and side effects. The seven day break means a break from everything including zinc and the vitamins.Go cold turkey for as long as you can on the 7 day break. I have found that immediately starting with ibuprofen or aspirin at 2 in the morning and two in the afternoon will make the 7 days go easier for the prostatitis sufferer. Start such immediately and you will get by longer than if you wait for pain and swelling to start. In the alternative use progesterone and alternative recipes on the break instead of the anti inflammatories. Use the break to test new formulas and dosages.

-Fasting: Use fasting to determine which nutritional supplement works best and which foods irritate the prostate and other health conditions the most. Go on a bland diet with minimal calories for at least 3 days and then add one new food each 2 or 3 days to see what causes the most problems. A bland diet may consist of rice , apple sauce, water packed tuna, boiled or broasted lean hormone free meat and so on. Use the same with your herbal remedies to see what helps the most.

RECIPES(all recipes list amounts based upon raw dried powdered herbs. Low numbers are maintenance and high humbers are more theraputic in nature. Each person much constantly re-evaluate their needs as the body heals and ages. For some the DHEA and supplements in the first paragraph will be sufficient to solve most of the issues. Thus, start slowly and see what you need after you are on DHEA for a few weeks.)

I use the following in addition to all the recipes below:
50 mg of zinc with copper,
200mc of selenium,
400 units of vitamin E acetate,
32 oz water in the morning and again in the afternoon

PROSTATITIS RECIPES

I split the recipes into 2 parts with half in the morning and half in the evening. Use for three weeks on and then take a one week break.

My daily recipe: I use 1400 to 2000 mg of hydrangea root (raw powder), 1000 to 4000 mg of nettle root (raw powder).

-My second daily recipe: In place of hydrangea root in the first recipe above I use 1600 to 2200 mg of pygeum or 1400 to 2200 mg of saw palmetto and change the following 500 mg of quercetin and 1000 to 2000 mg of nettle root . Of course you need to spread it out over the day as best as possible. Use for three weeks on and one week off. Or use this for the one week off.

-My third daily recipe: In place of hydrangea root and nettle root in the first daily recipe above I use 500 mg of quercetin plus C and 2000mg of saw palmetto. Adjust using isoflavones which takes about 0 to 4 pills per day.

-DIM recipe: I use 1/2 to 2 dim Tablets per day with food. (Double strength dimm by Enzymatic Therapy) and 1800 to 2400 mg of saw palmetto. Excellent recipe and easy to monitor. Dimm is very strong and absorbs easily with food so over dosing is likely. Over dosing can cause retrograde (dry) ejaculation, loss of libido, strong lasting erections but difficulty reaching ejaculation and urgency of urination. Be careful with this one if you drink green tea and or use a lot of soy protein.

TESTOSTERONE BOOSTING RECIPES FOR SECONDARY HYPOGONADISM
(LOW TESTOSTERONE)

EXCELLENT HERBAL TESTOSTERONE RECIPE

-Morning:

-One to two soy isoflavone capsules or tablets plus 12-75mg DHEA, and 625 mg tribulus extract (Twinlabs) plus 0-2200mg saw palmetto raw powder. I pull the tribulus capsule apart if needed to split the dose in two for the first week.

-Afternoon or Early Evening:

12-75 mg DHEA and 625 mg tribulus extract (Twinlabs) plus 0-2200 mg saw palmetto raw powder (not an extract) and one to two soy isoflavone capsules or tablets. ( raw powder hydrangea root or pygeum can also take the place of saw palmetto.)


-Explaination: Note that the isoflavone may be substituted for other such herbs such as nettle root, chrysin, quercetin, ipriflavone, muira pauma, green tea, roibois tea,DIMM or any other phytoestrogen. I found DIMM the best at increasing total Testosterone level which is logical as it blocks conversion from estrogen to E. I use 12.5 mg of pure DIMM (50mg of DIMM at 25% purity.) in the evening.

Tribulus may need to be at 1/2 dose for a week or so while the testicles become acclimated to producing extra testosterone and may require up to 3 pills per day at 8 hour intervals to bring you to normal. Always take tribulus with food as it is a fiersom stomach irritant. Some mild testicular discomfort is experienced for the first week but will go away. If testicular pain continues adjust your doseages and take with food.

Saw palmetto may need to be used in both morning and evening for the first week or so until the testosterone production goes up to normal and then probably continued (the fortunate may be able to stop saw palmetto while on this formula). Fatigue will result if you take saw palmetto when you don't need it.

DHEA is best dissolved between the upper lip and gum for at least 15 minutes. Once T levels rise to nornml levels DHEA my not be needed. Yet some can get along just fine with DHEA alone at 75 to 100 mg per day.

As with all herbs use for 3 weeks on and 1 week off to avoid building a tolerance..

A GOOD TESTOSTERONE BOOSTING RECIPE

-Morning:

-2.2 grams maca root, 12-25 mg DHEA, 1/2 or 1 soy isoflavone capsules

-Mid afternoon:

-1.1 to 2.2 grams maca root, 12-25 mg DHEA, 1/2or 1 soy isoflavone capsules, 50 mg zinc and 50 mc vitamin B6.

-Bed time:

-1.1 to 2.2 grams maca root, 12-25 mg DHEA, 1/2 or 1 soy isoflavone capsules, 450-900 mg saw palmetto for use if you wake up with urgency of urination but generally this formula needs no saw palmetto. (It seems to work a little better to use 250 mg of quercetin at bed time instead of the isoflavone.)

-Explaination: As with all herbs use for 3 weeks on and 1 week off. This makes for a good one week off recipe. Saw palmetto may be necessary for a few days (three days is sugested) until you build up to normal level of free T.

The dose of maca raw powder is above what most suggest but it does so well for me that I have stuck with it. Note that the maca hardly worked at all when using it without DHEA. With DHEA Maca is wonderful. DHEA alone is only marginally helpful until you get to the higher dose of 100 mg per day. So use your own judgment. I like the 12mg DHEA dose and take maca some 4x per day in somewhat smaller doses. Again, DHEA my not be needed after a week or so, or may be the only thing you need. Be flexible with your formula.

The goat weed really works well with this recipe and you can occasionally use 1/2 to 1 gram in combination when you want some extra sexual boost.

The isoflavone can be dropped and any variety of supplements used in its place such as nettle root, muira pauma, chrysin, green tea, DIMM and so on. Zinc may reduce your need for isoflavone.

All herbs are raw powder and NOT extracts. Some suggest 100 mg per day of DHEA but I fear such may suppress the bodys own natural production of something else. My research indicates that DHEA supplements do not inhibit the body's own production of DHEA unlike other hormones. If you take T supplements the body will slow down T production, pronto. Thus, DHEA should be safe and should not suppress other hormones. I am skeptical and proceed slowly.

BEST LIBIDO BOOSTING RECIPIE, BUT COMPLICATED

-6AM : One tribulus by Twinlabs(625mg) or two tribulus by Natrol(500mg) with food. . 700mg St Johns wort. 0-2200 mg saw palmetto.

-2 pm: One tribulus byTwinlabs (625mg) or 2 by Natrol (500mg) with food. 700mg St Johns wort. 0-2200mg saw palmetto.

-10pm: One tribulus by Twinlabs (625mg) or two tribulus by Natrol with food. (500mg) . 800mg nettle root.0-2200mg saw palmetto.

Explaination

Pygeum works great with this formula when urgency of urination is experienced. So does hydrangea root. Using the 8 hour intervals levels the hormone level so keep on schedule. DHEA is usually used for at least the first week at about 50-75mg per day. You may need more nettle root if your body wants to convert T to E.


-St Johns Wort should be added to any recipe that causes anxiety or where stress or anxiety are high at that time in the individual's life. It also seems to have an anti-estrogen effect so you can reduce your use of isoflavones etc. It is also thought to reduce prolactin which causes excess DHT production.This herb reduces anxiety and can negate negative side effects of many herbs plus ease the stresses of a hectic life. Anxiety is thought to intensify pain and lower testosterone levels. Very safe and cost effective if purchased in bulk. Dose at about 2500 mg per day more or less. You don't need to micro manage this herb. 1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs about 700 mg and 2 to 3 doses per day of 1/2 tsp is usually ok. I personally believe that it increases the testicular size and testosterone output ever so slightly. Perhaps because it stimulates serotonin production.

ANTI-DHT SUPPLEMENTS

-SAW PALMETTO (most over dosed and not a cure for testicular atrophy) is an ancient American Indian herbal remedy that will provide relief from most dihydrotestosterone (hereinafter DHT) related problems prostate pain, urgency of urination and male andropause symptoms. For many this is a miracle herb providing complete relief within 3 days or less. By those who have used both it is considered 10x better than the leading prescription Proscar. (Pygeum bark extract and hydrangea root are alternatives to saw palmetto.Green tea may also have similar properties along with anti-estrogenic effects.. Other natural alternatives are also available.

TESTICULAR ATROPHY AND SAW PALMETTO: LET THERE BE NO MISTAKE THAT SAW PALMETTO IS NOT A TREATMENT FOR TESTICULAR ATROPHY BUT MAY ACTUALLY CAUSE TESTICULAR SHRINKAGE IF USED WITHOUT AN ANTI-ESTROGEN HERB. NOTWITHSTANDING ALL THE ARTICLES ON THE INTERNET SHOWING THAT SAW PALMETTO IS A CURE FOR TESTICULAR ATROPHY IT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT NOT EFFECTIVE FOR THAT ISSUE. ONE MUST LOOK TO LH BOOSTERS SUCH AS TRIBULUS, MAYBE MACA ROOT AND HORNY GOAT WEED FOR SUCH.

Using saw palmetto to treat male andropause takes much less of the herb than to treat prostatitis so don't over do it. In my experience there is a magic spot for saw palmetto dosage. For me 1.8 grams per day will cause prostate pain and let my hair fall out by the hand full but 2.3 grams per day will shut down my libido and make me feel like the neutered cat laying by the fireplace with feet that just can't stay warm. (Note that some men experience a greatly enhanced libido with the higher dose of saw palmetto. This is probably due to increased levels of E which drives the male libido. Yet others will suffer complete loss of libido probably due to the combined effect of low DHT and high E.) Ergo, buy a gram scale and meter it down to the 1/10 of a gram. You should almost always use an anti-estrogen supplement with any of the DHT blockers to counter the increase in estradiol and reduce the need for saw palmetto. Nettle root and isoflavones are the best known and most cost effective anti-estrogen supplements for use with saw palmetto. When used in conjunction you can usually cut saw palmetto usage close to half but eventually you will cycle to the point where a theraputic dosage is needed again. Get monthly hormone tests until you stabilize.

Warning: saw palmetto may actually slow the healing process when treating with antibiotic for prostate infections. This herbal remedy blocks or inhibits testosterone thereby shrinking the prostate. In the end less antibiotic rich blood enters the prostate during the antibiotic treatment. It may be better to take pain killers while on antibiotics and hold off on the saw palmetto until later. No research is available on this issue but it worked for me.

Very safe with no real side effects. The only caution is that most over or under dose this herb. Generally 2 grams per day is more than enough of the raw fruit. About 1400 to 1800 mg per day is excellent if you combine it with an anti estrogen program. At first most use about 2400 mg as theraputic to allow the body to heal. The need will wax and wane with age, sexual habit and other hormone therapy. Since DHT is needed for metabolism you may experience fatigue when taking too much. I have personally experienced such to the point that I could barely stay awake during the day.

The improper dosing is usually caused by hoax labeling. Read the label carefully as the dose on the label may mean one pill per day or it may require 2-4 pills several times per day. You must be diligent to read the label or you never will get it to work. Again, the standardized extracts have never been very reliable and are not recommended. Many buy the standardized extract thinking there is no difference or that it is better.

Saw palmetto may also lower the metabolism which usually manifests by a lowered body temperature and weight gain. Monitor your results to acquire the optimum dosage with lowest side effects. Clearly more is not better. This lowered metabolism may be caused by a reduction in free testosterone in the blood and an increase in estrodiol. See Chrysin below..

Duration of saw palmetto use depends on the type of prostatitis. Some poorly documented studies show that after 6 months to a full year the treatment is no longer needed to take care of prostatitis. Many find that its effectiveness fades after 9 months of continuous use and then change over to other DHT blockers combined with E blockers. Some lucky men can cut does to one day on and one day off and some even one day on and 2 off after several months of treatment. Eventually the problem will build up again requiring a more theraputic dosage.

Why saw palmetto cures the prostatitis problem after six months is a total mystery and probably a false finding. As is the usual course no research has been performed on this subject. My theory based on personal experience and discussions with other sufferers is that it allows the prostate to go dormant and rest thereby allowing the body to cure itself and remain strong enough to stave off the negative effects for a few months. Most can go off for a few months or weeks without problems but eventually do go back on after a period of time when the symptoms compound.

-Pygeum Bark (greatest side effects) is not as strong a DHT blocker as saw palmetto and has an upset stomach incident rate of about 13%. It is very popular in Europe and may work in a manner somewhat different than saw palmetto and for several different reasons. Dose at about 2 grams per day more or less if used alone. It is often mixed with saw palmetto and nettle root in various prostate formulas. Should be used with an anti-estrogen supplement. I experienced significant side effects of headaches and anxiety when using the raw powder. It may be that an extract will avoid some side effects. I used it with St. John's Wort to reduce the anxiety. Pygeum is the only DHT blocker that actually had an improvement on the libido.

At least one study indicates that pygeum is a mild antibiotic.

-Hydrangea Root: is said to contain beta sisterol much like pygeum and saw palmetto. It is a lesser known treatment but written up as effective. I experimented with such and found that it has anti inflammatory properties and worked wonderfully with few side effects. It is number one on my list of DHT blockers for the one week break. Dosage is about 1.8 grams per day if used alone. Generally should be used CAUTIOUSLY with anti-estrogen supplements which may reduce the dose needed for maintenance yet each batch and person will vary. HYDRANGEA MAY BE A POWERFUL ANTI ESTROGEN.



- ANTI ESTROGENS: (Caution, good prostate health requires estrogen. Eliminating all estrogen will cause pain and damage to the prostate.) With the exception of the prescription medications most anti estrogens are weak and yet inexpensive so they can be combined to effectively solve the estradiol issues. The best combination is usually achieved with nettle root combined with either quercetin, an isoflavone or DIM. For most a daily dose of zinc and an isoflavone is all that is needed. Men have a small amount of estrogen so it is rather easy to over dose with this stuff. Still it is excess estrogen, usually estradiol that causes the pot bellies on older men. Estrogen promotes laying on of abdominal fat.

Remember that a diet high in tea, legumes such as soy and beans may be giving you plenty of anti-estrogens already. Be cautious of anti-estrogens if you already have a high soy diet or drink a lot of tea, especialy green tea. Go slowly and in small increments so you know what is happening. Stay on any one dose for at least 3 days and preferrably 6 days before making a decision.

Experiment, document and never give up. Again more is not always better as over dosing will cause many negative effects much similar to that with which most prostate sufferers started such as urgency of urination and prostate pain. Overdosing can cause loss of libido, testicular pain, prostate pain, dry ejaculations, and loss of erections in the morning.

-QUERCETIN may be an excellent alternative to nettle root. It has anti-estrogenic properties that seem to be dose related and has been the subject of some studies concerning prostate cancer. It is written up as having anti-aromatase properties and perhaps anti-DHT properties. It clearly inhibits estrogen receptors much like isoflavones and blocks the aromatase enzyyme. 500 mg to 2000 mg per day is effective for many and vitamin C or bromaline may increase effectiveness. It also may improve the effectiveness of Chrysin. I generally dose at 750 mg per day or less. It is hard to dose as it usually comes in 250 mg capsules which result in a 33% increase or decrease with only one capsule addition or deletion. This is another reason why I like powdered herbs that can be metered down to the 1/10 of a gram.

May cause sun sensitive eyes and some joint pain especially at doses up to 1500 mg. It also tends to cause a general feeling of malaise for the first few days or week. After about 2 weeks of higher dose use I could no longer use this supplement due to the sun sensitivity. It may be a better supplement to take the place of some isoflavones than a stand alone anti estrogen. It also helps the mood as I have far less anxiety when using Q. This is subjective and at dose of 750 mg. I don't know if a mere 250 mg per day will help with mood. Thus, in cases where pygeum is used causing anxiety, Q may be an excellent supplement.

-BROCCOLI TREATMENT has been reported effective in many prostatitis cases. This may be true because broccoli contains a lot of quercetin and vitamins which have a synergistic effect. See the link that follows: http://www.prostatitis.org/broccindex.html

-Chrysin: (most powerful and most expensive anti E) This nutritional supplement blocks the transformation of testosterone to estrodiol thereby increasing free testosterone and balancing the hormone level.. Use three weeks on and one week off. Always take this supplement on an empty stomach with a glass of water. It absorbs very poorly. When using chrysin you may need to adjust the level of saw palmetto as more T will try to convert to DHT. Or you may need to reduce your saw palmetto as symptoms related to excess estradiol may go away thereby eliminating some symptoms previously treated by saw palmetto. Dosage depends on the individual's physiology and yet most need about 1400 to 2000 mg of saw palmetto or pygeum or hydrangea to balance this supplement. The rule of herbs is: More is not always better.

While the sellers of chrysin may indicate that 1 to 3 grams daily is ok, it is my experience that a mere 250 mg per day has significant effects on sexuality and the most you should use is 500 mg per day as long as you take it on an empty stomach. Every person's physiology is different so you must experiment especially due to the difference in absorption of various brands and brand quality. Chrysin with piperine will absorb more readily and make any other supplements taken at the same time absorb more readily.

It is also thought that quercetin when taken with chrysin will enhance the estradiol blocking effect greater than if taken alone.

Chrysin the happy pill: In a study published in Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior (1994), mice were injected with diazepam (Valium), chrysin, or placebo to evaluate the effects such substances had on anxiety and performance. Chrysin produced anti-anxiety effects comparable with diazepam, but without sedation and muscle relaxation (301). Chrysin produced a relaxing effect in the brain, but without impairment of motor activity. The mechanism of action of chrysin was compared to diazepam aka Valium, and was shown that unlike diazepam, chrysin can reduce anxiety without inducing the common side-effects associated with benzodiazepine drugs. At least it works for mice. My experience with both Chrysin and Quercetin indicates that such do reduce anxiety significantly when taken at a higher dose.

Estrogen management alternatives include green tea, zinc, soy isoflavones, flax seed oil, cactus flower(opuntia), diindolin, chamomile or apigenin, nettle root, ipriflavone and weight loss. I suggest nettle root or soy isoflavones as the best and most cost effective alternative.

-Fat loss: The aromatase enzyme, which converts T to E, lives in fat tissue with the highest amount of aromatase found in abdominal fat. Weight loss will thereby reduce the estradiol levels.


-Soy Isoflavones (least side effects) interfere with estrogen receptors in the prostate. Suggested dose is 50 to 100mg per day(1 to 6 pills depending on brand). This is difficult to dose based upon the mg listing on the bottles. So many have deceptive labels which show the mg of isoflavone extract rather then the total isoflavone content. It is suggested that you simply buy one brand and stick with it so as to know how many pills are needed. As always more is not better. Over dosing on isoflavones will cause a sore prostate in some and even urgency.

Very safe with no known side effects.

You may be able to use soy protein isolate which is high in isoflavones depending on the batch. Soy protein concentrate is however devoid of isoflavones. So know the difference.

Isoflavones may cause cold feet and hands when taken alone in high doses which is a sign of over dosing.. DHEA may help treat an over dose.

- Nettle Root (most economical) may also interfere with estrogen receptors and may be anti aromatase. Best when used in combination with another anti estrogen and an anti DHT . It is written up as a third rate prostate remedy when used alone but in my opinion it is as important in treating prostate and hormone issues as is the DHT blocker. Never give up until you try nettle root as it is the most economical and easiest to dose because it takes 1 to 6 grams per day whether used in combination or alone. This is my favorite anti-estrogen herb.

-Muira Pauma: Is touted as a libido enhancing herb but in reality is just another Nettle Root. It seems to be a very powerful anti-estrogen and is dosed at about 1 to 2.5 grams per day. It probably hase some libido boosting properties involving nitrogen uptake but its mode of action is still anti-estrogen.

-Red Clover Blossoms: Contain phytoestrogens (isoflavones)much like soy products. 1400mg per day is about right to replace the soy isoflavones capsules. This will vary greatly with potency of the batch as clover can be up to 10 times stronger than comparable sources. Be careful of long term use as the clover contains a natural blood thinner. Short term use is best. Dosages at up to 5 grams per day as the sole anti estrogen have not been effective. Yet at 1400mg per day it is an excellent compliment to the anti aromatase supplements especially nettle root. I do not suggest its use.

-Flax Seed Oil: Is suggested to reduce the negative effects of estrogen on the prostate and a one to two tablespoon dose per day is sufficient. This is a good supplement to micro manage the anti E doseages as it comes in 8-12 oz. bottles of liquid. The gel caps are not very economical. See:

-Ipriflavone is another type of phyto estrogen this takes the place of real estrogen thereby reducing the overall E level and influence. Considered effective, reasonable priced and safe.

DIM: (MOST POWERFUL) Di-Indolin or Diindolylmethane or Diindolymethane (sic) is probably the most powerful of the anti-aromatase supplements. Actually not anti-aromatase at all but stops estrogen from changing into estradiol. In my experience it is at least 2 to 3 time more poweful than chrysin. Probably due to its absorption rather than its action. Double strength dimm by Enzymatic Therapy and DIM by Natures Way are the only products I tried and were too effective causing causing urgency of urination and a number of side effects. You will need to have your anti-DHT level re-adjusted if using this supplement plus eliminate all phytoestrogens. Once I eliminated phytoestrogens from my diet and started with just a half pill a day I had excellent results. It will improve the T level. The key is to not use too much. Just a few cups of green tea was sufficient to cause an over dose with DIMM.

-Zinc: See below.

PREDICTION: Some day chrysin other anti-aromatase and anti E nutritional supplements and drugs will be as important to men in fighting prostatitis and old age as saw palmetto is today. That is if some day researchers finally educate the medical community that an inappropriate balance of testosterone, estradiol and DHT are causing age related problems in the aging male. Right now all I know is that the stuff really works for me.