Lab Results Critique Needed, Please

[richyrich]

I just got back from the doctor and would like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this board. Some history, I first cycled 7 years ago. Went from 6'3", 135lbs, 8%, to 215lbs, 12% now. The last year I was on nothing until 4 months ago when I went on Test and Growth Replacement. I use to cycle upwards of 1 gram total gear. Test Enanthate and Deca mostly.

The problem I have is I always bloat on test. Moon face mainly. I have been playing with as little as 100mg of test cyp injected weekly broken into to 2 shots 4 days apart. I take real brand Arimidex 1mg every other day and I still bloat. It fuckin sucks. Moon face sucks because the good looks go away. Less looks from the lady crowd, you know. So, right now, this is what I take:
50mg test cyp every 4 days
1mg real arimidex every other day
3 units of Humatrope daily
45mg of actos (for insulin resistance instead of insulin for the growth)
45mg of Winstrol (just started, I cycle with this and make good gains while on TRT)

I feel great, but the bloat sucks. I just ordered nolvadex to try to block the receptor sites. Will see what happens.

Diet is pretty clean with occasional junk food (ie. pizza), no soda, lots of water. 2,500 - 4,000 calories a day. Multi-vitamins, probiotics, protein shakes, lots of chicken, egg whites, milk, etc.

Train 4-5 days a week, only weights with minimal rest between sets to get a bit of cardio.

32 years old.

Todays lab results.

Urine - all tests in range
Glucose - 97 65-99
Creatinine - .9 .5-1.5
BUN - 18 5-26
Sodium - 139 135-148
Potassium - 4 3.5-5.5
Chloride - 100 96-109
Carbon Dioxide - 26 20-32
Calcium - 9.3 8.5-10.6

Cholesterol Total - 172 100-199 I did not fast, might be compromised.
Triglycerides - 449 0-149 I did not fast, but this is bad.
HDL - 4 40-59 I did not fast, but this is bad.

DHT - Results pending.

TSH - 2.1 .35-5.5

Testosterone - 647 241-827

IGF1 - 317 115-307

Estradiol - 7 0-53

Cortisol - 11.4 3.1-22.4

Prolactin - 4.7 2.1-17.7

Estrogen - 268 40-115 Right here, always high. Previous result was 448.

SHBG - 5 13-71 Something going on here probably.


So, obviously I convert test easily to estrogen. Even when on Arimidex. I'm gonna try Nolvadex every day at 10mg. What I'm doing right now works for me. I am gaining, but the damn bloat even at low levels of test pisses me off. When I used to to cycle 800 test 400 deca I use to look like a puff fish and really didnt gain and had no appetite. Used to like the strength though. Knowing that was not good on health and was getting me no where, I am happy with what I am currently taking. Low doses do work. I just need to get rid of the puffy face. Suggestions and experience, please.

[Ruper]

Have you tried counting the amount of sodium in your diet. I too have a clean diet, but was shocked when I easily got to 4g/day from sauces, a bit of salsa etc.. on just 2000-2500kcal/day. Just cutting out the worst offenders and substituting some low-sodium optioned helped my bloat tremendously. If you are eating a lot of eggs and milk, you'd perhaps be surprised how quickly it can add up. Add a can of tuna and some condiments and 5+g/day is easy.

I gained about 20lb of water when I started TRT. Now if I go on vacation, or don't watch sodium intake as closely, I'll put on about 3-5lb in a week. Nolva didn't do anything for my bloating, but perhaps worth a try.

[pmgamer18]

I read some where that the moon face is a side of HGH talk to HeadDoc about this. Your E2 is way to low stop the arimidex and let your levels come back up you need to be at about 15 to 20 pg/ml. You should not add Nolvadex when taking Arimidex. Are you having morning wood at this low of an E2.

Originally Posted by richyrich

I just got back from the doctor and would like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this board. Some history, I first cycled 7 years ago. Went from 6'3", 135lbs, 8%, to 215lbs, 12% now. The last year I was on nothing until 4 months ago when I went on Test and Growth Replacement. I use to cycle upwards of 1 gram total gear. Test Enanthate and Deca mostly.

The problem I have is I always bloat on test. Moon face mainly. I have been playing with as little as 100mg of test cyp injected weekly broken into to 2 shots 4 days apart. I take real brand Arimidex 1mg every other day and I still bloat. It fuckin sucks. Moon face sucks because the good looks go away. Less looks from the lady crowd, you know. So, right now, this is what I take:
50mg test cyp every 4 days
1mg real arimidex every other day
3 units of Humatrope daily
45mg of actos (for insulin resistance instead of insulin for the growth)
45mg of Winstrol (just started, I cycle with this and make good gains while on TRT)

I feel great, but the bloat sucks. I just ordered nolvadex to try to block the receptor sites. Will see what happens.

Diet is pretty clean with occasional junk food (ie. pizza), no soda, lots of water. 2,500 - 4,000 calories a day. Multi-vitamins, probiotics, protein shakes, lots of chicken, egg whites, milk, etc.

Train 4-5 days a week, only weights with minimal rest between sets to get a bit of cardio.

32 years old.

Todays lab results.

Urine - all tests in range
Glucose - 97 65-99
Creatinine - .9 .5-1.5
BUN - 18 5-26
Sodium - 139 135-148
Potassium - 4 3.5-5.5
Chloride - 100 96-109
Carbon Dioxide - 26 20-32
Calcium - 9.3 8.5-10.6

Cholesterol Total - 172 100-199 I did not fast, might be compromised.
Triglycerides - 449 0-149 I did not fast, but this is bad.
HDL - 4 40-59 I did not fast, but this is bad.

DHT - Results pending.

TSH - 2.1 .35-5.5

Testosterone - 647 241-827

IGF1 - 317 115-307

Estradiol - 7 0-53

Cortisol - 11.4 3.1-22.4

Prolactin - 4.7 2.1-17.7

Estrogen - 268 40-115 Right here, always high. Previous result was 448.

SHBG - 5 13-71 Something going on here probably.


So, obviously I convert test easily to estrogen. Even when on Arimidex. I'm gonna try Nolvadex every day at 10mg. What I'm doing right now works for me. I am gaining, but the damn bloat even at low levels of test pisses me off. When I used to to cycle 800 test 400 deca I use to look like a puff fish and really didnt gain and had no appetite. Used to like the strength though. Knowing that was not good on health and was getting me no where, I am happy with what I am currently taking. Low doses do work. I just need to get rid of the puffy face. Suggestions and experience, please.

[jawbone]

how about that HDL?? Did I read that right? 4?

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by jawbone

how about that HDL?? Did I read that right? 4?

Looks like it, TAKE FISH OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by richyrich

I just got back from the doctor and would like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this board. Some history, I first cycled 7 years ago. Went from 6'3", 135lbs, 8%, to 215lbs, 12% now. The last year I was on nothing until 4 months ago when I went on Test and Growth Replacement. I use to cycle upwards of 1 gram total gear. Test Enanthate and Deca mostly.

The problem I have is I always bloat on test. Moon face mainly. I have been playing with as little as 100mg of test cyp injected weekly broken into to 2 shots 4 days apart. I take real brand Arimidex 1mg every other day and I still bloat. It fuckin sucks. Moon face sucks because the good looks go away. Less looks from the lady crowd, you know. So, right now, this is what I take:
50mg test cyp every 4 days
1mg real arimidex every other day
3 units of Humatrope daily
45mg of actos (for insulin resistance instead of insulin for the growth)
45mg of Winstrol (just started, I cycle with this and make good gains while on TRT)

I feel great, but the bloat sucks. I just ordered nolvadex to try to block the receptor sites. Will see what happens.

Diet is pretty clean with occasional junk food (ie. pizza), no soda, lots of water. 2,500 - 4,000 calories a day. Multi-vitamins, probiotics, protein shakes, lots of chicken, egg whites, milk, etc.

Train 4-5 days a week, only weights with minimal rest between sets to get a bit of cardio.

32 years old.

Todays lab results.

Urine - all tests in range
Glucose - 97 65-99
Creatinine - .9 .5-1.5
BUN - 18 5-26
Sodium - 139 135-148
Potassium - 4 3.5-5.5
Chloride - 100 96-109
Carbon Dioxide - 26 20-32
Calcium - 9.3 8.5-10.6

Cholesterol Total - 172 100-199 I did not fast, might be compromised.
Triglycerides - 449 0-149 I did not fast, but this is bad.
HDL - 4 40-59 I did not fast, but this is bad.
DHT - Results pending.

TSH - 2.1 .35-5.5

Testosterone - 647 241-827

IGF1 - 317 115-307

Estradiol - 7 0-53

Cortisol - 11.4 3.1-22.4

Prolactin - 4.7 2.1-17.7

Estrogen - 268 40-115 Right here, always high. Previous result was 448.

SHBG - 5 13-71 Something going on here probably.


So, obviously I convert test easily to estrogen. Even when on Arimidex. I'm gonna try Nolvadex every day at 10mg. What I'm doing right now works for me. I am gaining, but the damn bloat even at low levels of test pisses me off. When I used to to cycle 800 test 400 deca I use to look like a puff fish and really didnt gain and had no appetite. Used to like the strength though. Knowing that was not good on health and was getting me no where, I am happy with what I am currently taking. Low doses do work. I just need to get rid of the puffy face. Suggestions and experience, please.

DIM+I3C+TMG+resveratrol+Calcium Dglutarate to control and modify estrogens

Fish oils to get HDL better

Clomid, Nolva to possibly raise SHBG

[jawbone]

sorry guys but fish oils aint gonna help HDL subfractions to any measurable degree.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by jawbone

sorry guys but fish oils aint gonna help HDL subfractions to any measurable degree.

what will??

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by jawbone

sorry guys but fish oils aint gonna help HDL subfractions to any measurable degree.

It actually is, I have shown remarkable improvement in HDL levels in 3 months in taking flaxfish and borage 3,6,9 omegas. I have had really no diet change whatsoever. That is why most people take fish oil, it has been proven to increase HDL levels, unfortunatley not so much on decreasing LDL chol. There are some studies on it too. That is the main reason why it is a multi million dollar industry. FISHOIL

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by Ruper

Have you tried counting the amount of sodium in your diet. I too have a clean diet, but was shocked when I easily got to 4g/day from sauces, a bit of salsa etc.. on just 2000-2500kcal/day. Just cutting out the worst offenders and substituting some low-sodium optioned helped my bloat tremendously. If you are eating a lot of eggs and milk, you'd perhaps be surprised how quickly it can add up. Add a can of tuna and some condiments and 5+g/day is easy.

I gained about 20lb of water when I started TRT. Now if I go on vacation, or don't watch sodium intake as closely, I'll put on about 3-5lb in a week. Nolva didn't do anything for my bloating, but perhaps worth a try.

At my list of all possibilities, this is one of them which I will try next. Eating clean is hard enough, now counting the sodium, ouch. I can do it. We've got the discipline, right? Thanks.

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

I read some where that the moon face is a side of HGH talk to HeadDoc about this. Your E2 is way to low stop the arimidex and let your levels come back up you need to be at about 15 to 20 pg/ml. You should not add Nolvadex when taking Arimidex. Are you having morning wood at this low of an E2.

I just started taking growth. Puffy and bloat have been around for years just on the sauce. Growth does make my hands swell big time though. Cant even close my hand into a fist at times. Must be the Humatrope, is it that good?

Morning wood every morning, its great. Yes, at this E2 level. I am gonna stop the arimidex and see what happens for a while. Then I will try the Nolva by itself. And if not solved, then both. One thing at a time to rule out all possibilites.

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by jawbone

how about that HDL?? Did I read that right? 4?

That is right. Doctor said it was the lowest he ever seen.

I have had maybe ten labs this year already. This one was surprising. The lab screwed up and did not put the LDL.

On all my previous labs, my HDL and LDL have been out of range by just a little. Nothing alarming. Also, the triglycerides have been only slightly high on past labs. And on the final note, I did not fast for this test which probably through it all off. Just gonna retest in a couple of weeks.

On another note, I get all of this paid for in full by my insurance, so believe me I have been tested like a lab monkey. Especially, for the humatrope. Stimulation test and all. I had around three very low IGF1 results so, my doc did a pituitary MRI and then the stim test. My LH and FSH were both less than 0.1. Pretty, much completeley shut off.

The lipids should turn around with the growth therapy. Adult growth hormone deficiency symptoms are a bad lipid profile. Also, I think the Arimidex probably reeks havok on it too.

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by JanSz

DIM+I3C+TMG+resveratrol+Calcium Dglutarate to control and modify estrogens

Fish oils to get HDL better

Clomid, Nolva to possibly raise SHBG

Yeah, another thread caught my interest regarding some of these supplements. That thread about making sure estrogen is not reabsorbed into the body. xenoestrogen or something like that. Got to go back and read it again. Might try that Calcium Dglutarate.

I have Nolva on the way. Will see what it does on the SHBG.

[jawbone]

glad fish oil seemed to work for you but they mainly effect triglyceride and LDL. If it were that simple many docs would prescribe fish oil like Omacor to raise HDL levels. Niacin has some effect on HDL and the newer "statins" are sold to us saying they have HDL raising ability. Fish oils wont hurt if taken within reason.

Retest is in order if you did not fast although fasting is mainly for triglyceride subfraction.

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by jawbone

glad fish oil seemed to work for you but they mainly effect triglyceride and LDL. If it were that simple many docs would prescribe fish oil like Omacor to raise HDL levels. Niacin has some effect on HDL and the newer "statins" are sold to us saying they have HDL raising ability. Fish oils wont hurt if taken within reason.

Retest is in order if you did not fast although fasting is mainly for triglyceride subfraction.

I never took any fish oils. Yeah, I figured the triglycerides were off from not fasting. I read up on the winny and it is one of the worst on your lipids. Just have to work on the high estrogen at 100mg test a week, unbelievable.

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by richyrich

I just got back from the doctor and would like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this board. Some history, I first cycled 7 years ago. Went from 6'3", 135lbs, 8%, to 215lbs, 12% now. The last year I was on nothing until 4 months ago when I went on Test and Growth Replacement. I use to cycle upwards of 1 gram total gear. Test Enanthate and Deca mostly.

The problem I have is I always bloat on test. Moon face mainly. I have been playing with as little as 100mg of test cyp injected weekly broken into to 2 shots 4 days apart. I take real brand Arimidex 1mg every other day and I still bloat. It fuckin sucks. Moon face sucks because the good looks go away. Less looks from the lady crowd, you know. So, right now, this is what I take:
50mg test cyp every 4 days
1mg real arimidex every other day
3 units of Humatrope daily
45mg of actos (for insulin resistance instead of insulin for the growth)
45mg of Winstrol (just started, I cycle with this and make good gains while on TRT)

I feel great, but the bloat sucks. I just ordered nolvadex to try to block the receptor sites. Will see what happens.

Diet is pretty clean with occasional junk food (ie. pizza), no soda, lots of water. 2,500 - 4,000 calories a day. Multi-vitamins, probiotics, protein shakes, lots of chicken, egg whites, milk, etc.

Train 4-5 days a week, only weights with minimal rest between sets to get a bit of cardio.

32 years old.

Todays lab results.

Urine - all tests in range
Glucose - 97 65-99
Creatinine - .9 .5-1.5
BUN - 18 5-26
Sodium - 139 135-148
Potassium - 4 3.5-5.5
Chloride - 100 96-109
Carbon Dioxide - 26 20-32
Calcium - 9.3 8.5-10.6

Cholesterol Total - 172 100-199 I did not fast, might be compromised.
Triglycerides - 449 0-149 I did not fast, but this is bad.
HDL - 4 40-59 I did not fast, but this is bad.

DHT - Results pending.

TSH - 2.1 .35-5.5

Testosterone - 647 241-827

IGF1 - 317 115-307

Estradiol - 7 0-53

Cortisol - 11.4 3.1-22.4

Prolactin - 4.7 2.1-17.7

Estrogen - 268 40-115 Right here, always high. Previous result was 448.

SHBG - 5 13-71 Something going on here probably.


So, obviously I convert test easily to estrogen. Even when on Arimidex. I'm gonna try Nolvadex every day at 10mg. What I'm doing right now works for me. I am gaining, but the damn bloat even at low levels of test pisses me off. When I used to to cycle 800 test 400 deca I use to look like a puff fish and really didnt gain and had no appetite. Used to like the strength though. Knowing that was not good on health and was getting me no where, I am happy with what I am currently taking. Low doses do work. I just need to get rid of the puffy face. Suggestions and experience, please.

inuslin resistance and low estrodial. Total estrogens is worth lesss get 24 hour urine to really know

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by richyrich

I just got back from the doctor and would like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this board. Some history, I first cycled 7 years ago. Went from 6'3", 135lbs, 8%, to 215lbs, 12% now. The last year I was on nothing until 4 months ago when I went on Test and Growth Replacement. I use to cycle upwards of 1 gram total gear. Test Enanthate and Deca mostly.

The problem I have is I always bloat on test. Moon face mainly. I have been playing with as little as 100mg of test cyp injected weekly broken into to 2 shots 4 days apart. I take real brand Arimidex 1mg every other day and I still bloat. It fuckin sucks. Moon face sucks because the good looks go away. Less looks from the lady crowd, you know. So, right now, this is what I take:
50mg test cyp every 4 days
1mg real arimidex every other day
3 units of Humatrope daily
45mg of actos (for insulin resistance instead of insulin for the growth)
45mg of Winstrol (just started, I cycle with this and make good gains while on TRT)

I feel great, but the bloat sucks. I just ordered nolvadex to try to block the receptor sites. Will see what happens.

Diet is pretty clean with occasional junk food (ie. pizza), no soda, lots of water. 2,500 - 4,000 calories a day. Multi-vitamins, probiotics, protein shakes, lots of chicken, egg whites, milk, etc.

Train 4-5 days a week, only weights with minimal rest between sets to get a bit of cardio.

32 years old.

Todays lab results.

Urine - all tests in range
Glucose - 97 65-99
Creatinine - .9 .5-1.5
BUN - 18 5-26
Sodium - 139 135-148
Potassium - 4 3.5-5.5
Chloride - 100 96-109
Carbon Dioxide - 26 20-32
Calcium - 9.3 8.5-10.6

Cholesterol Total - 172 100-199 I did not fast, might be compromised.
Triglycerides - 449 0-149 I did not fast, but this is bad.
HDL - 4 40-59 I did not fast, but this is bad.

DHT - Results pending.

TSH - 2.1 .35-5.5

Testosterone - 647 241-827

IGF1 - 317 115-307

Estradiol - 7 0-53

Cortisol - 11.4 3.1-22.4

Prolactin - 4.7 2.1-17.7

Estrogen - 268 40-115 Right here, always high. Previous result was 448.

SHBG - 5 13-71 Something going on here probably.


So, obviously I convert test easily to estrogen. Even when on Arimidex. I'm gonna try Nolvadex every day at 10mg. What I'm doing right now works for me. I am gaining, but the damn bloat even at low levels of test pisses me off. When I used to to cycle 800 test 400 deca I use to look like a puff fish and really didnt gain and had no appetite. Used to like the strength though. Knowing that was not good on health and was getting me no where, I am happy with what I am currently taking. Low doses do work. I just need to get rid of the puffy face. Suggestions and experience, please.

3 IU seems pretty high for a replacement dose of hGH. Also note that your IGF-1 is out of range. Your present dose might be high enough so that you may be experiencing side effects, one of which is bloat. Excessive doses of hGH can also cause insulin resistance. As somebody else noted, your numbers strongly suggest insulin resistance. Conservative dosing with hGH seems safest.

[richyrich]

Originally Posted by cpeil2

3 IU seems pretty high for a replacement dose of hGH. Also note that your IGF-1 is out of range. Your present dose might be high enough so that you may be experiencing side effects, one of which is bloat. Excessive doses of hGH can also cause insulin resistance. As somebody else noted, your numbers strongly suggest insulin resistance. Conservative dosing with hGH seems safest.

For my weight, dosage is from 1.2-3.5 per directions. When I had the stimulation test, there wasnt even a blip on the radar. Nothing put out. Shut off bad. I'm still tweaking the dosage to get it right. Looks like between 2-3 units is the number. Laying off the arimidex for a while. This bloating is from the test. Only side from the growth is puffy tingling hands. My lipids were wrecked because of the Winstrol I just started taking. One of the worst on lipids.

My problem is estrogen. My face puffs, my stomach and love handles also distend. These are rich estrogen receptor sites. Its not fat for fact. When Im on nothing, there is no fat there. Its bloat and water. I just cant believe Im still gettting it at 100mg test a week and arimidex is not keeping it away.

Thanks for everyones help.