lab test timing

[christophchicago]

I am following the SWALE protocol to the letter i.e. 100 mg test cyp IM weekly, 250 IU HCG sub q on 5th and 6th day after test cyp shot, no other hormone manipulating meds until after follow up labs after 5 th IM shot of test. My question is , since I do my IM shot on Sunday mornings, does it matter what day my blood is drawn for lab work ? I have an appointment scheduled for the Friday following the 5th IM shot, I usually take the sub q HCG on Friday morning, would this effect the lab work in a negative way ?What would be the best day , assuming the above conditions, to have blood drawn for lab work ? Another question, my HCG is Novarel, 10000 IU vial, and it says only good for 30 days after reconstitution, and in that time span I would only use 2000 IU, is the rest just wasted ? I would appreciate any advice on this matter.

[novice]

i have the same hcg and was wondering how long it stays good too. My doc told me its good for 60 days, but the package says to use within 30 days.

[coz]

I normally get my labs drawn the day of my shot - before I take my shot. It should not matter too much which day you get it drawn - as you can factor in your timing with the results.

For comparison it would be good to get your tests on the same day each time.

If you are drawing on Friday, you may want to do it before your HCG, then this would indicate the lowest level of T for the week - as you'll be adding HCG after the shot.

Does your HCG come with sterile water ? or Bac Water ? Bac Water should make it last longer - maybe up to 60days.

[christophchicago]

Novarel comes with the Bac water, so if I go past the 30 days it says on package, how can I determine when it has lost potency and/or become unsafe for use ? If my labs are drawn on Friday, after a Sunday test cyp IM, that puts testosterone levels about as low as they will go, but if I draw labs AFTER an HCG shot, wont that elevate my testosterone levels above what they usually are ? In other words, is the HCG gonna cause testicles to produce big spike of natural testosterone above normal levels ?

[gymrat1977]

Novarel is good for 60 days.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by gymrat1977

Novarel is good for 60 days.

Novarel is good for 30 days per the insert. In my experience, using it past 30 days, it loses potency.

[christophchicago]

is there another brand of HCG or perhaps Novarel itself that comes in smaller total quantity, or perhaps doesnt have to be reconstituted all at once ? At approximately 2000 IU a month, I would be throwing away three quarters of a vial a month.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by christophchicago

Novarel comes with the Bac water, so if I go past the 30 days it says on package, how can I determine when it has lost potency and/or become unsafe for use ?

The simplest way to make sure that you are using full potency, uncontaminated agent is to discard the unused portion and get another vial. I suppose you could have it assayed and cultured, but that would cost way more than buying another vial.

[abs2]

yes, hcg should cause your testosterone levels to spike up, i would get the labs done before the hcg shot...

Originally Posted by christophchicago

Novarel comes with the Bac water, so if I go past the 30 days it says on package, how can I determine when it has lost potency and/or become unsafe for use ? If my labs are drawn on Friday, after a Sunday test cyp IM, that puts testosterone levels about as low as they will go, but if I draw labs AFTER an HCG shot, wont that elevate my testosterone levels above what they usually are ? In other words, is the HCG gonna cause testicles to produce big spike of natural testosterone above normal levels ?

[pmgamer18]

What time are you doing your blood test. I do my blood tests 2 weeks before seeing my Dr. so we have something to work with. I feel your best bet would be to change your shot to Monday and do your blood work on that days before shots. As for the HCG it is only good for 30 days 8 months ago is was good for 60 Days but the lab that was making it has changed. Last month we has 31 days and my HCG Novarel was not working after 29 days. So don't try to go longer it goes bad fast after 30 days.

[srch4info]

I am also searching for some answers regarding the timing of blood tests but my TRT protocol is slightly different. I am on my first 27 days and ready to be tested now. I use Androgel in the morning and no HCG as of yet.

When should I get my blood drawn... and my pre-TRT blood work was drawn at 9:45 AM

[ASaxon]

Originally Posted by srch4info

I am also searching for some answers regarding the timing of blood tests but my TRT protocol is slightly different. I am on my first 27 days and ready to be tested now. I use Androgel in the morning and no HCG as of yet.

When should I get my blood drawn... and my pre-TRT blood work was drawn at 9:45 AM

Most recommend that with Androgel you wait at least two hours before you draw blood but I usually would wait 12 hours. So if I apply the Gel at 7 in the morning I'd do that draw in the evening. Since T levels on Gels are relatively constant I think it doesn't matter all that much except that it's probably a good idea to avoid the peak conversion within the first two or three hours after application.

For IM injects most Docs will want to get the draw at the low T point. If someone is taking straight IM injections with no HCG then that would be right before your next shot. If taking HCG on day 5 and 6 then that would be right before the day 5 HCG shot. I guess the idea is to draw at the lowest T level so the docs can see how low you are going as many will adjust around this level as opposed to the highest T level.

[srch4info]

OK... I tracked down a post from Swale stating that while on Androgel TRT to apply the daily dose and get tested at least 2 afters after the application... and of course test on the arm that has no T on it.

Unless this is outdated or inaccurate I will follow these guidelines.

Thanks...

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by srch4info

OK... I tracked down a post from Swale stating that while on Androgel TRT to apply the daily dose and get tested at least 2 afters after the application... and of course test on the arm that has no T on it.

Unless this is outdated or inaccurate I will follow these guidelines.

Thanks...

When I was on the gels my Dr. had me come in frist thing in the morning after a shower and do the blood test first then when I got home I put on the gel. He did this because when I put the gel on first and did the blood test the gel just under the skin spiked my test. And this was 2 hr's or more after putting it on. A few times I would forget and put the gel on first then do the test and every time it spiked my tests. They came back 2 x 's over the top of the range.

[srch4info]

Phil,

I seem to be reading that same type of result on many posts yet Dr J is still saying to apply the gel first. I will post on the other forum and ask him just to see if he is still of the same opinion. I definitely don't want to have skewed results and my Dr will freak so I don't want to spook him or derail my treatment.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by srch4info

Phil,

I seem to be reading that same type of result on many posts yet Dr J is still saying to apply the gel first. I will post on the other forum and ask him just to see if he is still of the same opinion. I definitely don't want to have skewed results and my Dr will freak so I don't want to spook him or derail my treatment.

I don't think it is a big deal Dr. John says to do the gel first and not to get the gel on the area that the blood is drawn from. I know of guys that are doing this and there test is not spiked. Yet Dr. John has been doing this for a long time and is dam good at reading tests. He can tell if a guy is doing shots if his levels are to high doing a blood test one or two days after the shot. But other Dr.'s don't have the knowledge to do this. I feel you need to call your Dr. and ask him. My Dr. talked to the Drug rep for Androgel and the rep told him to do the blood test first.

[Ruper]

Obviously go with what you are most comfortable with.

Personally I would try to have the test first thing in the morning before putting on the gel. Then put on the gel, even if it is a few hours after you normally do it. This may certainly not be SWALES protocol, but I'd want to see what my low-point was, even on gels and be sure I did not mess up the test.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by Ruper

I'd want to see what my low-point was, even on gels and be sure I did not mess up the test.

The low won't mean anything, because you won't have to live with it for long because as soon as you apply gel, the levels will shoot up again. If you really wanted to take a meaningful low on gels, then 12 hours after application on the same day would give you a better idea of how low you go on that day, and whether there is a need to apply once or twice a day. Most doctors prescribe once a day application in the morning and this is sufficient, and mimics the way the body produces T, namely higher in the morning and gets lower as the day goes by. I know it is sufficient for me.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by 1cc

The low won't mean anything, because you won't have to live with it for long because as soon as you apply gel, the levels will shoot up again. If you really wanted to take a meaningful low on gels, then 12 hours after application on the same day would give you a better idea of how low you go on that day, and whether there is a need to apply once or twice a day. Most doctors prescribe once a day application in the morning and this is sufficient, and mimics the way the body produces T, namely higher in the morning and gets lower as the day goes by. I know it is sufficient for me.

This is a good point but the gels for me stayed in my blood stream for 24 hrs. We took tests at 12 and 24 hrs. and they were with in 10% of each other. I did not get a low in 12 to 24 hrs. I guess I was lucky. There is a chart in this link showing what 5 and 10 grams of gel did in 24 hrs.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/attac...3&d=1139879356

[srch4info]

I find it interesting how their and so many differing schools of though regarding this issue....

Phil the post was an interesting read and obviously showed the peak increase after two hours with a very stable steady state over the 24 hour period. If my body reacts the way the chart states I could go for my test 4 hours after my dose and be at nearly the same level as 12 hours and even 24 hours OR I could go for blood work before my dose and it really shouldn't make a significant difference as long as I was within 24 hours.

[srch4info]

Well I finally got the lab work and I actually did the draw at 9:30 AM which was 18 hours after my Androgel application. I actully did not intentionally do the timing this way... my work week was extremely hectic and my application times got all screwed up so I had no choice.

My results are on the following thread:

New lab results with major concerns - please help!