No More Gel, Injections Now

[tks1183]

Hello all! I have been on TRT since about March. Doc had me on Testim 1% at one tube/day, then 2/day. Did not help. I am 23 yrs. and my initial total T was 306 ng/dL. I dropped down to ~160 ng/dL on Testim, so the doc and I decided to go to injections. Got the first one yesterday.

Need your feedback: He has me on 400 mg test cypionate every THREE (3) weeks. Yeah, 3 weeks. He said he needs to do this (rather than every week) to test the dips down ("trough" levels), to make sure they're high enough.

Now the questions: where should my T go? Subjectively, how should i feel? From the lit. I've read, sounds like I need to be in the upper 1/4 of the "normal" scale. I'd like to get up to 1000+ (of course, right? haha).

Also, doc said I don't need any "anti-E." Opinion? I could really use some advice and input. Thanks for your help, all!

[Fit4Life05]

Originally Posted by tks1183

Hello all! I have been on TRT since about March. Doc had me on Testim 1% at one tube/day, then 2/day. Did not help. I am 23 yrs. and my initial total T was 306 ng/dL. I dropped down to ~160 ng/dL on Testim, so the doc and I decided to go to injections. Got the first one yesterday.

Need your feedback: He has me on 400 mg test cypionate every THREE (3) weeks. Yeah, 3 weeks. He said he needs to do this (rather than every week) to test the dips down ("trough" levels), to make sure they're high enough.

Now the questions: where should my T go? Subjectively, how should i feel? From the lit. I've read, sounds like I need to be in the upper 1/4 of the "normal" scale. I'd like to get up to 1000+ (of course, right? haha).

Also, doc said I don't need any "anti-E." Opinion? I could really use some advice and input. Thanks for your help, all!

every three weeks and youll be on a rollercoaster...great the first week, but then horrid the second 2

try for 1 shot every week or 1 shot (split up 2 days a week)

[tks1183]

Yeah, that's what seems to be most recommended in everything I read. However, I think my endocrinologist is outdated. He's out of the loop, or something. I told him I wanted it every week, but he said that we could switch to that after 3-4 times of the every 3 weeks. That would mean in about 6-9 weeks or so.

Originally Posted by Fit4Life05

every three weeks and youll be on a rollercoaster...great the first week, but then horrid the second 2

try for 1 shot every week or 1 shot (split up 2 days a week)

[zkt]

Ask him which T ester youre on aand be prepared to discuss the half life and oter relevant aspects. Maybe you`ll get lucky and he will realize that he still has things to learn and that all patients aren`t idiots. Assuming you`re not, of course.
http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#takemore

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by tks1183

Hello all! I have been on TRT since about March. Doc had me on Testim 1% at one tube/day, then 2/day. Did not help. I am 23 yrs. and my initial total T was 306 ng/dL. I dropped down to ~160 ng/dL on Testim, so the doc and I decided to go to injections. Got the first one yesterday.

Need your feedback: He has me on 400 mg test cypionate every THREE (3) weeks. Yeah, 3 weeks. He said he needs to do this (rather than every week) to test the dips down ("trough" levels), to make sure they're high enough.

Now the questions: where should my T go? Subjectively, how should i feel? From the lit. I've read, sounds like I need to be in the upper 1/4 of the "normal" scale. I'd like to get up to 1000+ (of course, right? haha).

Also, doc said I don't need any "anti-E." Opinion? I could really use some advice and input. Thanks for your help, all!

Important, you have testosterone script.

400 mg test cypionate every THREE (3) weeks
that is
400/3=133mg/week, assume 200mg/ml strenght
133mg=133/200=0.665ml=66.5 units on insuline syringe

you do not want to inject less that 2x/week , 33.25 units each shot
or
E3D, 1
66.5/7*3=28.5 units each shot
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If your testis are producing T, you do not want to shut them down, you need HCG
If you tell me your SHBG level
I can tell you how high your blood levels will go on the E3D dose, approximately, but 133mg/week sound pretty good.

Need blood testing (long list) to figure out what may be wrong with you.

Estrogens wise
You can but LiquiDex from sponsor of this board
http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product...=16135&cat=248
do not use it until you test your blood, six weeks after you start E3D or wtice weekly injections.
Draw blood on the day of the shot, before shot.

Other estrogens need to be addressed too
LEF DualAction 6pills
LEF TMG 2pills

[tks1183]

Haha! Probably wouldn't consider myself an idiot. I seem to be more read on the subject than he is. I'm on testosterone cypionate—or were you asking something different?

Originally Posted by zkt

Ask him which T ester youre on aand be prepared to discuss the half life and oter relevant aspects. Maybe you`ll get lucky and he will realize that he still has things to learn and that all patients aren`t idiots. Assuming you`re not, of course.
http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html#takemore

[tks1183]

The following is old info on some of my blood tests.

First and second test with endocrinologist
Date of second test: 11 April 2007

Testim 1% 50 mg (1 tube) for 2 weeks. Here's the before and after. Before is on the left, after on the right. I specificed if it was done only before or only after use with Testim. Bummer that the e2 was done only after because I would have liked to see where it was before.

Estradiol/e2 (ultra-sensitive; no before, only AFTER): 24 pg/mL

DHT (only after): 150 ng/dL

Testosterone
- Total: 306 >>> 421 ng/dL
- Free: 56.2 >>> 71.7pg/mL
- Bioavailable: 118 >>> 156.8 ng/dL

SHBG: 20 >>> 23 nmol/L
*** Below this, it said "Sample slightly icteric." Unsure of what that means.

Abumin, serum: 4.6 >>> 4.8 g/dL

IGF-1 (before only): 263 ng/mL

PSA: 0.1 >>> 0.1 mg/mL

TSH (before only): 3.87 ng/dL

Prolaction (before only): 6.6 ng/mL

LH: 3.7 >>> 1.7 mIU/mL

FSH (after only): 2.4 mIU/mL

Now, here's some more recent info from the latest blood tests:

6 weeks of 2 tubes:
- Total T: 170
- Bioavail T: 55.1

7 weeks of 2 tubes:
- Total T: 275
- Bioavail T: 77

This is why we switched to injections. I posted in another post asking people if they knew of any good endocrinologists in my area (San Francisco Bay Area) because I'd like to be treated for my hypogonadism under insurance, if possible.

Originally Posted by JanSz

Important, you have testosterone script.

400 mg test cypionate every THREE (3) weeks
that is
400/3=133mg/week, assume 200mg/ml strenght
133mg=133/200=0.665ml=66.5 units on insuline syringe

you do not want to inject less that 2x/week , 33.25 units each shot
or
E3D, 1
66.5/7*3=28.5 units each shot
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If your testis are producing T, you do not want to shut them down, you need HCG
If you tell me your SHBG level
I can tell you how high your blood levels will go on the E3D dose, approximately, but 133mg/week sound pretty good.

Need blood testing (long list) to figure out what may be wrong with you.

Estrogens wise
You can but LiquiDex from sponsor of this board
http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product...=16135&cat=248
do not use it until you test your blood, six weeks after you start E3D or wtice weekly injections.
Draw blood on the day of the shot, before shot.

Other estrogens need to be addressed too
LEF DualAction 6pills
LEF TMG 2pills

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by tks1183

The following is old info on some of my blood tests.

First and second test with endocrinologist
Date of second test: 11 April 2007

Testim 1% 50 mg (1 tube) for 2 weeks. Here's the before and after. Before is on the left, after on the right. I specificed if it was done only before or only after use with Testim. Bummer that the e2 was done only after because I would have liked to see where it was before.

Estradiol/e2 (ultra-sensitive; no before, only AFTER): 24 pg/mL

DHT (only after): 150 ng/dL

Testosterone
- Total: 306 >>> 421 ng/dL
- Free: 56.2 >>> 71.7pg/mL
- Bioavailable: 118 >>> 156.8 ng/dL

SHBG: 20 >>> 23 nmol/L
*** Below this, it said "Sample slightly icteric." Unsure of what that means.

Abumin, serum: 4.6 >>> 4.8 g/dL

IGF-1 (before only): 263 ng/mL

PSA: 0.1 >>> 0.1 mg/mL

TSH (before only): 3.87 ng/dL

Prolaction (before only): 6.6 ng/mL

LH: 3.7 >>> 1.7 mIU/mL

FSH (after only): 2.4 mIU/mL

Now, here's some more recent info from the latest blood tests:

6 weeks of 2 tubes:
- Total T: 170
- Bioavail T: 55.1

7 weeks of 2 tubes:
- Total T: 275
- Bioavail T: 77

This is why we switched to injections. I posted in another post asking people if they knew of any good endocrinologists in my area (San Francisco Bay Area) because I'd like to be treated for my hypogonadism under insurance, if possible.

Looks like Testim is not working for you. All you have got is high DHT.
I was on 10grams Androgel with better results, but even higher DHT.
I am now on T shots.
Since yours SHBG=23 is about same as mine (24) I will give you mine routine.
Recheck blood in 2 months to readjust dose, aim for the top of FreeT and BioAvailableT as per QuestDiagnostics.
Depo-Testosterone 200mg/mL
130.7/week, each shot 28 units on insuline syringe,
$140 at Walgreens, $100 generic at Walgreens, $40 at compounding pharmacy,
womensinternational.com
Novarel HCG, diluted in 10mL water
500Iu, 50 units on insuline syringe
E3D, every third day both shots on same day, (T & hcg) subq around navel (both shots)
two days free of shots

For T injections I use
http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

Thre is less expensive syringe of same size
http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99

This 3/10cc needle is not big enough for the amount of hcg I use
I have old stash of 1cc, 30ga, so I use that.

If I am still happy with my routine I may buy separate needle for hcg
I may change to E2D routine, recalculate my T dose (19 units)
and change hcg to 250iu.

I may change the amount of water in HCG so it would fit the small 3/10cc syringe.
There are few options available.