Not sure on HCG dosing...

[Matty]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I know this question gets asked all of the time. And I have read through many HCG dosage questions. I understand that going above 400IU could lead to desensitization. But I don't understand if that is daily or weekly? I have read so many conflicting things it seems...

I have taken 100IU for the past few days and have gotten a decent jolt from it. To give you an idea, I'm taking this because I have had estrogen dominance and relatively high SHGB in the past. THat together with a nice total T for natural, but a low bioavailable. After months of getting E down and trying to lower SHGB with Arimidex, I feel like I'm at a standstill...

So I took on HCG to give it a try and sure enough it gave me a good boost so I don't think E is a problem right now. I am taking it with Arimidex as well. But I don't want to take too much HCG is the thing... nor do I want to get close. I just want to kickstart things a bit... I'm 27 years old and looking for it to help me in the bedroom, and perhaps support fertility as well as I'm hearing it may.

What would be a good starter dose at how many times a week? How should I increase and to what (max.) would be a mild dosageof HCG?

[Matty]

*BUMP*

Well I found out that HCG probably isn't right for me. It worked well for the first day or two and then I had bad ED so clearly it was aromatizing. It's clear that I have bad Andropause at age 27... it's messed up because I'm not overweight, just a lot of fat on my upper body instead of any muscle at all.

It is so bloody difficult to reverse high SHBG, high E2, and low bioavailable T (but high total T). Everything seems to either bound or get aromatized.

I've waited out on trying it because of all the harsh thoughts on it, but I'm going on a strict regime -

Letrozole (.5MG daily), Indo w/ DIM, little to no fat diet, exercise in the new year (w/ weight training for once in my life). This is killing me... I feel like shit all of the time, no drive and just the thought of Andropause at 27! ARG

Might go see these guys or at least get the report on Letro lowering E and SHBG too:

Testosterone & Time

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Matty

Hi all,

I'm sorry I know this question gets asked all of the time. And I have read through many HCG dosage questions. I understand that going above 400IU could lead to desensitization. But I don't understand if that is daily or weekly? I have read so many conflicting things it seems...

I have taken 100IU for the past few days and have gotten a decent jolt from it. To give you an idea, I'm taking this because I have had estrogen dominance and relatively high SHGB in the past. THat together with a nice total T for natural, but a low bioavailable. After months of getting E down and trying to lower SHGB with Arimidex, I feel like I'm at a standstill...

So I took on HCG to give it a try and sure enough it gave me a good boost so I don't think E is a problem right now. I am taking it with Arimidex as well. But I don't want to take too much HCG is the thing... nor do I want to get close. I just want to kickstart things a bit... I'm 27 years old and looking for it to help me in the bedroom, and perhaps support fertility as well as I'm hearing it may.

What would be a good starter dose at how many times a week? How should I increase and to what (max.) would be a mild dosageof HCG?

Do each project separately.

Arimidex is for controling E2.
SHBG, you mostly just have little infuence on it, so just monitor it
HCG. mostly to keep you balls in shape

Unless you have very low DHT,
take your SHBG
look into my table on post #40
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2
figure out your initial weekly testosterone dose.

use that on E2D schedule, that is alternate days T & hcg, use 31ga needle for both
day#1 - T shot plus any Liquidex
day#2 - 380iu HCG

do thise three blood tests at Quest, to control important analytes:

FreeT3
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

your goal

FreeT3=top range, use Armour Thyroid to adjust
FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6) use Liquidex to adjust
BioavailableT~575 use DepoT to adjust

Good luck
There is many other health concerns.
If you are persistent and patient
this three are the easy part

Accuracy is of paramount importance to be succesful.

[pmgamer18]

You are like my self and Hardasnails we think about doing T or HCG and E2 goes up so here is what we do. We take Arimidex enough to keep E2 below 20. You need to use your wood as a gauge. Do HCG 100 IU's everyday and when you feel like your E2 is to high then start on Arimidex do .25mgs every 3 days in less then 2 weeks you should get your morning and night time wood back this means your have hit the 'zone keep doing this but if wood stops your going to low on your E2 so stop the arimidex until the wood comes back. That day go back on it but do less every 5 days. Keep doing this until you get this right so between doing the using your wood as a gauge and blood test you should be good to go.

[Bill-NJ]

Originally Posted by Matty

*BUMP*

Well I found out that HCG probably isn't right for me. It worked well for the first day or two and then I had bad ED so clearly it was aromatizing. It's clear that I have bad Andropause at age 27... it's messed up because I'm not overweight, just a lot of fat on my upper body instead of any muscle at all.

It is so bloody difficult to reverse high SHBG, high E2, and low bioavailable T (but high total T). Everything seems to either bound or get aromatized.

I've waited out on trying it because of all the harsh thoughts on it, but I'm going on a strict regime -

Letrozole (.5MG daily), Indo w/ DIM, little to no fat diet, exercise in the new year (w/ weight training for once in my life). This is killing me... I feel like shit all of the time, no drive and just the thought of Andropause at 27! ARG

Might go see these guys or at least get the report on Letro lowering E and SHBG too:

Testosterone & Time

What did you base your need for HCG on? was your T low? HCG is not a cure for ED and not a "Help in the bedroom" drug. You can do more harm than good if you do not have a need for TRT

[Matty]

Thanks all, much appreciated. I did see the benefits from HCG in terms of my balls. They have never felt so good.

Jan I really don't think I need TRT because my Total T is actually high for natural:

Testosterone - 26 (HI) - Range 7.3-23.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone - 54.1 - Range 31.0-94.0 PMOL/L
Bioavailable Testosterone Test 1 - 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol
Bioavailable Testosterone Test 2 (a few months later, earlier in the morning) - 7.9 - Range 3.0-16.0 nmol/L
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L
Have 2 E2 readings from saliva showing very high, 1 from blood showing me having cut it down while on DIM for a while. I have a good "feel" for what it's at. Being in Canada, I can't do Quest unfortunately.

Phil - funny you should provide that feedback because I have been looking at your example. I have to be careful because I think I may have an even worse case of aromatization. I think I'm going to look at doing a few shots a week low dose HCG to keep my balls in shape and that's it. I have to find a way to free up my total T in the meantime.

Bill-NJ - understood. But my balls have been like grapes and I needed to try HCG to see what sort of reaction I got from it. My doctor has tried to put me on TRT and I flat out refused because I know it's not the answer here. I have tried for months to try and get my andropause reversed and perhaps I need to be even more diligent. The idea with the HCG was to see if I could better my balls, and to see what kind of boost I got from it. Evidently the T was pooling higher and more aromatization. I mean I'm only 27 here... I'm desparate to get this reversed...

I know you can do damage, but my testis are laying dormant it feels.

To give you an idea of how bad this is, I was taking 3 pills of DIM a day (for months) which was helping me considerably (was actually getting good erections). I had a fun summer, with more free eating and drinking, and my sex life went down the gutter again. I thought it could have been because I drove my E too low. But after stopping DIM, my erections never came back. I was simply high on E again.

Since the HCG experiment, I have reverted to very low fat diet. Back to 3X DIM a day and working with low dosage of letro, keeping a journal. I have a gym membership starting early January which will consists of weight training. I'm pretty sure I'm missing muscle right now. I think I will hit 50-100IU of HCG twice a week to keep my balls in shape in the meantime, and hope that the DIM will clear out any aromatized T.

What a shame to see that Total T going to waste right now... almost makes me cry!

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Matty

Thanks all, much appreciated. I did see the benefits from HCG in terms of my balls. They have never felt so good.

Jan I really don't think I need TRT because my Total T is actually high for natural:

Testosterone - 26 (HI) - Range 7.3-23.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone - 54.1 - Range 31.0-94.0 PMOL/L
Bioavailable Testosterone Test 1 - 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol
Bioavailable Testosterone Test 2 (a few months later, earlier in the morning) - 7.9 - Range 3.0-16.0 nmol/L
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L
Have 2 E2 readings from saliva showing very high, 1 from blood showing me having cut it down while on DIM for a while. I have a good "feel" for what it's at. Being in Canada, I can't do Quest unfortunately.

Phil - funny you should provide that feedback because I have been looking at your example. I have to be careful because I think I may have an even worse case of aromatization. I think I'm going to look at doing a few shots a week low dose HCG to keep my balls in shape and that's it. I have to find a way to free up my total T in the meantime.

Bill-NJ - understood. But my balls have been like grapes and I needed to try HCG to see what sort of reaction I got from it. My doctor has tried to put me on TRT and I flat out refused because I know it's not the answer here. I have tried for months to try and get my andropause reversed and perhaps I need to be even more diligent. The idea with the HCG was to see if I could better my balls, and to see what kind of boost I got from it. Evidently the T was pooling higher and more aromatization. I mean I'm only 27 here... I'm desparate to get this reversed...

I know you can do damage, but my testis are laying dormant it feels.

To give you an idea of how bad this is, I was taking 3 pills of DIM a day (for months) which was helping me considerably (was actually getting good erections). I had a fun summer, with more free eating and drinking, and my sex life went down the gutter again. I thought it could have been because I drove my E too low. But after stopping DIM, my erections never came back. I was simply high on E again.

Since the HCG experiment, I have reverted to very low fat diet. Back to 3X DIM a day and working with low dosage of letro, keeping a journal. I have a gym membership starting early January which will consists of weight training. I'm pretty sure I'm missing muscle right now. I think I will hit 50-100IU of HCG twice a week to keep my balls in shape in the meantime, and hope that the DIM will clear out any aromatized T.

What a shame to see that Total T going to waste right now... almost makes me cry!

Matty;
You have a correct mid set.
Lets work with that.
I have following plan for you:
Stay on 380iu HCG every other day
Try to lower your SHBG
use LEF
Super Mira Forte
Prostate formula
after you get rid of 2/3 of your SHBG you will be all set.

Get blood test, pick anything you like from my list, whole list is best.

Better yet, wait with that blood test and do testing at Genova Diagnostics.

EstroEssence
NutriEval

Eat what the tests tell you to eat.

At Quest do only
FreeT3
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

adjust FreeT3 with Armour, if need
adjust FreeE2 (0.45 - 0.6) with Liquidex, if need
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got some results from Genova,
I would say rather surprising,
soon I will post my tests here:
JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy
================================================== ===

Chief Medical Officer, Genova Diagnostics
Patrick Hanaway MD

A4M :: Conference Library

GDX NutrEval Profile

[Matty]

Thanks Jan, I will try that product to lower the SHBG. Have a few options for HCG so I will consider and try those too.

One additional question I have surrounds progesterone. I have results showing low in this, with comes with the E dominance territory as I understand it. I have read that taking progsterone helps reverse this. Is this true? has anyone tried it?