Is it possible to use steroids and avoid long term effects on the HPTA?

[Ronin_]

Alot of people are very flippant and rubbish the risks of permament effect on the HPTA from steroid use.. so id like to ask Swale if you dont mind what kind of percentage of AAS users have hormonal problems long term from steroid use, and does age you first started using AAS etc affect this? Thanks alot

[mxim]

i am not swale,but speaking from experience,to get a take on whether or not one is permanantly supressed requires you to stay off of EVERYTHING for at least 18 months. there have been some cases where long term use of AAS result in permanantly lowering natural testosterone.this was said to be a result of the body resetting itself to a low normal setback point. example,one might have a normal T level of 550 but after a few years of heavy use it is now at 300.this is why i recommend hcg at SMALL dosages intermittenly.it is also speculated that keeping the testes atrophied for extended periods of time can cause scar tissue and damage ledigs cells. bottom line,do not use heavy dosages of AAS and try and stay away from deca,trenbolone.
mxim

[Ronin_]

Yeah i have used both high doses - 2 grams or so in total gear, and long periods of 4 months or so.. it has been 12 months since my last cycle which was very light and i will get my test levels checked soon. I fear they are going to be lower than 300 though....

[Grizzly]

Ronin has me wondering now, too. Swale?

[Phreezer]

I don't think there is enough data to even make a guess... What percentage of BB's are permanently suppressed from AAS usage??? The answer to that would just be an arbitrary number because no one has really set up a good control group of BB's who used AAS and monitored them for years.... And even then the results would be debatable... AAS users don't exactly line up to discuss their steroid usage..and for those who have used and stoped how many of those people just live with low test levels and never bother to have blood work done?

I just don't think this question can be answered ... there simply isn't any data...

[kis55]

Originally Posted by Phreezer

I don't think there is enough data to even make a guess... What percentage of BB's are permanently suppressed from AAS usage??? The answer to that would just be an arbitrary number because no one has really set up a good control group of BB's who used AAS and monitored them for years.... And even then the results would be debatable... AAS users don't exactly line up to discuss their steroid usage..and for those who have used and stoped how many of those people just live with low test levels and never bother to have blood work done?

I just don't think this question can be answered ... there simply isn't any data...

And to add on to what Phreezer has stated; It's entirely possible that some AAS users may have natural low test levels to begin with, before using AAS. I believe SWALE has mentioned that he thinks some people gravitate towards AAS as a way to deal with low test levels, w/o actually knowing it.

[BigRagu]

Originally Posted by kis55

And to add on to what Phreezer has stated; It's entirely possible that some AAS users may have natural low test levels to begin with, before using AAS. I believe SWALE has mentioned that he thinks some people gravitate towards AAS as a way to deal with low test levels, w/o actually knowing it.

this could be true........ b4 i found out i had low test i always thought about going on a cycle .... i was too broke to do it though or i would have... I HATE SCHOOL.........

[Millard Baker]

Originally Posted by Phreezer

I don't think there is enough data to even make a guess... What percentage of BB's are permanently suppressed from AAS usage??? The answer to that would just be an arbitrary number because no one has really set up a good control group of BB's who used AAS and monitored them for years.... And even then the results would be debatable... AAS users don't exactly line up to discuss their steroid usage..and for those who have used and stoped how many of those people just live with low test levels and never bother to have blood work done?

I just don't think this question can be answered ... there simply isn't any data...

Do you know a single AAS-user who has had his hormone levels tested prior to ever using AAS? I don't. I wish I did. It'd be nice to have a baseline.

Also, as has been pointed out, just because a person has low to low normal T levels after discontinuation of AAS, this does not necessarily mean his AAS caused this. It's confounded by the possibility that AAS gravitated towards AAS as a form of self-medication.

However, given current rates and trends of AAS, I wouldn't be surprised a good percentage have long-term disruption of HPTA, from several months/years to permanent.

[SWALE]

Right, guys.

And I certainly could say that 100% of the guys who come to me to try to straighten themselves out do.

[muscleslab]

Ronin, I have only been on three cycles. I did those three eight week cycles in the time span of approximately three years (right after my 21st bday-23yo) leaving 12 weeks between the first two cycles and over 6 months between the 2 and 3rd. The last cycle included Tren.

Following the third cycle clomid therapy did virtually nothing and my total test dropped to 225 and Free Test. was 10 out of 50. I went to a doctor and the doctor told me that I had a low normal range despite my describing to him all the ways I felt like shit and my AAS use. I then went to an endocrinologist, and they said that they couldn't help me and that I only had low levels.

My levels are up now to 465 and 27 out of 50 (been 1yr and a half since the first test), but I don't feel the same as before I went on. Even when conditions are perfect for sex, my dick isn't as hard as it used to be, and I can't last as long as I used to. Furthermore, recouperation time is MUCH longer than it used to be.

To answer your question, from my small amount of experience I do think it is possible to be permanently damaged from even a little use of AAS (depends on genetics as to the gravity of damage I guess). I think this may have happened to me. Further, I think the Tren really did me in. I have never felt so miserable as when I came off of Tren. Finally, I don't think it helps that right after I came of I tried to get help and all the doctors I went to told me 225 was normal. Despite being a pile of estrogen I still wanted throw that doctor into his hand washing sink.

I don't want to try and treat myself when I am so close to normal ranges, but the fact is that I don't feel good. I don't know what to do, because I know most doctors (and all the doctors I can afford) are going to tell me they can't do a thing. I really hope you can avoid the same thing.

musclslab