primer on sub q testosterone and hcg

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by HeadDoc

would you please do a starter thread on the above. This would be for those guys that want to do twice weekly shots of the test. Please include doses etc. and how to figure the doses as it comes out of the 200 mg/ml bottle. Thanks. I am no good on doing the mathematics of dosing and must get my doc to do it for me. I am looking for a thread that I can sticky. Pat

Using Testosterone 200mg/mL
Using twice/week schedule, T shot every (3.5 days)
# of units on insuline syringe ------> equals weekly dose
20 -----> 80
21 -----> 84
22 -----> 88
23 -----> 92
24 -----> 96
25 -----> 100
26 -----> 104
27 -----> 108
28 -----> 112
29 -----> 116
30 -----> 120
31 -----> 124
32 -----> 128
33 -----> 132
34 -----> 136
35 -----> 140
36 -----> 144
37 -----> 148
38 -----> 152
39 -----> 156
40 -----> 160
41 -----> 164
42 -----> 168
43 -----> 172
44 -----> 176
45 -----> 180
46 -----> 184
47 -----> 188
48 -----> 192
49 -----> 196
50 -----> 200
51 -----> 204
52 -----> 208
53 -----> 212
54 -----> 216
55 -----> 220
56 -----> 224
57 -----> 228
58 -----> 232
59 -----> 236
60 -----> 240
61 -----> 244
62 -----> 248
63 -----> 252
64 -----> 256
65 -----> 260

Around the world HCG comes in all kind strenghts.
1000, 1500, 2000, 5000, 10000IU
In USA we most often see the 10000iu
When mixing liquid with powder we have to remember volume of liquid added.
10000iu is most often mixed with 10mL or 5mL of liquid.
Insuline syringes are most often used to deliver hcg shots.
They are marked in "units".
Each 100 units = 1mL
5mL=500 units
If 10000iu is mixed with 5mL of liquid and the desired shot is 250iu
500units=10000iu
Xunits=250iu

X=(250*500)/10000=12.5units

5units=100iu
12.5units=250iu
25units=500iu
-------------------
If 10000iu is mixed with 10mL of liquid and the desired shot is 250iu

1000units=10000iu
Xunits=250iu

X=(250*1000)/10000=25units

10units=100iu
25units=250iu
50units=500iu
-------------------

[jinxie1]

Thanks for being such a good samaritan, Jan.

Incidentally, I am now using a 25 gauge, 1.5", into the ventrogluteal, for T cyp. Painless. I dont have the patience to draw with an insulin syringe. I use a 20 gauge, and then change tips. It's still cheap -- $25 for 100 shots.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by jinxie1

Thanks for being such a good samaritan, Jan.

Incidentally, I am now using a 25 gauge, 1.5", into the ventrogluteal, for T cyp. Painless. I dont have the patience to draw with an insulin syringe. I use a 20 gauge, and then change tips. It's still cheap -- $25 for 100 shots.

Personally I think that there is no difference when shooting subq or IM.
OTOH there may be some personal differences.
I for example cannot tolerate my 31Ga 5/16" needle in my thighs, hurts three days latter.
I tried everywhere else, fat around navel, glutes, delts, no problem.

Somebody else was complaining about shooting around navel.

I would not think twice about how shots are delivered, fat or muscle should not make any difference.
Just stay away from veins.
.
.

[JanSz]

When to get blood tested?
48 hours after the T injections.

Checking TT blood levels latter dilutes information.
Checking too soon, one risk on getting in on ramp up time, risking also larger error.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table#1
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism


Men injected with GnRH Agonist
to stop testis production
Were given dose once weekly
Testosterone Enanthate
25 mg
50 mg
125 mg
300 mg
600 mg

Measured after 7 days

Serum testosterone levels, nmol/l
593(±161)
566(±220)
553(±182)
654(±157)
632(±228)

Conclussion, after seven days there is no way to distinguish initial T dose.

[HeadDoc]

thanks for delivering JanZ. We can use this for others considering twice a week TRT.

[JimRat]

So is subQ T used more frequently now? I'd like to go that route if I can.

Pardon my thickheadedness. I'm new here.

[JanSz]

Post #56
My Cenegenics Experience - Page 2

Looks to me like a good way to figure out if one is a secondary and therefore able to produce own testosterone.
Thank you colkurtz_spf

Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf

I started from a very different place. I had been on the cream alone for a year then stopped and crashed. My doc started me on 5000 IUS twice per week for the first two months. By no means is that my recommendation to you.

I think you could start with 1000 IUs every other day. That would be around 3500 per week. Draw blood in 6 weeks and see what you get. If your levels are perfect than remain at that dose for another six weeks and test again. If E2 is too high increase your Arimidex. You may see that your levels continue to increase every six weeks on the same dose - I did. At that point you can start to trim your dose until you are at a comfortable level.

[JanSz]

Working FreeT ranges. Pot #62

My Cenegenics Experience - Page 3

Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf

That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual.
FT at 160 should be enough for anyone.
I feel good at 233,
but felt better in the 300 range.
I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425.
It only raised my estrogen level.

[JanSz]

For some time now I am fond of Genova Diagnostics tests.
Specialy
NutrEval
and its subset
ONE

These are sets of nutritional testing.

I just learned that the idea of ONE (Optimal Nutritio Evaluation)
was first used/developed at Canyon Ranch Tucson Arizona for last about six years in application to athletes.

Heading up Peak Performance Program
to maximize athletic performance, health and well being is
Richard Gerdhauser, MD, MPH
.
.
I think if this is good for olympic athlets, it should be good for me.
.
.
Genova Diagnostics

.
.

[JanSz]

Questions abt your regime and I3C...

Originally Posted by TylerR

Hi JanSz,

I'm trying to find the post on how much I3C you take but can't seem to find it, if you could direct me to that post that would be great. I don't remember if it was on this forum where you posted it or another forum.

Is this the I3C you're taking as well..

Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

Thanks!

I was taking

2pills/day
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

and
2 pills/day
Breast Health Formula
Breast Health Formula, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

After I read article
TESTOSTERONE NATION
I realized that I may not have the required gastric juices to make use of all the ingredients that those formulae contains, except for DIM.

Well, I switched to DIM only (the least expensive that I know of):
DIM Dindoly Methane
Beyond A Century Performance Nutritional Products
started 2/22/08 night

use 2 scoops/day

I also use 6 tabs with each meal of
Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets
Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets - Vitacost

since I am tolerating this much Betaine HCL, it means that I have minimal amounts of my own gastric juices.

I also use 1/day
Primal Defense Ultra (as my probiotics
and
4/day
Super Enzymes Caps 180 Capsules - NOW FOODS - Code 2964
Super Enzymes Caps 180 Capsules - NOW FOODS - Code 2964
They also contain Betaine HCL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[TylerR]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Questions abt your regime and I3C...




I was taking

2pills/day
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

and
2 pills/day
Breast Health Formula
Breast Health Formula, 60 Vegetarian Capsules

After I read article
TESTOSTERONE NATION
I realized that I may not have the required gastric juices to make use of all the ingredients that those formulae contains, except for DIM.

Well, I switched to DIM only (the least expensive that I know of):
DIM Dindoly Methane
Beyond A Century Performance Nutritional Products
started 2/22/08 night

use 2 scoops/day

I also use 6 tabs with each meal of
Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets
Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets - Vitacost

since I am tolerating this much Betaine HCL, it means that I have minimal amounts of my own gastric juices.

I also use 1/day
Primal Defense Ultra (as my probiotics
and
4/day
Super Enzymes Caps 180 Capsules - NOW FOODS - Code 2964
Super Enzymes Caps 180 Capsules - NOW FOODS - Code 2964
They also contain Betaine HCL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi JanSz,

Is the Breast Health formula working better for you in controlling estrogens then the I3C from LEF.

Why did you add to it?

Thanks!

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by TylerR

Hi JanSz,

Is the Breast Health formula working better for you in controlling estrogens then the I3C from LEF.

Why did you add to it?

Thanks!

Note the past tense,
I am not using ether of LEF formule now.

I thought that I also explained why (my low gastric juices).

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by GirlyMan

DHT and Testosterone

Chronic Insomnia and lack of energy all day?

Quote:

5. Injection of a testosterone ester - e.g. depo-testosterone, testosterone enanthate, testosterone cypionate,
when done twice a week, help reduce DHT production.
When injections are done once every two weeks, DHT production can also be high, due to the higher peak levels of testosterone obtained.

MuscleChatRoom.com

.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by masterpp

guys i feel good on HC (low dose, 5mg x2 ed) and ill work my way up to 20mg per day.

my question is, are there any alternatives to HC which can be used long term and in a similar way, but which dont need to be taken every 4 hours, which i fine a bit of a pain.


cheers

alternatives to HC

Hypopituitary Support
Equivalent maximum doses (do not take pregnenolone or any other adrenal supplement* that breaks down into cortisol with these)

cortisone acetate 37 1/2 (weak, not recommended)
hydrocortisone 30 mg
cortef 30 mg
prednisone 7 1/2 mg
prednisolone 7 1/2 mg
triamcinolone 6 mg
methylprednisolone 6 mg
**dexamethasone 1 mg
betamethasone 0.8 mg

*Isocort max dose 8 pellets-is said to have 2 1/2 mg of cortisol per pellet, so 8 pellets is 20 mg of cortisol.

**info sources can range from 1 mg dex = 6 mg medrol = 30 mg Cortef* to 1 mg dex =16 mg medrol=80 mg Cortef.* In my experiance with dex (your experiance may differ), I've found the equivalents to be closer to 1 mg dexamethasone=
40 mg Prednisone
32 mg Medrol
\160 mg Cortef/HC.

***1 mg medrol =1/32 mg dexamethasone
* The relative mineralcorticoid potencies of different steroids

*************************** Human Aldosterone 300
***************** Fludrocortisone Acetate (Florinef) 150
********************* Deoxycorticosterone acetate 20*
************************* Cortisol/hydrocortisone 2
************************************ Cortisone 2
*********************************** Prednisone 1
********************************* Prednisolone 1
*************************** Methylprednisolone 0.5
******************************** Triamcinolone 0
****************************** Dexamethasone 0
****************************** Betamethasone 0

**************** These figures are rough estimations

*** Glucocorticoid* Potencies of Different Steroids

********* deoxycorticosterone acetate************ 0
********* Human Aldosterone *********************** 0.3
********* cortisone acetate**************************** 0.8
********* hydrocortisone******************************* 1.0
********* prednisone************************************* 4.0
********* prednisolone********************************** 4.0
********* triamcinolone******************************** 5.0*********
********* methylprednisolone*********************** 6.0
******* *Fludrocortisone acetate (florinef) **** 12
********* betamethasone*************************** 24 - 30
********* dexamethasone***************************** 32

*potency is locked up for most people, few actually experiance a significant amount.* A rare few need**** to lower their cortisol therapy by up to 1/3.

********* These figures are rough estimations


Glucocorticoid half lives

cortisone acetate 30 minutes (weak, not recommended)
cortisone (oral) 0.8 - 8 hours
hydrocortisone 1 -8 hours
cortisone (IM) 1.3 -18 hours
prednisone 16 -36 hours
prednisolone 18 - 36 hours
triamcinolone 18- 36 hours
methylprednisolone 18- 36 hours
dexamethasone 36 - 54 hours
betamethasone 36- 54 hours

[JanSz]

Audio

http://divcom-house.informz.net/z/cj...MTE/index.html


Audio: Diana Schwarzbein, MD - Menopause — A Symphony of Hormone Interactions - Women's Health, Women's Health - Integrative Practitioner

Audio: Menopause - A Symphony of Hormone Interactions
Diana Schwarzbein, MD explores the connections to insulin, cortisol and thyroid hormones as well as the connections between the sex hormones themselves.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My notes:

fast acting membrane receptors, seconds to minutes
nuclear receptors, slow acting, hours
all steroid hormones have membrane and nuclear receptors

Binding and unbinding is desirable.
Daily high doses of any hormone may not be apropriate.

High triglycerides may hog communication and need to be adjusted before thyroid (T3) hormone work properly.

Not always hormone issue, may be receptor issue (bad fats).

When at higher levels, most hormones downregulate their own receptors.

Progesterone and estrodial are closely related.
Need enough estrodial for progesterone to work.
Progesterone improves estrodial signals.

Testosterone & progesterone compete for 5ar, high progesterone may lower DHT.

She thinks of study to rub progesterone cream on men's scalp to see if it helps in hair loss.

Cortisol (+), progesterone(-) on aromatase production,
more cortisol promotes production of aromatase and E2
more progesterone hinders production of aromatase (less E2)

Cortisol traping, progesterone increases active cortisol.

Skipping meals raises cortisol.
frequent meals lower cortisol

Stress raises cortisol then raises estrogen (not when AF)

Progesterone decreases insuline
Estrogen increases insuline (insuline sensitizing)

Pogesterone supplementation must not be continouos, must be cycled

Normal response to low E2 should be that cortisol is high

T3 --> increases progesterone

E2 (low) helps T3
E2 (high) antagonist to T3

PXR

B6

[JanSz]

alternatives to HC

alternatives to HC

Originally Posted by JanSz

Try Phil or look thru
stopthethyroidmadness.com

yes, this are the two names that I hear, but the whole project is very touchy.

Cortef you eat now and if few hours it is gone.
The other two may over lap your sleeping time, you really have to know what you are doing.

Stop The Thyroid Madness » Safe Uses of Cortisol

Stop The Thyroid Madness » How to treat adrenals–for the patient and their doctors

Stop The Thyroid Madness » ADRENALS FAQ–the most frequently asked questions
========================

Try this search, read what they say, let me know:

search: medrol site:Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page

search: medrol site:www.stopthethyroidmadness.com - Yahoo! Search Results
--------\

search: prednisone site:Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page

search: prednisone site:www.stopthethyroidmadness.com - Yahoo! Search Results
=============
Why HC instead of Prednisone?
Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - Why HC instead of Prednisone?

Quote:
The reason that most people with adrenal fatigue or Addison's are on HC rather than pred is that it is bioidentical, has some mineralcorticoid activity, and can be easily adjusted as needed.

Prednisone is long-acting, not bioidentical, and has no mineralcoritcoid activity. It isn't "addicting" as most drugs are addicting, but most doc's prescribe it for inflammation of some kind at very high doses. This will completely and sometimes permanently suppress adrenal function, along with giving symptoms of Cushing's--too much cortisol. At the doses we would use, it would NOT have these effects.

Because pred IS harder on the liver, if someone needs something "stronger" than HC, we tend to prefer Medrol.

Personally, I would insist on HC unless it wasn't "enough" ... then I'd insist on Medrol.
_________________
.

[JanSz]

MuscleChatRoom.com

Originally Posted by Chrisgj

First, before I begin, I will say that I have respect for Dr. Crislers knowledge and I have learned a lot from him. I have to be candid about my thoughts on this thread topic though, as well counter his relentless negative comments about me through the years. That is very rude and ignorant. I appreciate the many of you who support me.

Dr. Crisler, where have I tried to put myself out as a medical expert? My tag line says I'm not. How many times have I said "check with your doctor"? I limit myself to a few tests I will give opinions on, I explain when they are doing the HRT wrong (ie using Armour before treating AI) and I usually try to direct people to osteopaths. The people I deal with print out my response and show their doctor. I very rarely mention self treating. I can't remember the last time I mentioned it. Show where I've hurt anyone. I haven't.

Dr. Crisler, I should just post links to studies and articles? If I relied on that, most people wouldn't understand what tests to ask for, how the hormone ranges are flawed and virtually everyone falls in them or how to interpret the acth stim test or understand why the doses of dex prescribed for Addison's is messing up everyone or how to properly prepare for and interpret the aldosterone and renin tests or to insist on contrast as well as no contrast for pit MRI...

Many, many people have told me and that I saved their life from the info I put out. I literally saved the life of a woman who was in a coma and hours from death a couple of years ago. If it wasn't for me, she'd have died. He docs gave her solu-medrol and diagnosed her with Sheehan's syndrome only because of my input. The solu-medrol (the had kept her on solu-cortef) brought her out of the coma within a couple of hours and her recovery was remarkable. The docs with their "great knowledge" would have caused her to die. I also helped her get help with her thyroid.

You put down my Hypopituitary Faqs earlier this year. People have told me it's great. Are you that threatened by me that you would try keep people from reading good info such as that? There is nothing wrong with it, nothing dangerous about it. It's brilliant. (being arrogant for a moment).

I wrote an article on the ACTH stimulation test on Wikipedia. Will you put that article down as well because a patient wrote it? It's been read by over 20,000 people since I put it up in Feb. Between STTM and RTH read over 3,000 times. By this time next year at least 100,000 people will have read it. That article is helping a lot of people. I've got nothing but praise for it. Not one doc has criticized it. I've been told by patients their doc thought it was excellent and made sense and now use it to properly diagnose primary or secondary AI. Many