Problem keeping LH up

[zadok]

Hi,

I have been struggling with low test levels for a long while after buggering up my system with anabolics 2.5 yrs ago. My problem currently is low LH, but it seems a bit stange.

6 weeks ago I have these results:

LH: 2.07 miu/ml (1.1-7)
total T: 383ng/dl (270-1070
Free T: 35pg/ml (18-114)
SHBG: 16.6nmol/l (3.7-13.9)
E2: 12.8pg/ml (<62pg/ml)

After trying clomid 12.5mg/day for 2 weeks results as below:

LH: 11.5 miu/ml (1.1-7)
total T: 850ng/dl (270-1070)
Free T: 57pg/ml (18-114)
SHBG: 13.7nmol/l (3.7-13.9)
E2: 86pg/ml (<62pg/ml)

As you can see my E2 was high and I am guessing that is why free T was still low. My doctor told me that everything should settle down and I would be fine. Needless to say I did not feel any good at this point.

Two weeks later I went back to doctor as I was feeling really shit again. Further blood tests:

LH: 2.92 miu/ml (1.1-7)
total T: 401ng/dl (270-1070)
Free T: 41pg/ml (18-114)
SHBG: 15.2nmol/l (3.7-13.9)
E2: 21.7pg/ml (<62pg/ml)

Over the period of 2 weeks mt LH fell all the way back down, even though my E2 seems to be well in check. I cannot continuously take clomid as it raises my E2 through the roof. I can try to control it it AI's, but at the moment, I cannot work out why LH would fall so suddenly, doctor dont know either.

Any suggestions/advice

Zadok

[cwoody123]

I have had similar results except my Testosterone seems to still be elevated. I did a 3 week Clomid cycle and a week after finishing my LH went from 1.9 to 9.0 and my T went from 12 to 30 mnol. My E2 also went through the roof from 80 to 257 pmol. 4 Weeks after that blood test my LH came down to 2.6 and my T was down to 20.5 nmol. This weeks blood tests which have been 8 weeks since i came off the clomid came back at: LH 2.7 T 21.5 E2 126 So my T seems to be still elevated and my E2 is also high even thou it has dropped a fair bit.

I was thinking of using clomid in very low doses and maybe an anti-estrogen if this restart does not work. Sometimes just anti-estrogens can be used for raising lh but probably not not in your case as your E2 is in the sweet spot.

Also remeber that clomid can skew your E2 results and they may not be elevated at all, just appear to be so.

[Megazoid]

Your piturity cannot tell the difference between E2 and T and what cells are inhibited by each. If E2 is high it will signal the piturity to decrease LH output thus resulting in low LH, Low T and high E2. This will skew your free t a good bit, effect thyroid and a host of other things like cortisol, etc.

Try bringing the E2 down using either Derma or Armidex and then retest.

[Megazoid]

As a side note it might be worthwhile getting your thyroid checked out in full too because that effects SHBG, E2, etc and can lower Testosterone too (this is what happened to me). Get TSH, Free T3/T4 checked if possible.

[zadok]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

Your piturity cannot tell the difference between E2 and T and what cells are inhibited by each. If E2 is high it will signal the piturity to decrease LH output thus resulting in low LH, Low T and high E2. This will skew your free t a good bit, effect thyroid and a host of other things like cortisol, etc.

Try bringing the E2 down using either Derma or Armidex and then retest.

If you see my E2 results before and after clomid you will see it is on the lower side. If I lower it anymore, I feel like crap. High estrogen can not be the problem.

However this doesn't make much sense, because with just 12.5mg/day clomid my LH increases a lot. And since Clomid is blocking estrogen receptors in the pituitary to raise my LH, the problem must be estrogen related ?? I really dont know.

Zadok

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by zadok

If you see my E2 results before and after clomid you will see it is on the lower side. If I lower it anymore, I feel like crap. High estrogen can not be the problem.

However this doesn't make much sense, because with just 12.5mg/day clomid my LH increases a lot. And since Clomid is blocking estrogen receptors in the pituitary to raise my LH, the problem must be estrogen related ?? I really dont know.

Zadok

Hi Zadok,
You can't test Estrodiol when on clomid you need to be off it 4 weeks to get a good test. From what I see you need to get your self jump started from being shut down do to your use of steroids.
Read this sticky.
day one of attempting to restart

[zadok]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Hi Zadok,
You can't test Estrodiol when on clomid you need to be off it 4 weeks to get a good test. From what I see you need to get your self jump started from being shut down do to your use of steroids.
Read this sticky.
day one of attempting to restart

Hi Phil,

I m well aware that I need to jumpstart myself, however Clomid/nolva makes me feel far worse. I suspect It is from the increased E2 (can be seen from the resuts while on clomid).

Clomid did however raise my LH a lot. What I want to know is, why did LH drop back to where it was so fast upon stopping clomid. I cannot stand taking clomid for any amount of time because of the way it makes me feel.

Zadok

[JustOne]

Try ZMA.

[pmgamer18]

This E2 test is no good you were on clomid and you can't test E2 after being on clomid. You need to be off it for 4 weeks before doing a E2 test. You level is not 86 this is do to the clomid.
After trying clomid 12.5mg/day for 2 weeks results as below:

LH: 11.5 miu/ml (1.1-7)
total T: 850ng/dl (270-1070)
Free T: 57pg/ml (18-114)
SHBG: 13.7nmol/l (3.7-13.9)
E2: 86pg/ml (<62pg/ml)

Originally Posted by zadok

Hi Phil,

I m well aware that I need to jumpstart myself, however Clomid/nolva makes me feel far worse. I suspect It is from the increased E2 (can be seen from the resuts while on clomid).

Clomid did however raise my LH a lot. What I want to know is, why did LH drop back to where it was so fast upon stopping clomid. I cannot stand taking clomid for any amount of time because of the way it makes me feel.

Zadok

[role model]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

Your piturity cannot tell the difference between E2 and T and what cells are inhibited by each. If E2 is high it will signal the piturity to decrease LH output thus resulting in low LH, Low T and high E2. This will skew your free t a good bit, effect thyroid and a host of other things like cortisol, etc.

Try bringing the E2 down using either Derma or Armidex and then retest.

good post, i didn't no this. How bout Nolva.

[zadok]

Originally Posted by JustOne

Try ZMA.

What is ZMA?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by zadok

What is ZMA?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/zma.html

[zadok]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/zma.html

Thanks for the info.

is there evidence proving that this stuff increases LH, or does anyone on this board have good experience where ZMA increase LH/Test?

Zadok

[Megazoid]

zadok, ZMA will raise LH but i cannot confirm by how much, this will varey in every person depending on how active other hormones are, ratios, etc.

I would however recommend giving the new "Derma" product a try which is noted to raise LH and has been used in PCT recovery succesffuly by a few members. This is a more natural (and if cheaper?) alternative to SERM'S like Nolva/Clomid. This should have positive effects on thyroid function too.

[zadok]

I still have not really had my initial question answered.

LH went up very high while on clomid for 2 weeks or so. After I stop clomid, it falls to very low levels again. Why does LH not stay up, do I need to take clomid for a longer period of time and 'train' my body to get used to normal LH levels?

Zadok