Question about the "kickstart" HCG protocol vs. the Swale protocol

[The_Skeptic]

I am aware of Dr. Swale's protocal of using 250 IUs of HCG daily on the two days prior to your next weekly shot of 100 mg of Testosterone, and I know this has proven to be very effective for long-term users.

But I've also been reading about people who have kickstarted their pituitary system with HCG. I've read different protocals, but I'm not sure if any of those protocals involve testosterone.

I've been on TRT for more than ten years and I still have not reached full virilization so I'm wondering if I should try one of these kickstart protocols before I settle into Swale's protocol.

But would I have to stop TRT before I can attempt this? Is there any kickstart protocol that also includes TRT?

I am 37-years-old with secondary hypogonadism.

[1cc]

Read some of DavidZ's stickies at the top for kickstarting HPTA.

[DavidZ]

Originally Posted by 1cc

Read some of DavidZ's stickies at the top for kickstarting HPTA.

Actually, I deleted chapter 8 entitled "Can HCG Restart the HP Axis to Become Self-suficient Again?" from my TRT/HCG primer after extensive discussions here last year. If you do a search of this forum, you'll find these discussions. I think there's a thread I started with that title.

The reason I deleted this chapter is that, after these discussions, I abandoned the hope that my H/P axis could be completely restarted.

Anyway, here's the deleted chapter.

***************************************

Chapter 8 - Can HCG Restart the HP Axis to Become Self-suficient Again?

When I first diagnosed with hypogonadism in 1999, I searched the Internet and other sources to learn more about this condition. One of the key questions in my mind was – Can HCG restart the hypothalamus/pituitary axis to become self-sufficient again?

I had just read Dr. Shippen's "The Testosterone Syndrome," in which he says on page 195, "(H)CG works nicely with other natural boosters and, in the early stages of male menopause, is often only needed to give an initial cycling boost to the endocrine system. The pituitary continues on after this shove in the normal direction activates control panel receptors."

My repeated inquiries in the alt.support.impotence Usenet group yielded no significant response to this question. And no poster since then has claimed, or even hinted, that HCG restarted their hypothalamus/pituitary axis so that they no longer need HCG or anything else to produce normal levels of T on their own. The only exceptions are stories of steroid-using body builders who used HCG to restart their T production after a cycle of steroids. But absolutely no stories of remission from idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

My HCG stimulation test in February 2000 yielded a strong response. Shippen was greatly encouraged by my response and said that, eventually, I won’t need shots anymore. I was skeptical of this claim, even though I have yet to find even one of the many bold claims in Shippen's book to be overreaching in any way. And as I've said before, I believe that HCG is a superior alternative to standard TRT if it works for you, even if you have to take HCG shots for the rest of your life. So, while I was and am completely sold on HCG, I remain skeptical of the claim that HCG can restart a man to self-sufficiency.

Now here comes my experience. After my initial HCG stimulation test, I moved to 1,000 IU per week (500 IU on Mon & Thurs). I have recorded the dates and amounts of every HCG shot I have taken. The per shot dosage pattern is as follows:

2/2000 500 IU
5/2000 400 IU (started taking Selegiline at 2.5 mg/night)
2/2001 380 IU (started taking Chrysin gel)
3/2001 360 IU
5/2001 340 IU (started taking Indolplex)
8/2001 330 IU
6/2002 310 IU (stopped taking Chrysin gel)
2/2003 280 IU (decreased Selegiline to 1.9 mg/night)
4/2003 240 IU (decreased Selegiline to 1.5 mg/night)
6/2003 220 IU (decreased Selegiline to 1.3 mg/night)
8/2003 210 IU (decreased Selegiline to 1.2 mg/night)
1/2004 205 IU (decreased Selegiline to 1.0 mg/night)
6/2004 200 IU (decreased Selegiline to 0.7 mg/night)

So, right now, I'm taking 400 IU of HCG per week (200 IU on Mon & Thurs), 0.7 mg of Selegiline per night and about one quarter of a 120 mg Indolplex tablet per day. That's it. I take no other medications of any kind. The only other supplements I take are one Centrum Silver, and 12.5/1 mg of Zinc Picolinate/Copper.

As of this writing, my blood latest blood test results (7/24/04) were:

T 690 (260-1000)
Free T 157.1 (50-210)
E2 39 (no range specified for men)

While I can't yet conclude that HCG can restart the h/p axis to become self-sufficient again, it does appear that I'm heading in that direction. I should also say that I follow a strict program of diet/nutrition and exercise to control my T2 diabetes and to generally promote my health.

- David