question for the usual suspects (stat1951,pmgamer and mranak)soy and dht

[masterpp]

hey guys ive been trying nettle root recently to try and lower my shbg, which is very high. i have no idea why my shbg got so high, but i think it is because i went on a crash (atkins style) diet a couple of years ago.

i was concerned that my shbg was high to try and equal out my testosterone/estrogen ratio, in my favour, and that lowering it would be a bad idea, but my gp has told me that my shbg is far too high and that in my instance it is not helping.

any way i have been trying to lower it, and lower my estrogen slightly to give myself a better bioavailable T/estrogen ration.

anyhow the only effect i have noticed from the nettle root is that ive been having wet dreams, which is pretty unusual for me.

1. i was therefor wondering about whether any of the guys who know my posts would recommend i try soy isoflavones or muira puama, as i read about a guy who uses them to control SHBG and estogen

2. also can someone explain to me a little about DHT and receptors, and if there is anything i can do with regards to them/.

but i wouldnt try either of these products without consulting you lot first

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by masterpp

hey guys ive been trying nettle root recently to try and lower my shbg, which is very high. i have no idea why my shbg got so high, but i think it is because i went on a crash (atkins style) diet a couple of years ago.

i was concerned that my shbg was high to try and equal out my testosterone/estrogen ratio, in my favour, and that lowering it would be a bad idea, but my gp has told me that my shbg is far too high and that in my instance it is not helping.

any way i have been trying to lower it, and lower my estrogen slightly to give myself a better bioavailable T/estrogen ration.

anyhow the only effect i have noticed from the nettle root is that ive been having wet dreams, which is pretty unusual for me.

1. i was therefor wondering about whether any of the guys who know my posts would recommend i try soy isoflavones or muira puama, as i read about a guy who uses them to control SHBG and estogen

2. also can someone explain to me a little about DHT and receptors, and if there is anything i can do with regards to them/.

but i wouldnt try either of these products without consulting you lot first

I have this link on herbs asked SWALE what he thought about it and he said when he saw Soy in it he stopped reading it. I feel it is full of info so read it and see if this helps you understand what your trying to do. I can't tell you to try this or that you need to make up your mind and do like most of us try it and if it does not work try something different. This is what I did.
http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/hormones.html

[masterpp]

the guy on this site swears by isoflavones, but no one else thinks its a good idea

would DIM be a better option

[pmgamer18]

If your E2 and total E's are on the high side yes DIM will help.

[masterpp]

but what works better, soy isoflavones or DIM (particualrly with regards to SHBG

thanks

[pmgamer18]

I can only say how it worked for me taking DIM.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
Lowered my E2 and my Free T when way up. I never had my SHBG checked ever until just my last blood test and my SHBG is was 22 range 7 to 50 NMOL/L. I know when your Free T is up your SHBG is lower higher SHBG binds T and keep Free T down.

[DavidZ]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

I can only say how it worked for me taking DIM.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
Lowered my E2 and my Free T when way up. I never had my SHBG checked ever until just my last blood test and my SHBG is was 22 range 7 to 50 NMOL/L. I know when your Free T is up your SHBG is lower higher SHBG binds T and keep Free T down.

I agree with all that. However, my DHT runs low-normal and I suspect that it's the Indolplex/DIM that's doing it. I have no proof of that, but it's my best guess at this point. Also, Phil, I think you said that your DHT runs high and Indolplex/DIM lowered it, correct?

[pmgamer18]

Yes it did but when I was doing to much HCG 500 IU's 3 x's a week my DHT went up over 2204 range was 36 - 573 pg/ml. Now it is 94 ng/ml range 25 to 75 why the different units from one test to the other beats me. I have this link that says DIM binds to DHT but not sure what it means.
http://www.lef.org/whatshot/2003_05.html#i3cb

Indole-3-carbinol byproduct acts as antiandrogen to halt prostate cancer cell growth

In a study funded in part by the National Institutes of Health, to be published in the June 6 2003 issue of the Journal of Biological Chemistry, University of California, Berkeley researchers have found that a digestive product of indole-3-carbinol, which occurs naturally in broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables, halts the growth of prostate cancer cells in vitro. The compound, 3,3’-diindolymethane (DIM), inhibits androgenic hormones that fuel prostate cancer growth. Although androgen is important for the normal development of the prostate, it is believed to be involved in the early stages of prostate cancer.

The researchers administered DIM to androgen dependent and androgen independent prostate cancer cells and found that androgen-dependent cells experienced a 70 percent reduction in growth compared to those that did not receive the compound. Androgen-independent prostate cancer cells were not affected by DIM. The scientists went on to discover that DIM inhibited dihydrotestosterone, the primary androgenic hormone that is believed to be the culprit in prostate cancer. Dihydrotesterone stimulates prostate specific antigen, or PSA, which is elevated in prostate cancer. When DIM was administered to the androgen-dependent prostate cancer cells, PSA levels dropped.

A study of the molecular structure of DIM showed that it is similar to the androgen-blocking drug Casodex. Lead author Hien Le, PhD, explained, “DIM works by binding to the same receptor that DHT uses, so it's essentially blocking the androgen from triggering the growth of the cancer cells."

Principle researcher and professor nutritional sciences and toxicology at UC Berkeley's College of Natural Resources, Leonard Bjeldanes, summarized, "As far as we know, this is the first plant-derived chemical discovered that acts as an antiandrogen. This is of considerable interest in the development of therapeutics and preventive agents for prostate cancer."

—D Dye

[greatgro]

Originally Posted by masterpp

but what works better, soy isoflavones or DIM (particualrly with regards to SHBG

thanks

Not sure. But soy will definitely raise your estrogen or at least your estrogen effects. Not sure why any guy would want that. I stay away from soy like it's the plague.

[masterpp]

yeah everyone has said that Soy isoflavones are nutty.

i guess ill just try and get some DIM

but what about the DHT issue. i want dht, (i know that sounds rekless and immature) but i want to get more virilised.

so the general consent is that isoflavones are out of the question

x

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by masterpp

yeah everyone has said that Soy isoflavones are nutty.

i guess ill just try and get some DIM

but what about the DHT issue. i want dht, (i know that sounds rekless and immature) but i want to get more virilised.

so the general consent is that isoflavones are out of the question

x

Phytoestrogens have about 1/500 the strength of regular estrogen so this plant estrogen is really good for men if not taken to the point that all estrogen is eliminated. Remember estrogen drives the male libido so it is good and healthy to have estrogen. Men just don't want too much.The same goes for DHT which is a necessary hormone for sexual function and metabolism

And this.

Saw Palmetto reduces production of dihydrotestosterone and prolactin its catalyst. This can have a significant impact on the male personality while Nettle Root and oats extract reduces estradiol levels and inhibits SHBG respectively. DHEA stimulates hormone production. Together, these and many other alternative supplements can be used to reduce and often completely negate these negative effects of aging.

[masterpp]

sorry to keep going on but still havent got a straight answer as to whether taking soy isoflavones will lower estrogen.

some say stay away from it like the plague where as others say its alright

what do you guys think

x

[mranak]

Is Proviron available by prescription in the UK?

[masterpp]

pretty sure its not unfortuanatly

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by masterpp

pretty sure its not unfortuanatly

Yes soy isoflavones will lower estrogen. Here is how it works Isoflavones has a none acting type of E in it and this fills the cells so E2 can't get in but it will also stop T from getting in. So if your not doing to much of it it will work.
So here is the cut & paste again.

Phytoestrogens or Soy isoflavones have about 1/500 the strength of regular estrogen so this plant estrogen is really good for men if not taken to the point that all estrogen is eliminated. Remember estrogen drives the male libido so it is good and healthy to have estrogen. Men just don't want too much.The same goes for DHT which is a necessary hormone for sexual function and metabolism