Starting TRT@ 45 ?

[supdoc]

Need help understanding all this, I ve done the blood work and i'm working with my family Doc, and he says i do need TRT thearpy. My free test came back at 130 has anyone ever heard of it being that low? I will see the doc again on Friday. What dosage can i expect to be recommeded? This is very important also, what is the most economical approach as far as administering TRT I would think injectable, any thoughts? If i plan to supplement my TRT wih AAS low dosages like deca or EQ at approx. 250 mg/wk do I need to utilize PCT with TRT? I see alot of talk here about HCG will i need that as well? I have been fixed had all the children i need. Have no hair its been gone for 20 years.

[tommyguns2]

Supdoc,

With your low test reading, I think you will be happy with a TRT regimen. Everyone has different opinions, but going with injectable test is pretty economical. In my opinion, the best thing to do is start with solely test at somewhere between 100-200 mg/week (1 injection per week). Then, after 5-10 weeks, get another blood test to see where your levels are. Then you can tune your dosage up or down accordingly.

HCG is a must, in my opinion. A low dose test of only 100 mg/week will eventually shut you down, and result in testicular atrophy. The HCG is a synthetic LH that will signal your testes to keep working despite HPTA shutdown. That keeps the testes going and will facilitate recovery if you later decide to discontinue the TRT program.

Seems like there are several views of appropriate quantities of HCG. One popular protocol is to take 250-350 IU's on the two days prior to your next test injection.

Lastly, deca is not gonna do anything to fix your test levels. It may help give you some increased mass, but don't add it until you're comfortable with getting the correct test dosage. Deca is known to provide some joint relief, and helps add mass stacked with test, but if your ratio of test/deca drops below 2:1, you're likely to have erection problems.

[cpeil2]

Originally Posted by tommyguns2

Supdoc,

With your low test reading, I think you will be happy with a TRT regimen. Everyone has different opinions, but going with injectable test is pretty economical. In my opinion, the best thing to do is start with solely test at somewhere between 100-200 mg/week (1 injection per week). Then, after 5-10 weeks, get another blood test to see where your levels are. Then you can tune your dosage up or down accordingly.

HCG is a must, in my opinion. A low dose test of only 100 mg/week will eventually shut you down, and result in testicular atrophy. The HCG is a synthetic LH that will signal your testes to keep working despite HPTA shutdown. That keeps the testes going and will facilitate recovery if you later decide to discontinue the TRT program.

Seems like there are several views of appropriate quantities of HCG. One popular protocol is to take 250-350 IU's on the two days prior to your next test injection.

Lastly, deca is not gonna do anything to fix your test levels. It may help give you some increased mass, but don't add it until you're comfortable with getting the correct test dosage. Deca is known to provide some joint relief, and helps add mass stacked with test, but if your ratio of test/deca drops below 2:1, you're likely to have erection problems.

Good advice, but with a couple of inaccuracies:


Usual starting dose for shots is 100 mg/week. Some guys require more, some less.


HCG is a natural hormone that mimics LH.

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by cpeil2

Good advice, but with a couple of inaccuracies:


Usual starting dose for shots is 100 mg/week. Some guys require more, some less.


HCG is a natural hormone that mimics LH.

Hey, thanks so much for the replies, but i simply don't understand the use of HCG. I have read many articles. If I'm not worried about sperm production I.ve had a (visectomy)?spelling? and my testies are small and have been for many years then what will HCG do for me?
thanks. supdoc

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by supdoc

Need help understanding all this, I ve done the blood work and i'm working with my family Doc, and he says i do need TRT thearpy. My free test came back at 130 has anyone ever heard of it being that low? I will see the doc again on Friday. What dosage can i expect to be recommeded? This is very important also, what is the most economical approach as far as administering TRT I would think injectable, any thoughts? If i plan to supplement my TRT wih AAS low dosages like deca or EQ at approx. 250 mg/wk do I need to utilize PCT with TRT? I see alot of talk here about HCG will i need that as well? I have been fixed had all the children i need. Have no hair its been gone for 20 years.

Here is my take on this do not go on T meds until all testing possable have been done to find out why your low. You can have low Thyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, liver, low infection the list goes on. In a lot of cases fixing what is wrong will bring T levels back up. Doing TRT is for life and once you start on it it is dam hard to find out why you low.
Read the sticky on Testing and get all of these tests done.

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Here is my take on this do not go on T meds until all testing possable have been done to find out why your low. You can have low Thyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, liver, low infection the list goes on. In a lot of cases fixing what is wrong will bring T levels back up. Doing TRT is for life and once you start on it it is dam hard to find out why you low.
Read the sticky on Testing and get all of these tests done.

All of my test have been completed. Everything came back ok, except the free test levels At 130. Will start TRT at 50 mgs per day Testim 1% gel, does anyone know what kind of obsorbtion can i expect from the gel, will i actually get 50 mgs per day from this,?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by supdoc

All of my test have been completed. Everything came back ok, except the free test levels At 130. Will start TRT at 50 mgs per day Testim 1% gel, does anyone know what kind of obsorbtion can i expect from the gel, will i actually get 50 mgs per day from this,?

No I think you will get 10% of the gel goes into the blood.
This link is for Androgel but they are about the same.
http://www.androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

No I think you will get 10% of the gel goes into the blood.
This link is for Androgel but they are about the same.
http://www.androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

thanks for the reply, and the link.

[supdoc]

So about 5 grams per application, that meam i need to be taking a bath in the stuff to get anything from it. 3 days of applications sticky hands, sticky upper body and no results, yea this is some gooooood stuff. Good thind doc gave me samples cause i wont spend my hard earned money of this. Why does getting treatment have to be this difficult.

[love_en]

Originally Posted by supdoc

So about 5 grams per application, that meam i need to be taking a bath in the stuff to get anything from it. 3 days of applications sticky hands, sticky upper body and no results, yea this is some gooooood stuff. Good thind doc gave me samples cause i wont spend my hard earned money of this. Why does getting treatment have to be this difficult.

Didn't you know. It is all about money and politics. You are fortunate to have a doctor willing to even treat you. Before this gets off topic, treatment can be as simple as a 100 mg shot of cypionate or enanthate every week. HCG days 5 and 6 after your last shot. An AI if you are converting too much of your T to estrogen. To answer your question about AAS, there is no such thing as PCT. Due to your hypogonadism, you are no longer able to start a normal production of T. If you are secondary, your levels will drop to an unhealthy level after you discontinue the PCT drugs.

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by love_en

Didn't you know. It is all about money and politics. You are fortunate to have a doctor willing to even treat you. Before this gets off topic, treatment can be as simple as a 100 mg shot of cypionate or enanthate every week. HCG days 5 and 6 after your last shot. An AI if you are converting too much of your T to estrogen. To answer your question about AAS, there is no such thing as PCT. Due to your hypogonadism, you are no longer able to start a normal production of T. If you are secondary, your levels will drop to an unhealthy level after you discontinue the PCT drugs.

Love_en , i didn't understand the last sentence about being secondary. Can you explain.?

[love_en]

Sorry, for getting all medical. Secondary is short for secondary hypogonadsim. Which is characterized by low T levels and low LH/FSH levels. LH and FSH are the signals put out by the pituitary to the testes to produce more testosterone. If you are secondary like me, your pituitary does nothing in the face of uncomfortably low testosterone levels.

BTW how is the rest of your blood work? It is with significant frequency that a secondary hypogonadal is also hypothyroid and hypoadrenal. Having those two problems untreated makes for a very miserable life. It also gives TRT a bad name when a patient who is hypothyroid and hypoadrenal fails to respond to TRT because his cortisol and thyroid levels are low. In another time, a chronically fatigued and depressed person was strongly suspected of hypothyroidism. A sickly and weak person was examined for adrenal insufficiency. Those two conditions were also ruled out via a therapeutic trial of thyroid extract and cortisone.

What changed this was the advent of highly sensitive lab tests and SSRI antidepressants. My opinion is there is more money to be made by running tests on a patient, interpreting them with a flawed reference range, then treating the symptoms with a whole collection of drugs. Having said this, I am not dependent on doctors to treat my low cortisol or my hypogonadism. It is not their best interest to diagnose and treat me properly.

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by love_en

Sorry, for getting all medical. Secondary is short for secondary hypogonadsim. Which is characterized by low T levels and low LH/FSH levels. LH and FSH are the signals put out by the pituitary to the testes to produce more testosterone. If you are secondary like me, your pituitary does nothing in the face of uncomfortably low testosterone levels.

BTW how is the rest of your blood work? It is with significant frequency that a secondary hypogonadal is also hypothyroid and hypoadrenal. Having those two problems untreated makes for a very miserable life. It also gives TRT a bad name when a patient who is hypothyroid and hypoadrenal fails to respond to TRT because his cortisol and thyroid levels are low. In another time, a chronically fatigued and depressed person was strongly suspected of hypothyroidism. A sickly and weak person was examined for adrenal insufficiency. Those two conditions were also ruled out via a therapeutic trial of thyroid extract and cortisone.

What changed this was the advent of highly sensitive lab tests and SSRI antidepressants. My opinion is there is more money to be made by running tests on a patient, interpreting them with a flawed reference range, then treating the symptoms with a whole collection of drugs. Having said this, I am not dependent on doctors to treat my low cortisol or my hypogonadism. It is not their best interest to diagnose and treat me properly.

Thanks for the explanation. My other lab work came back fine according to the Doc, but i think i will request a copy of the test to see for my self. Thanks,

[love_en]

Be very careful when a doctor declares you fine based on your lab work. The reference ranges for testosterone, thyroid and cortisol have a pronounced negative skew. The reason for this is only people who have been feeling sick for a long time get those tests done. So unless you test at the top of the reference range for those other things call bullshit on the doctor's declaration that you are fine. Exception to that is the TSH, what you want there is a TSH way below the reference range. A high TSH combined with feeling chronicaly ill suggests hypothyroidism.