still riding the roller coaster...input?

[brownb01]

So…I was hoping I could get some input, and thoughts.

I am currently working with Dr. Crisler, and he has ordered some more testing. However, while I am waiting on my kit to show up in the mail, I wanted to run my thought process by you guys and see what you thought.

Currently I am applying 100mg of 10% compounded gel twice a day, and I do this first thing in the morning, and again around 3:00pm. I do a 250UI injection of HCG every other day. I keep the HCG for 60 days, and then replace. I’ve been doing this regimen for about 6 months. We did a urine workup about 3 months ago, test levels were at the top end, E was in check, and DHEA was low. We changed my compound gel around and added some DHEA to the compound. I’ve been doing the new compound for about a month and a half, and we haven’t tested with the new compound. My SBHG has always been at the very low end, and hasn’t changed since starting TRT.

Dr. Crisler states that I have a very hard time getting the T into my body, and what I do get into my system, I hyper metabolize it.

Here is what I notice…and honestly, I am very tired of this pattern. I can’t seem to feel good for an extended period of time. I keep a daily log, of how I feel, morning wood intensity, libido, and weight. I’ll do great for a month or so and then just plummet….which is where I happen to be now. I’ll feel great, my libido will be up, no ED issues, strong morning wood, my weight stays good, I’ll feel great and be strong in the gym, and then it seems everything just dies. And it seems to die very rapidly…as in overnight. For example…Two weeks ago I felt great! Since then, my morning woods are weak (but present most mornings) I have ZERO libido, and major ED issues (probably due to the lack of sex drive). My weight has gone up about 5 pounds in the last two weeks, my strength in the gym has gone down, my joints ache when working out, I am tired all the time, and can’t seem to wake up, and my motivation is gone. Getting up in the morning is a chore! I almost feel somewhat depressed. I also add, that my weight seems to always go up when I don’t feel to hot. I’ll also just add…I am 6ft, 200lbs, and 12% body fat. I have a very strict workout regimen, and I notice the slightest difference in strength, and how I feel.

As I stated, I have been keeping a log of how I feel, for well over a year now. And the only patterns I can find with how I feel is that I seem to start to feel worse when my HCG starts pushing about the 45 day mark. Dr. Crisler says I should be good for 60 days with each vial. What is the likely hood that the age of the HCG is affecting me? And is there any chance that the gel I am taking is really doing nothing (I honestly can’t tell when I miss a dose)? Is there any chance that my TRT is coming only from my HCG, and when it gets old, it loses its potency, and my Test levels start to drop? And then I start a new vial, and then I start to feel better when my test levels start coming back up, and then as the HCG gets old…start going back down on the test levels? It’s really the only pattern I can seem to find. And since the doc states that I have a hard time getting the compounded T into my system…is there a chance that maybe it’s not getting in at all…?

Anyways…just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys. I’m working with a reputable doctor, and he’s testing…so we’ll know more in a few weeks. I am hoping my test kits shows up before my new HCG does. I’d actually like to test while I am feeling bad. It seems all my previous testing takes place when I am feeling pretty good.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by brownb01

So…I was hoping I could get some input, and thoughts.

I am currently working with Dr. Crisler, and he has ordered some more testing. However, while I am waiting on my kit to show up in the mail, I wanted to run my thought process by you guys and see what you thought.

Currently I am applying 100mg of 10% compounded gel twice a day, and I do this first thing in the morning, and again around 3:00pm. I do a 250UI injection of HCG every other day. I keep the HCG for 60 days, and then replace. I’ve been doing this regimen for about 6 months. We did a urine workup about 3 months ago, test levels were at the top end, E was in check, and DHEA was low. We changed my compound gel around and added some DHEA to the compound. I’ve been doing the new compound for about a month and a half, and we haven’t tested with the new compound. My SBHG has always been at the very low end, and hasn’t changed since starting TRT.

Dr. Crisler states that I have a very hard time getting the T into my body, and what I do get into my system, I hyper metabolize it.

Here is what I notice…and honestly, I am very tired of this pattern. I can’t seem to feel good for an extended period of time. I keep a daily log, of how I feel, morning wood intensity, libido, and weight. I’ll do great for a month or so and then just plummet….which is where I happen to be now. I’ll feel great, my libido will be up, no ED issues, strong morning wood, my weight stays good, I’ll feel great and be strong in the gym, and then it seems everything just dies. And it seems to die very rapidly…as in overnight. For example…Two weeks ago I felt great! Since then, my morning woods are weak (but present most mornings) I have ZERO libido, and major ED issues (probably due to the lack of sex drive). My weight has gone up about 5 pounds in the last two weeks, my strength in the gym has gone down, my joints ache when working out, I am tired all the time, and can’t seem to wake up, and my motivation is gone. Getting up in the morning is a chore! I almost feel somewhat depressed. I also add, that my weight seems to always go up when I don’t feel to hot. I’ll also just add…I am 6ft, 200lbs, and 12% body fat. I have a very strict workout regimen, and I notice the slightest difference in strength, and how I feel.

As I stated, I have been keeping a log of how I feel, for well over a year now. And the only patterns I can find with how I feel is that I seem to start to feel worse when my HCG starts pushing about the 45 day mark. Dr. Crisler says I should be good for 60 days with each vial. What is the likely hood that the age of the HCG is affecting me? And is there any chance that the gel I am taking is really doing nothing (I honestly can’t tell when I miss a dose)? Is there any chance that my TRT is coming only from my HCG, and when it gets old, it loses its potency, and my Test levels start to drop? And then I start a new vial, and then I start to feel better when my test levels start coming back up, and then as the HCG gets old…start going back down on the test levels? It’s really the only pattern I can seem to find. And since the doc states that I have a hard time getting the compounded T into my system…is there a chance that maybe it’s not getting in at all…?

Anyways…just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys. I’m working with a reputable doctor, and he’s testing…so we’ll know more in a few weeks. I am hoping my test kits shows up before my new HCG does. I’d actually like to test while I am feeling bad. It seems all my previous testing takes place when I am feeling pretty good.

After 30 day start new HCG vial.
Not much sense of wasting money on urine test, that test is more expensive than HCG.
.
I hope your doc would not object to that when you as him about it.
.
You are applying a lots of testosterone.
100mg of 10% 2x/day=20mg/day

1000mg of 1% 1x/da=10mg/day

That would be equal to 20grams/day of Androgel

when I was on Androgel 10gram/day I was just right.
When I changed to twice the dose but 10%cream I got 1/3 of action, it did not worked for me.
Eventually I changed to Tshots.
Androgel & Tcreams were raising my DHT sky high.
.
.

[brownb01]

yes, I've got some ordered. Should be here next week.

And as far as the tests go...insurance pays, so not a huge deal...and it's time to test again anyways.

I was just kinda curious if my thought process made any sense, and is possible.

thanks!

[BrianEE93]

Just curious, are you using BAC water with the HCG?

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by BrianEE93

Just curious, are you using BAC water with the HCG?

Yes. Are there other options?

[BrianEE93]

Originally Posted by brownb01

Yes. Are there other options?

Not any good ones. I was just making sure you weren't using the sterile water it comes with.

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by BrianEE93

Not any good ones. I was just making sure you weren't using the sterile water it comes with.

well...crap. I've been using Noverall and I thought it came with BAC water. I don't have any front of me to verify.

So...I should get some BAC somewhere? and use that instead of what it comes with?

[snipe]

Originally Posted by brownb01

well...crap. I've been using Noverall and I thought it came with BAC water. I don't have any front of me to verify.

So...I should get some BAC somewhere? and use that instead of what it comes with?

I've used Novarel and Abraxis brands of HCG, both come with bacteriostatic water.

From the Novarel package insert........

"AFTER RECONSTITUTION WITH BACTERIOSTATIC WATER FOR INJECTION PRESERVED WITH BENZYL ALCOHOL 0.9%, REFRIGERATE THE PRODUCT AT 2° - 8° C (36° - 46° F) AND USE WITHIN 30 DAYS."

Abraxis says 60 days. Not sure why the difference.

[BrianEE93]

Snipe is right. It is just usually the "internet" stores that sell you amps and I have seen them with a 1ml vial of sterile water not BAC water.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by brownb01

well...crap. I've been using Noverall and I thought it came with BAC water. I don't have any front of me to verify.

So...I should get some BAC somewhere? and use that instead of what it comes with?

I would use as intended by manufacturer, powder and dilutant.
.
.

[brownb01]

good deal...glad I have been mixing it right.

Here is an update...I've read that guys often start to double the dose of HCG as it gets old. So...since mine is now over the 60 day mark, and I still don't have the new stuff...I figured what the hell, and I've been doing 500UI every other day for the past 6 days or so. The first day I only went up to 350UI and I could tell a difference...so the next dose I went to 500UI, and I was feeling better by the end of the day. Libido was improved, and mood was much better. Today I was even better. However...get this, I went out of town over the weekend, and got busy woke up way late and all of that stuff, and completely forgot my gel for my Saturday afternoon dose, and all of my Sunday doses. I remembered late Sunday afternoon, and since I was feeling good...actually better, I said what the hell and didn't apply it. I woke up today with a nice wood, felt good...and thought the same thing...what the hell...I am feeling good. I haven't taken the gel in over two days and I am feeling better...so why not go with it and see what happens.

So...My thought process the entire time was that this gel wasn’t getting into my system...which is why I stopped it two years ago and went to injections. Anyways...when I started with Dr. Crisler, he wanted to put me back on gels, and give it a whirl. Since he is a subject matter expert...I have taken his advice. However, now I am really curious if the gel is going anything at all. I think I am feeling better the past few days...because I upped the dose of my OLD hcg, and now I am getting closer to what I have been used to. And since I haven't noticed any change from not applying the gel, that maybe my assumption about it not doing anything was correct? Thoughts?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by brownb01

good deal...glad I have been mixing it right.

Here is an update...I've read that guys often start to double the dose of HCG as it gets old. So...since mine is now over the 60 day mark, and I still don't have the new stuff...I figured what the hell, and I've been doing 500UI every other day for the past 6 days or so. The first day I only went up to 350UI and I could tell a difference...so the next dose I went to 500UI, and I was feeling better by the end of the day. Libido was improved, and mood was much better. Today I was even better. However...get this, I went out of town over the weekend, and got busy woke up way late and all of that stuff, and completely forgot my gel for my Saturday afternoon dose, and all of my Sunday doses. I remembered late Sunday afternoon, and since I was feeling good...actually better, I said what the hell and didn't apply it. I woke up today with a nice wood, felt good...and thought the same thing...what the hell...I am feeling good. I haven't taken the gel in over two days and I am feeling better...so why not go with it and see what happens.

So...My thought process the entire time was that this gel wasn’t getting into my system...which is why I stopped it two years ago and went to injections. Anyways...when I started with Dr. Crisler, he wanted to put me back on gels, and give it a whirl. Since he is a subject matter expert...I have taken his advice. However, now I am really curious if the gel is going anything at all. I think I am feeling better the past few days...because I upped the dose of my OLD hcg, and now I am getting closer to what I have been used to. And since I haven't noticed any change from not applying the gel, that maybe my assumption about it not doing anything was correct? Thoughts?

If you are secondary, HCG is all that you may need.
That is, if testicles produce enough testosterone just on HCG, do not add Testosterone.
There is a couple guys that do that.

1000-1250iu HCG E3D
They found E3D schdule is important.

Proper, frequent testing is important.
At certain HCG levels, some people produce excessive E2, so they have to back down on HCG.
If at that point they do not have enough testosterone they have do add small T shots to make up the difference.

You have enough testosterone if
FreeT calculated from TotalT and SHBG using chart
FreeT(160-300)
The closer to 300 the better.
.
.

[brownb01]

ok, thanks for the info. My urine kit showed up today. I hate to do the test on a day I feel good...I am thinking I might hold on to it...until, or if I start to feel bad again. Is that a good idea? or should just go ahead and test?

I can ask Dr. Crisler as well...but from what I tell from him, if I am feeling good...he's probably ok with holding off for awhile.

thanks!

[Shootist]

The only downside to experimenting with your treatment is that it'll throw your levels out of whack. Your urine test won't accurately reflect what the ordered dosage is actually doing. Get back on the gel dosage for 2 weeks and then do your urine test. It would seem to me that he'll have you feeling better sooner if he can really see how your body is reacting.

[hardasnails1973]

i am currently working on a solution to this hypermetabolic problem because I have a few people with same issue that fall into the same profile on other evasive testing and finding out alot of information. Once I get it confirmed through clincal testing and resolution of symtpoms. I will publish it.

[Dutch Buster]

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

i am currently working on a solution to this hypermetabolic problem because I have a few people with same issue that fall into the same profile on other evasive testing and finding out alot of information. Once I get it confirmed through clincal testing and resolution of symtpoms. I will publish it.

same here if i change something i feel better couple of days or weeks after that crash again.......

only metabolic rate is low getting more and more fatt....

[hardasnails1973]

if your test and estrogen are in check you need to examine adrenal and thyroid , insulin function further . they are internlinked heavily

[brownb01]

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

if your test and estrogen are in check you need to examine adrenal and thyroid , insulin function further . they are internlinked heavily

yeah...I've been at this for 2+ years, I have had all of that checked time and time again.

And I've followed the advise here, and do what the doc says, wait and test, and go from there. I guess what gets so frustraighting is that I do that, and I am still on this (*&*&^# roller coaster. It's great for 3-4 weeks after a doc changes somethings, and then it's back down. It doesn't make sense to test when I feel good. I would think we would want a test when I feel good, and one when I don't.

I am going to go back on what the doc says...however, I am not going to let me HCG get so old. I am going to replace it at 30 days. It seems to me I feel better when my HCG is fresh. I'll bring this up to the doc as well, next time we speak.