Tongkat Ali + DIM + TMG = works

[eeso]

About 2-3 weeks ago I had a blood test where my total test was 9 (11 - 33). I am 24 years old. My blood tests consistently come back around 9-12 on that scale. I have a pituitary problem so my levels have always been low - I've tried TRT but have been drug free for 8 months now.

A friend of mine bought some Tongkat Ali as he raves about it when he's low after a cycle, and got a second bottle for me. This brand: http://www.newlifealternatives.com/
50:1 extract @ 400mg per cap.

I tried taking 2 caps a day and as expected - it did nothing.

However, since upping the dose to 3 caps a day and taking 1 DIM (olympian brand - cheap) and 1 TMG (NOW brand - v cheap) tablet the results have been significant. I had the DIM and TMG just lying about and I thought they might be a good idea to work with the tongkat. I'm also taking 1000mg of l-arginine a day but I don't know if that has any significance.

My energy is VERY MUCH increased. I'm feeling hornier. My wang is bigger during the day. Erections come easier and are stronger. I just generally feel better all round - I'm even sleeping better. My mind feels clearer and more positive too.

I'll get some labs done in the next few weeks and see if there's been any measurable change. I don't expect any sort of huge increases as it only takes a small increase in free test to feel better, but nonetheless it seems to be working.

Of course I don't believe it would do anything if you're on any sort of TRT, but for the guys with low levels and not on any meds it might be worth a shot.

Just so you know, I don't fall for placebos and I had pretty much given up on anything working and even TRT is night impossible for me to get right. I definitely feel something from this combo.




Links:

Tongkat: http://www.newlifealternatives.com/
Expensive but good quality tongkat: http://www.tongkatali.org
DIM: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/olabs/dim.html
TMG: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/tmg.html

[Primordial Performance]

Good to hear results from a natural remedy.

-Pp

[eeso]

Yep for sure.

I should also add that i get night boners/morning wood and wang is working crazy good now.

I've tried DIM and TMG before and it didn't really help.

I tried 2x Tongkat ALi on its own and it didn't help.

3x Tongkat, 1x DIM, 1x TMG together is working a treat!

I honestly think I feel good enough not to go back on hrt. Hopefully the effects are maintainable though.

[Andromeda]

Originally Posted by eeso

Yep for sure.

I should also add that i get night boners/morning wood and wang is working crazy good now.

I've tried DIM and TMG before and it didn't really help.

I tried 2x Tongkat ALi on its own and it didn't help.

3x Tongkat, 1x DIM, 1x TMG together is working a treat!

I honestly think I feel good enough not to go back on hrt. Hopefully the effects are maintainable though.

Hiya m8,
Have you tested the Tongkat Ali on its own, or with DIM but not TMG
eg: Test 1 : Tonkat Ali alone
Test 2: Tonkat Ali and DIM

If so did u still get the improved gonadal function? Im gonna look into this Tongkat stuff a bit more. How hard is it getting it in?

Cheers

[eeso]

Hey mate,

I tried 2x tongkat ali pills on their own and didnt notice an effect.

When i went to 3x tongkat + dim + tmg i certainly notice effects.

I should probably try 3x tongkat without dim and tmg. I don't think TMG would have much short term effect anyway. I just figured DIM and TMG would work well in combination with the tongkat.

My mate takes 2-3 caps of tongkat without anything else and says it gets him horny as, and he's also got low levels at the moment from recovery from steroids.

I've also become a bit greasy and had some acne breaking out. I took today off the tongkat because you're meant to cycle it 5 days on, 3 days off or so, and certainly haven't been as rowdy. It must work very quickly if i notice a drop off from not using it only 1 day. When I go back on in a day or two I'll try without the DIM and TMG. I'll get blood tests done when I've finished experimenting. I'm also going to try higher doses of tongkat to see what happens. They recommend taking anywhere up to 6 pills a day for athletic purposes.

*warning dont read this next bit if u dont wanna hear about my sex improvements*
My girlfriend said my balls are feeling really good (bigger and heavier) haha. And my erections are better too. Yesterday I was doing work on the computer all day and didn't see the gf, and had to whack off 3 times.

[Sunkist]

Pasak Bumi or Tongkat Ali have always interested me. I think that like so mant alternatives, they work better for some of us than others. I do use the combination you mention with some other herbals to influence LH and FSH. I have good results with this in light of supplimenting with transdermal T.

One thing to look at also is Dopamine manipulation. I believe Tongkat has an effect there especially in conjunction with Yohimbine.

Some on /off is always good. I run longer cycles now than I used to with herbals, but I use more and in smaller doses... like hormones who influence things naturally in the body in miniscule doses, one keeps constant levels, but something outside- the system can get used to.

[JanSz]

My experience,
I used made by
Herbal Powers Chicago, IL 60612
Alpha Male
and
LJ100

Alpha Male worked little bit then stopped
LJ100
did absolutely nothing for me.

Latter I seen posted that some herbal supplements of this type have unlisted ingredient, viagra.

I still have opened and unopened bottles of this s*it, not sure if I should give it for free to some sucker or just throw it away.

I am looking at the bottles writting this, can provide any info from those bottles if asked.

[eeso]

Jansz,

You have to stay clear of the big name brand stuff. You gotta get stuff that is direct from the source. tongkatali.org is the source, and a lot of the brands on ebay are just labelled version from re-sellers. That's the good stuff.

I wouldn't waste my time on any big name big advertised product. They're either underdosed or use shit sources etc etc.

The real stuff is legit. I look forward to seeing some blood results, though I'm not liking this acne!

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by eeso

Jansz,

You have to stay clear of the big name brand stuff. You gotta get stuff that is direct from the source. tongkatali.org is the source, and a lot of the brands on ebay are just labelled version from re-sellers. That's the good stuff.

I wouldn't waste my time on any big name big advertised product. They're either underdosed or use shit sources etc etc.

The real stuff is legit. I look forward to seeing some blood results, though I'm not liking this acne!

They were swearing up and down that they are the legit direct source, and had company people picking up the stuff in Malaysia just to make sure.

I am glad it is working for you.

Have you tried Viagra or Cialis, did it work for you?

Do you know that you can buy powder Cialis for pennies,(most likely made in India or China).
Couple months ago there was a post on this.

When Cialis stops working it is usulay high E2.
================================================== ======
On a second look at the title of this thread, have you tried skipping TongKat and just stick with DIM+TMG
possibly your actual problem is 2/16 ratio of estrones.

[eeso]

I have cialis but my aim is to be in a position where I don't need it. I can't import it for pennies because my country's customs is crazy good and won't get through. I can get it scripted and it costs about $15-$20 per tab! Rediculous.

But yeah, cialis works for me but I don't want to use it.

[Andromeda]

Originally Posted by eeso

*warning dont read this next bit if u dont wanna hear about my sex improvements*
My girlfriend said my balls are feeling really good (bigger and heavier) haha. And my erections are better too. Yesterday I was doing work on the computer all day and didn't see the gf, and had to whack off 3 times.

haha! absolute gold... How did u find out about this stuff and have u got a URL that explains how it works? Also have you tried Yohimbine with any success - thats one thing I havent tried that I think could be a goer.... I think my hormonal profile is more like that of an asian man (lots of thyroid and blood type A) so if its asian I'm likely to give it more of a look in at moment...

Cya m8

[hooker]

It's unlikely that Tongkat Ali does anything noticable for increasing test or having an anabolic effect. It's a libido booster, and that's probably all.

Dermacrine is likely a better libido booster, and has added ergogenic effects.

[hardasnails1973]

This will not work for primary hypogonadism Long jack is similar to hcg it sends out the signal if balls are not responding it will not work

[wildfox]

Originally Posted by hooker

It's unlikely that Tongkat Ali does anything noticable for increasing test or having an anabolic effect. It's a libido booster, and that's probably all.

Dermacrine is likely a better libido booster, and has added ergogenic effects.

Ergogenic? Which ingredients in Dermacrine are ergogenic?

[madclown]

Eesso, how are you doing? Are you still on the Tonkat + DIM +TMG regimen and if so, have the improvements been maintained?

Please update us.

[eeso]

I haven't taken tongkat for a while as I was running low on them.

I definitely notice a difference when I am on them and when I'm not, and my nuts are definitely bigger.

Dermacrine Sustain also made me feel good.

Tongkat + Dim + TMG + Dermacrine Sustain is a very good mix for those of us on the low end of the normal range testosterone. I don't think anything other than proper medication will help those with completely terrible below range levels, but for those of us that can get by on lowish levels with correct lifestyle management - this combo is a big help.

[MongolHahn]

Went off of TRT for 2 months (after testing) and went on this protocol for those two months).

Tongkat Ali as he raves about it when he's low after a cycle, and got a second bottle for me. This brand: http://www.newlifealternatives.com/ - 50:1 extract @ 400mg per cap. I tried taking 2 caps a day and as expected - it did nothing. However, since upping the dose to 3 caps a day and taking 1 DIM (olympian brand - cheap) and 1 TMG (NOW brand - v cheap) tablet the results have been significant.

It did absolutely nothing. Total T and Free T levels dropped drastically Total T almost to below where it initially was (which was below normal) and Free T almost to low initial levels (just barely above bottom end of range). Libido disappeared. Erections weak and rare. Even added (last couple weeks) Tribulus and Yohimbine in strong doses... and nothing.

And what is this about being drug free?

My TRT consists of bioidentical testosterone injections. The molecules of Testosterone absorbed into the system are identical to those that my body produces.

The only "natural product" that I have found to help T levels has been extract of Nettles Root. It doesn't increase Total T levels at all.... but if you have decent levels of Total T but poor levels of Free T, this would be good for you as nettles extract root inhibits the binding of Total T, therfore increasing levels of Free T,

I think these other types of Testosterone "cures" are mainly placebo hype that "appear to work" for a few weeks because of that placebo effect, but then "stop working" as there was no scientific rationale behind them anyway.

[eeso]

I've been on way too many HRT protocols and other drugs to fall for placebos.

Although my Total Testosterone didn't change significantly, my LH and FSH more than doubled - I have blood tests showing this. My nuts become bigger and erections better. I didn't even tell my girlfriend I was on anything and she would comment how my 'package' felt really good and was bigger.

As I said, the stuff makes me feel better but I've been off HRT a long time so I'm used to bottom of range levels, so I will notice any boost.

If you only just come off HRT and try it, of course you're not going to feel better because you're still used to being on 100+mg of test a week.

[Hyde12]

Originally Posted by eeso

About 2-3 weeks ago I had a blood test where my total test was 9 (11 - 33). I am 24 years old. My blood tests consistently come back around 9-12 on that scale. I have a pituitary problem so my levels have always been low - I've tried TRT but have been drug free for 8 months now.

A friend of mine bought some Tongkat Ali as he raves about it when he's low after a cycle, and got a second bottle for me. This brand: http://www.newlifealternatives.com/
50:1 extract @ 400mg per cap.

I tried taking 2 caps a day and as expected - it did nothing.

However, since upping the dose to 3 caps a day and taking 1 DIM (olympian brand - cheap) and 1 TMG (NOW brand - v cheap) tablet the results have been significant. I had the DIM and TMG just lying about and I thought they might be a good idea to work with the tongkat. I'm also taking 1000mg of l-arginine a day but I don't know if that has any significance.

My energy is VERY MUCH increased. I'm feeling hornier. My wang is bigger during the day. Erections come easier and are stronger. I just generally feel better all round - I'm even sleeping better. My mind feels clearer and more positive too.

I'll get some labs done in the next few weeks and see if there's been any measurable change. I don't expect any sort of huge increases as it only takes a small increase in free test to feel better, but nonetheless it seems to be working.

Of course I don't believe it would do anything if you're on any sort of TRT, but for the guys with low levels and not on any meds it might be worth a shot.

Just so you know, I don't fall for placebos and I had pretty much given up on anything working and even TRT is night impossible for me to get right. I definitely feel something from this combo.




Links:

Tongkat: http://www.newlifealternatives.com/
Expensive but good quality tongkat: http://www.tongkatali.org
DIM: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/olabs/dim.html
TMG: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/tmg.html

I think you would like the Tongkat better if you dropped the DIM. I hate that stuff because it lowers DHT. I like Tongkat and it is so much stronger than what people give it credit for.

[madclown]

I think you would like the Tongkat better if you dropped the DIM. I hate that stuff because it lowers DHT.

How do you know DIM reduces DHT? Do you have studies to show this?

I have been curious about this myself for some time but have yet to see conclusive proof, as I'm trying to lower E2 but not surpress DHT.