Tranylcypromine (Parnate) or selegiline?

[loopy107]

recently my phsyciatrist prescribed me selegiline patch because I cant feel love emotion and lack of any desire and much more problems. Wellbutrin was to weak for me. So when I went to pick up my prescription it cost $400 after my insurance coverage. So I refused to buy it. My doc now prescribes me Tranylcypromine (Parnate), but I hear it has bad sexual side effects and dosen't really increase dopamine like selegiline. Selegiline I heard can increase sexual desire(dopamine of course) but it is to much money.

Has anyone hear taken any of these meds and can fill me in on any info as far sexual desire or effects?

How about ritalin, adderall, or concerta?

I recently came of off trt because it sucked and acually made my libido worse! All these e2 problems no matter how many different ways I took arimidex or split my shots up it was useless!

I've been battling with serious issues for many years now and need any info!

[Sonny]

I've been on oral Selegeline and the patch, too.

The oral one has to be dosed 3x per day and the unsteadiness of the dosing is a major drawback, IMO. The patch seemed better and both seemed to improve libido.

Selegiline doesn't have the dietary restrictions of Parnate. Be careful with the Parnate and make sure you understand what you can't have.

If you want to try Selegiline and don't want to pay the insane cost of the patch, try the oral version and dose it 3x a day. It will be a good predictor regarding what you could expect on the patch (Emsam).

Sonny

[loopy107]

My doc refused to give me the oral version because he said it was not fda approved like the patch.
He said he is not sure what type of effects it may have. I' m pissed about it. I dont want to take parnate.
I may just ask for ritalin or adderall and see how those do as a dopamine inhancer!


I know the restrictions on parnate already, but want to know if it can increase libido like selegiline?


Do you think adderall or ritalin will work almost as good s selegiline?

[jinxie1]

I took Parnate for a year. It ends up that my depression was secondary to other issues -- hypothyroid, secondary hypogonadism, and quite possibly adrenal fatigue. Notwithstanding, I'd have to say that Parnate is the only drug that dug me out of the depths and gave me some energy, all without compromising my libido or sexual ability. In fact, I would say that it spurred my libido and hardened my erections. It is considered the best AD for treatment-resistant depression, bar none.

HOWEVER, and this is very important, if you suffer from issues related to your pituitary or hypothalamus, and you have excessive catecholamines (e.g., adrenalin and dopamine), Parnate can send you into a hypertensive state even if you are avoiding tyramine, by increasing adrenalin. That's what it ultimately did to me. When I reduced the dosage, the near hypertensive states ended, though I continued to suffer from labile blood pressure as a consequence of autonomic issues (e.g., POTS). I ultimately stopped because of sleep-related issues. Parnate is known to completely suppress REM, and, therefore, results in highly fragmented sleep. I could only sleep with Seroquel (quells the adrenalin), which made me as dumb as a door.

As pertains to the diet, I found that I could ingest a fair amount of tyramine without incident. I slowly tested it, and never had a problem. That said, I am very attuned to my body, and I can feel when my blood pressure is rising, so if you experiment, be cautious and check your BP frequently.

Hope this helps.
~j

[Sonny]

Great post, jinxie!

Sonny

[loopy107]

Originally Posted by jinxie1

I took Parnate for a year. It ends up that my depression was secondary to other issues -- hypothyroid, secondary hypogonadism, and quite possibly adrenal fatigue. Notwithstanding, I'd have to say that Parnate is the only drug that dug me out of the depths and gave me some energy, all without compromising my libido or sexual ability. In fact, I would say that it spurred my libido and hardened my erections. It is considered the best AD for treatment-resistant depression, bar none.

HOWEVER, and this is very important, if you suffer from issues related to your pituitary or hypothalamus, and you have excessive catecholamines (e.g., adrenalin and dopamine), Parnate can send you into a hypertensive state even if you are avoiding tyramine, by increasing adrenalin. That's what it ultimately did to me. When I reduced the dosage, the near hypertensive states ended, though I continued to suffer from labile blood pressure as a consequence of autonomic issues (e.g., POTS). I ultimately stopped because of sleep-related issues. Parnate is known to completely suppress REM, and, therefore, results in highly fragmented sleep. I could only sleep with Seroquel (quells the adrenalin), which made me as dumb as a door.

As pertains to the diet, I found that I could ingest a fair amount of tyramine without incident. I slowly tested it, and never had a problem. That said, I am very attuned to my body, and I can feel when my blood pressure is rising, so if you experiment, be cautious and check your BP frequently.

Hope this helps.
~j

I have low levels of dopamine and adrenal. I can't feel love emotions and haven't growing up! I usually get tired easy as well. So I don't have excessive catecholamines. I've never had a really good sexual life even when my testosterne was fine.

How would you rate this drug far as a dopamine enhancer which is really what I need?

[jinxie1]

I dont think you can infer that you dont have high catecholamines because you are fatigued. I'm fatigued as well. When you have excessive adrenalin flowing at the wrong times, you dont get restorative sleeps, and then the adrenals continue to stress themselves by upregulating to keep you going, particularly if you drink caffeine, etc.

MAO's do address dopamine, but I am not sure that this is the best med for you. There are dopamine agonists that may be helpful (if a doctor is willing), and there are also amphetamine, which is much more narrowly tailored than the MAO.

If you cant get the patch, oral Deprenyl may be a candidate. Additionally, bupropion works well for some -- it definitely stimulated me sexually, and most ADs do the opposite for me.

Finally, there are some TCAs that may work, though I could never tolerate the side effects.

Sorry I cant be of more help. I really think you need to find a good psychopharmacologist.

Best of luck,
j

[loopy107]

Originally Posted by jinxie1

I dont think you can infer that you dont have high catecholamines because you are fatigued. I'm fatigued as well. When you have excessive adrenalin flowing at the wrong times, you dont get restorative sleeps, and then the adrenals continue to stress themselves by upregulating to keep you going, particularly if you drink caffeine, etc.

MAO's do address dopamine, but I am not sure that this is the best med for you. There are dopamine agonists that may be helpful (if a doctor is willing), and there are also amphetamine, which is much more narrowly tailored than the MAO.

If you cant get the patch, oral Deprenyl may be a candidate. Additionally, bupropion works well for some -- it definitely stimulated me sexually, and most ADs do the opposite for me.

Finally, there are some TCAs that may work, though I could never tolerate the side effects.

Sorry I cant be of more help. I really think you need to find a good psychopharmacologist.

Best of luck,
j

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! Unfortunately, my doc won't give me the oral version. I can talk to him about other meds but, if Parnate is strong at enhancing dopamine then I would try it. My only problem is whenever I do research, I dont find a lot of info explaining how strong it is for dopamine affects.

This is really what I want to know. How strong or weak is it for enhancing dopamine?

I know there are meds that enhancing dopamine but are weak and don't do the job. I dont want to pay for parnate if it is weak like wellbutrin. When I took wellbutrin it had only small effects on me at 400mg per day!

[jinxie1]

Here's what you want, my friend. http://meds.queensu.ca/~clpsych/orie...on%20Chart.pdf Note, I found this after typing the below, but I recall that this is the best summary of the ADs and their affects on the different neuro horomones that I could find.

My hunch is that you will get stronger dopamine action out of a dopamine agonist. But you will need a shrink that thinks outside the box, as it would be an off-label use. It sounds like your doc does not think out of the box.

I believe Parnate affects dopamine to a greater extent than Wellbutrin, which primarily works on norepinephrine. And if you have the pharmacy order the generic, it's dirt cheap. I have about 6 months worth of it in my house -- I wish I could give it to you, but alas I cant, particularly given its side effect profile. Note, it's extremely activating, unlike its sister MAOi. Like I said, Wellbutrin users often have positive sexual experiences on this med, and it is often precribed in subtherapeutic doses as an adjunct for this purpose -- anti-ED.

While amphetamine does increase dopamine significantly, it often makes getting wood and getting off a challenge. Though it can increase libido. Think cocaine.

I dont understand why your doc will not prescribe Deprenyl. Perhaps because it is not an AD according to the PDR, even though it is in patch form. It is FDA approved, just not for AD; but the patch is the same damn med, just different delivery! It is certainly a lot safer to use than Parnate. (You can order it over the Net, from IAS, though I am not recommending this as it is not technically legal without a prescription; worse case, it gets intercepted and you're out $30.) However, Parnate is known to be the most affective for treatment-resistant, non-reactive depression.

You need to be extremely careful with Parnate, and really learn the dietary restrictions. I would recommend starting with the most restrictive diet, which means NO cheese, sausage, wine, or spirits, among many other food restrictions, and only canned or bottled beer. Hope you can contend with that.

You first may wish to try OTC Rhodiola Rosea. It's dirt cheap and an affective MAO-iB, like Deprenyl, thus no dietary restrictions. I find it activating, with some benefit to libido and sexual function. In spite of being OTC, it packs a punch at a higher dose. I think you may be interested after you read this. Nature's Way is the brand I used, and found it effective and cheap. Don't take it after early afternoon, or it may keep you awake.

http://www.organicfoodee.com/herbs/rhodiolarosea.html

On a final note, I would like to reinforce that an activating drug may be exactly what your adrenals DONT need. It could tap them out further. I would recommend a salivary stress test from DIAGNOS-TECH. $99 well spent. Also, I think you need a full thyroid work up. Low thyroid and impaired adrenals reduce testosterone and, in turn, libido.

Good luck and health,
j

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by jinxie1

Here's what you want, my friend. http://meds.queensu.ca/~clpsych/orie...on%20Chart.pdf Note, I found this after typing the below, but I recall that this is the best summary of the ADs and their affects on the different neuro horomones that I could find.

My hunch is that you will get stronger dopamine action out of a dopamine agonist. But you will need a shrink that thinks outside the box, as it would be an off-label use. It sounds like your doc does not think out of the box.

I believe Parnate affects dopamine to a greater extent than Wellbutrin, which primarily works on norepinephrine. And if you have the pharmacy order the generic, it's dirt cheap. I have about 6 months worth of it in my house -- I wish I could give it to you, but alas I cant, particularly given its side effect profile. Note, it's extremely activating, unlike its sister MAOi. Like I said, Wellbutrin users often have positive sexual experiences on this med, and it is often precribed in subtherapeutic doses as an adjunct for this purpose -- anti-ED.

While amphetamine does increase dopamine significantly, it often makes getting wood and getting off a challenge. Though it can increase libido. Think cocaine.

I dont understand why your doc will not prescribe Deprenyl. Perhaps because it is not an AD according to the PDR, even though it is in patch form. It is FDA approved, just not for AD; but the patch is the same damn med, just different delivery! It is certainly a lot safer to use than Parnate. (You can order it over the Net, from IAS, though I am not recommending this as it is not technically legal without a prescription; worse case, it gets intercepted and you're out $30.) However, Parnate is known to be the most affective for treatment-resistant, non-reactive depression.

You need to be extremely careful with Parnate, and really learn the dietary restrictions. I would recommend starting with the most restrictive diet, which means NO cheese, sausage, wine, or spirits, among many other food restrictions, and only canned or bottled beer. Hope you can contend with that.

You first may wish to try OTC Rhodiola Rosea. It's dirt cheap and an affective MAO-iB, like Deprenyl, thus no dietary restrictions. I find it activating, with some benefit to libido and sexual function. In spite of being OTC, it packs a punch at a higher dose. I think you may be interested after you read this. Nature's Way is the brand I used, and found it effective and cheap. Don't take it after early afternoon, or it may keep you awake.

http://www.organicfoodee.com/herbs/rhodiolarosea.html

On a final note, I would like to reinforce that an activating drug may be exactly what your adrenals DONT need. It could tap them out further. I would recommend a salivary stress test from DIAGNOS-TECH. $99 well spent. Also, I think you need a full thyroid work up. Low thyroid and impaired adrenals reduce testosterone and, in turn, libido.

Good luck and health,
j

Would like to pick you brains;

Look at attachment #4 on my first post here:
JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy

(also page #1 (box with Neurotransmitter Metabolites)

It shows Catecholamine and Serotonin Metabolism pathways.
It shows what elements are in need to do it efficiently, (names within green circles).

This Metabolic Analysis Profile from Genova Diagnostics
plus their
GDX Elemental Analysis, Packed Erythrocytes
GDX Elemental Analysis, Packed Erythrocytes

should give a good basis to figure out where hi needs help.

Elemental analysis wouls indicate functional deficiency of some of the elements.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Better yet would be to do more complete set of testing.
This test reports come with recomendation
supplement name and daily dose:
================================================== ================================================
============================================
Ask your doc to do Genova Diagnostic testing.
These tests:

NutriEval (saliva, urine, blood)
GDX NutrEval Profile

EstroEssence (first morning urine)
Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence

possibly also

Comprehensive Detoxification profile
and
EstroGenomics
============================================
Also spend 2x $20 and study how to read and apply top two tests.
PROLibraries.com - Online Professional Education
-----------------------------------------------------------
NutrEval discussed
EW04 - NUTRITIONAL EVALUATION: Understanding Your Patient's Supplement Needs
A4M :: Conference Library
A4M :: Conference Library
Conference: A4M Las Vegas 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway, MD
December 7, 2006 6:00 pm - 9:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Estroessence discussed:

GS02m - Estrogen Metabolism: Modifying Risk in Clinical Practice
Conference: A4M Orlando 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway MD
Length: 31m 07s - 66 Slides
April 9, 2006 5:00 pm - 5:40 pm
--------------------------------------------------

[loopy107]

Originally Posted by jinxie1

Here's what you want, my friend. http://meds.queensu.ca/~clpsych/orie...on%20Chart.pdf Note, I found this after typing the below, but I recall that this is the best summary of the ADs and their affects on the different neuro horomones that I could find.

My hunch is that you will get stronger dopamine action out of a dopamine agonist. But you will need a shrink that thinks outside the box, as it would be an off-label use. It sounds like your doc does not think out of the box.

I believe Parnate affects dopamine to a greater extent than Wellbutrin, which primarily works on norepinephrine. And if you have the pharmacy order the generic, it's dirt cheap. I have about 6 months worth of it in my house -- I wish I could give it to you, but alas I cant, particularly given its side effect profile. Note, it's extremely activating, unlike its sister MAOi. Like I said, Wellbutrin users often have positive sexual experiences on this med, and it is often precribed in subtherapeutic doses as an adjunct for this purpose -- anti-ED.

While amphetamine does increase dopamine significantly, it often makes getting wood and getting off a challenge. Though it can increase libido. Think cocaine.

I dont understand why your doc will not prescribe Deprenyl. Perhaps because it is not an AD according to the PDR, even though it is in patch form. It is FDA approved, just not for AD; but the patch is the same damn med, just different delivery! It is certainly a lot safer to use than Parnate. (You can order it over the Net, from IAS, though I am not recommending this as it is not technically legal without a prescription; worse case, it gets intercepted and you're out $30.) However, Parnate is known to be the most affective for treatment-resistant, non-reactive depression.

You need to be extremely careful with Parnate, and really learn the dietary restrictions. I would recommend starting with the most restrictive diet, which means NO cheese, sausage, wine, or spirits, among many other food restrictions, and only canned or bottled beer. Hope you can contend with that.

You first may wish to try OTC Rhodiola Rosea. It's dirt cheap and an affective MAO-iB, like Deprenyl, thus no dietary restrictions. I find it activating, with some benefit to libido and sexual function. In spite of being OTC, it packs a punch at a higher dose. I think you may be interested after you read this. Nature's Way is the brand I used, and found it effective and cheap. Don't take it after early afternoon, or it may keep you awake.

http://www.organicfoodee.com/herbs/rhodiolarosea.html

On a final note, I would like to reinforce that an activating drug may be exactly what your adrenals DONT need. It could tap them out further. I would recommend a salivary stress test from DIAGNOS-TECH. $99 well spent. Also, I think you need a full thyroid work up. Low thyroid and impaired adrenals reduce testosterone and, in turn, libido.

Good luck and health,
j

I've heard dopamine agonist work well but for only a short period of time. I hear that they lose their effectiveness after a couple of months. Is there any truth to this?

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Originally Posted by loopy107

I've heard dopamine agonist work well but for only a short period of time. I hear that they lose their effectiveness after a couple of months. Is there any truth to this?

Yes, a lot of truth to this.

Parnate is probably the best antidepressant hands down. Nardil may be better with those that have social phobia. Unlike many other antidepressants Parnate is considered more of a mood brightener. It not only gets you out of the depths of depression better than any other AD, it also gives you a joy for life rather than a numbing of emotions like many SSRI's do. It also increases dopamine quite effectively. Many report an increased sex drive especially at lower dosages 30-40mg a day.

I was on Parnate for a number of months but had to discontinue due to low blood sugar problems. MAOi's can lower blood sugar with some people, and since I've had long standing issues with hypoglycemia it tended to exacerbate this issue.

If you were to choose between Selegiline and Parnate I'd choose Parnate. Parnate has a history of 50 + years as an AD and is much more proven. Even though Selegiline is a "sexy" drug, it never seems to pan out as well as people hoped. Increased anxiety is a problem for many people.

You can read many case reports of people's experience with it on the psychobabble antidepressant forum.

Psycho-Babble

[loopy107]

Originally Posted by Dopamineloveaffair

Yes, a lot of truth to this.

Parnate is probably the best antidepressant hands down. Nardil may be better with those that have social phobia. Unlike many other antidepressants Parnate is considered more of a mood brightener. It not only gets you out of the depths of depression better than any other AD, it also gives you a joy for life rather than a numbing of emotions like many SSRI's do. It also increases dopamine quite effectively. Many report an increased sex drive especially at lower dosages 30-40mg a day.

I was on Parnate for a number of months but had to discontinue due to low blood sugar problems. MAOi's can lower blood sugar with some people, and since I've had long standing issues with hypoglycemia it tended to exacerbate this issue.

If you were to choose between Selegiline and Parnate I'd choose Parnate. Parnate has a history of 50 + years as an AD and is much more proven. Even though Selegiline is a "sexy" drug, it never seems to pan out as well as people hoped. Increased anxiety is a problem for many people.

You can read many case reports of people's experience with it on the psychobabble antidepressant forum.

Psycho-Babble

The only reason I refused to take parnate is because I don't have deep depression and I dont want to be restricted to not eating a lot of foods. It 's too much of a commitment to deal the long list of foods that I cant eat. I just cant feel emotions and have no real sexual desire. Selegiline patch is to expensive and I cant get the pills. I just need something that can really increase my dopamine and help me feel love emotion,focus and desire.

The pshychiatrist wants to see me next week, but I dont know what medicine I should run bye him to see if he will let me take it. dopamine agonist loose effectiveness, so that out of the question. Selegiline patch is to expensive and parnate restricts from eating anything(I dont have deep depression as well).

Do you think riddalin will help? I hear i can increase your dopamine a lot!

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Originally Posted by loopy107

The only reason I refused to take parnate is because I don't have deep depression and I dont want to be restricted to not eating a lot of foods. It 's too much of a commitment to deal the long list of foods that I cant eat. I just cant feel emotions and have no real sexual desire. Selegiline patch is to expensive and I cant get the pills. I just need something that can really increase my dopamine and help me feel love emotion,focus and desire.

The pshychiatrist wants to see me next week, but I dont know what medicine I should run bye him to see if he will let me take it. dopamine agonist loose effectiveness, so that out of the question. Selegiline patch is to expensive and parnate restricts from eating anything(I dont have deep depression as well).

Do you think riddalin will help? I hear i can increase your dopamine a lot!

You don't have to have a deep depression in order to take Parnate. It just means it's more effective than many other ADs.

I found with parnate I could eat anything I wanted. I was very careful about it in the beginning, and had a calcium channel blocker on me at all times in case of a mishap.

Being careful about what you eat is a small price for lifted depression and feeling love. Depression and not feeling love go hand in hand. It's not all dopamine. I wouldn't get hung up on it.

I doubt Ritalin or Adderall would be very effective.