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Old 06-21-2004, 10:13 AM
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Default TRT: A Recipe for Success

Attached below.
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Old 06-26-2004, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWALE
Attached below.
Here it is - sorry for the delay.
Attached Files
File Type: doc TRT.doc (94.0 KB, 1452 views)
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Old 07-12-2004, 02:56 PM
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A very good read...........I passed this on to a friend of mine that is a M.D.
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Old 07-22-2005, 05:16 PM
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I can't open that link. Tried several times
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Old 07-22-2005, 07:01 PM
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You need to open it in you MS word.
Phil
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Old 11-27-2005, 06:52 PM
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Most impressive read.
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:35 AM
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Hi SWALE,

What is the average dose of testosterone gel/cream and the average dose of depot-testosterone do you give an approximately 170 pound man?

Thanks.
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Old 12-21-2005, 11:18 AM
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Unfortunately, there is no "average". Everyone is different, as there is no way to tell up front what a patient will ultimately need to be tuned up properly.

Having said that, probably most of my patients (irrespective of body weight) are "around" 100mg of test cyp per week. As for the transdermals, I start them on 5mg, and may go as high as 10mg per day before switching to test cyp. I hope this helps.

Last edited by SWALE : 12-21-2005 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:09 AM
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Why switch to from transdermals to depo-testosterone - particularly at 10 mg per day, when it is possible to get a 10% testosterone cream compounded (rather than the commercial 1% gels)? For example, the Women's International Pharmacy can compound a 10% micronized testosterone non-alcoholic gel or cream for less than $20/month. They can make up to a 20% cream but told me it would be too granular. Testocreme.com is another compounded testosterone cream for about $15/month. With a 10% cream, you don't have to use a large area of skin. It is thus very convenient to use.

Again, thank you for your information and protocol. It's great.

Interestingly, many TRT practitioners I speak to don't even consider HCG supplementation to avoid testicular atrophy. I don't think they ask their male patients if testicular size is important - even if only for vanity's sake.
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:28 AM
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The best answer I can give is that treatment is very patient specific. I am not comfortable with administering 200mg of T (delivering 20mg to the bloodstream), even though many are recommending same. The DHT boost (which few even think to assay) can be troublesome. So can estrogenic conversion. Still, I do like to try a gel first, IF that is what the patient and I decide together.

You usually cannot get T levels high enough on a transdermal for some men. Or it is a lifestyle decision (convenience, risk of accidental transfer, etc).

BTW, I have seen testosterone frost produced by 10% creams/gels, too. I would never go with a 20% mix. My favorite is 5%.

Regular, low-dose HCG supplementation has benefits beyond the aesthetic consideration of testicular size.

What a fascinating topic!
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Old 12-24-2005, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWALE
BTW, I have seen testosterone frost produced by 10% creams/gels, too. I would never go with a 20% mix. My favorite is 5%.

Regular, low-dose HCG supplementation has benefits beyond the aesthetic consideration of testicular size.
Thank you for your answer. I highly appreciate it.

What do you mean by "testosterone frost"?

Hmmm.

Benefits of HCG supplementation:
1. Aesthetic maintenance of testicular size
2. Maintaining activity of testicular Leydig cells - promoting natural testosterone production - preventing primary hypogonadism
3. (in reading some of the posts): (somehow) improving sex drive greatly (perhaps more so than just with testosterone replacement

What are the other benefits, I'd be interested to know?
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marianco
What are the other benefits, I'd be interested to know?
Dr. M,

Another benefit of small amounts of hCG, when given in conjunction with testosterone, seems to be an increased sense of well being.

(Edited for clarity.)

Last edited by earthdog : 12-27-2005 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 12-26-2005, 02:20 PM
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"testosterone frost" is a white residue on the skin. Wasteful, and highly increases the risk of accidental transfer.

Isn't my "HCG Update" paper posted here somewhere?
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Old 12-26-2005, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWALE
"testosterone frost" is a white residue on the skin. Wasteful, and highly increases the risk of accidental transfer.

Isn't my "HCG Update" paper posted here somewhere?
The only place I find it is here at your site.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/
We need HeadDr. to make it a sticky.
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Old 12-26-2005, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWALE
If someone wants to take care of it, that will be fine with me.
I just read it on your site and it was a good read. Thanks for posting that.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: TRT: A Recipe for Success

I couldn't open that site either until I disabled my Zone Alarm then it opened. Try that and see if you can open it. Phil I see you are all
over the place Roy
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: TRT: A Recipe for Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1923
I couldn't open that site either until I disabled my Zone Alarm then it opened. Try that and see if you can open it. Phil I see you are all
over the place Roy
Good to see you here Roy you should do a post about your self.
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: TRT: A Recipe for Success

here it is.
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: TRT: A Recipe for Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadDoc
here it is.
Thanks for making it a sticky. If anything, this should be a repository for various recipes for TRT.
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Old 05-20-2006, 09:32 PM
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Default Good T but still no Libido = other factors involved.

Here's an example, where a person has good testosterone levels but still no libido, while on Depo-Testosterone as the only treatment:

To help in understanding the labs, I did some conversions to U.S. units.

Total Cholesterol: 3.19nmol/L (3.57-5.20) = LOW
Trig: 0.8nmol/L (0.0-2.3) = LOW NORMAL

TSH: 1.33uIU/ml (0.27-4.2) = LOW NORMAL
T3: 1.7 nmol/l(1.3-3.1) = LOW NORMAL
T4: 69nmol/l (63-151) = LOW NORMAL

E2: 62pmol/L (26-165) = 16.9 pg/ml = LOW NORMAL

Progesterone: 2.21nmol/l (<0.95) = 0.69 ng/ml = LOW NORMAL
Cortisol: 331nmol/l (221-690) = 12.0 mcg/dl = LOW NORMAL

Total Test: 21.8 (5.2-22) = HIGH NORMAL
Free Test: 175pmol/l (45-149) = HIGH
SHBG: 7.23nmol/l (13-71) = LOW
DHT: 2.58nmol/l (1.13-4.13) = NORMAL


The current lab panel is missing a lot of information, but some thoughts that come to mind include:

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN (SHBG) has many functions. A very important function is to bind to its own receptors on cells to transmit signals to the cell depending on whether or not estrogen or testosterone is bound to it. A speculated result of such signals is to increase the production of estrogen or testosterone receptors on the cell - making the cell more sensitive to estrogen or testosterone. Whether or not it is important for libido is speculative, but I would not doubt that it plays a role. A second function is to prolong the life of circulating testosterone, DHT, and estrogens. Testosterone, otherwise, would last only 10-100 minutes. Testosterone bound to SHBG is our body's natural depo-testosterone.

SHBG is produced by the liver in response to estrogen and thyroid hormone. SHBG production is inhibited by testosterone, DHEA, DHT, other androgens, insulin, and growth hormone. When thyroid is low or estrogen is low, SHBG may be low. When free testosterone (and other androgens), DHEA, insulin (such as during insulin resistance or diabetes type 2) or growth hormone is too high, then SHBG may be low. One way of looking at it is that it is a balancing act in the body to prevent excessive levels of anabolic hormones.

THYROID HORMONE when at optimal levels for the person play a role in maintaining libido. Thyroid hormone has mood elevating effects, allows energy production needed for sex, increase sperm production, and increases steroid hormone production (e.g. testosterone) in the testes. There are thyroid hormone receptors in the cells of the testes.

THYROID RELEASING HORMONE: Interestingly, in addition to the hypothalamus of the brain, the testes also release Thyroid Releasing Hormone (TRH). No one has yet explored this idea in the literature, but TRH can go to the pituitary gland and cause it to release Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH), which then causes the thyroid gland to release thyroid hormone.

ADRENAL FATIGUE can stop libido. Lab test findings may include low to low normal progesterone, low to low normal DHEA, low normal cortisol, low testosterone (in perimenopausal women), among other findings discussed in the adrenal thread. Mood swings, irritability, anxiety, lack of energy, feeling burnt out, lack of enthusiasm, lack of libido, etc., are some symptoms. Adrenal fatigue can hide the presence of insulin resistance since low cortisol levels lead to low production of blood glucose, which then lowers blood levels of insulin.

DHEA from the adrenal glands plays a prominent role in reducing SHBG so that more testosterone can be freed to work. When adrenal fatigue is present, SHBG can be high despite normal estrogen, thyroid hormone levels, and testosterone levels because DHEA is low. This can result in low free testosterone and impaired libido.

PROGESTERONE plays a role in libido. It has anxiolytic, mood stabilizing, and antidepressant effects. It allows thyroid hormone to function. It increases neurotransmitter levels in the brain including dopamine. It is the precursor for both cortisol and testosterone. It is generally reduced in level when adrenal fatigue is present. Excessive progesterone, however, can inhibit libido. Excessive progesterone can also overly increase the production of estrogen receptors - resulting in gynecomastia, among other things (such as bleeding in menopausal women). Generally, I prefer at least mid-range values for progesterone in patients.

ESTRADIOL (E2) is the most potent natural estrogen. The value obtained by measuring Estradiol alone (i.e. not obtaining fractionated estrogens) is actually a measure of total estrogens since it varies depending not only on the presence of estradiol but the other estrogens. As such, getting an E2 alone gives some measure of total estrogens.

Estrogen helps determine sexual aggression. To me, this means libido. Thus when estrogen (e.g. estradiol) is too low, there is no libido.

When estrogen is too high, there is also reduced or no libido. One rationale is that estrogen competes with thyroid hormone for thyroid hormone receptors. Progesterone helps prevent this. But if estrogen is too high, estrogen will end up blocking thyroid hormone function - including thyroid hormone's role in promoting libido. Another rationale is that estrogen is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. It increases primarily serotonin and norepinephrine. At too high a level, these can inhibit libido.

Some clinicians expressed preference for an estradiol of around 32 pg/ml for optimal libido in men. However, this will depend on all the factors that determine libido. Some need more. Some need less.

When estradiol is low, the use of an aromatase enzyme such as Arimidex is not the first thing that I would do to solve the problem of lack of libido.

HOT FLASHES are a symptom of ESTROGEN WITHDRAWAL. When estrogen level is reduced, one gets hot flashes.

AROMATASE ENZYME: Estradiol is produced by the aromatase enzyme from Testosterone.

LUTEINIZING HORMONE (LH): What controls the production of aromatase? Among other things, LUTEINIZING HORMONE increases the production of aromatase enzyme. When Free testosterone and DHT are high enough, the release of Luteinizing Hormone from the brain is reduced. This may lead to reduced production of aromatase and thus estrogen production. LH also helps increase the production of the side cleavage enzyme that starts the first step in converting cholesterol to the steroid hormones.

LOW CHOLESTEROL: indicates that a person may have difficulty in producing steroid hormones.

HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN (HCG) is an analog to LH, FSH, and THYROID HORMONE.