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Old 10-29-2006, 05:23 PM
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Default two interesting things ve learnt

i never used to understand why my e2 was so high when i was off gels, ie natural hypergonadal. but from another post, someone explained that excess lh and fsh converts very quickly to estrogen, hence why when i was off trt my e2 was higher than when i was on it.

the second point, i could never understand why my dht was so high, but i had no sex drive. i used to think that it was because e2 was too high, but actually i believe the reverse is true, and that my gels cause dht conversion, and suppress e2 conversion, so im actually lacking e2 and may try rubbing some test on my stomach to see what happens

cheers
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Old 10-29-2006, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

Intresting, because my LH is 6 and FSH 11, and I am getting my E2 levels back today.
You should really consider using HCG with your T.
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Old 10-29-2006, 06:10 PM
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Default DHT and E2

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterpp
i never used to understand why my e2 was so high when i was off gels, ie natural hypergonadal. but from another post, someone explained that excess lh and fsh converts very quickly to estrogen, hence why when i was off trt my e2 was higher than when i was on it.

the second point, i could never understand why my dht was so high, but i had no sex drive. i used to think that it was because e2 was too high, but actually i believe the reverse is true, and that my gels cause dht conversion, and suppress e2 conversion, so im actually lacking e2 and may try rubbing some test on my stomach to see what happens

cheers
Estradiol is made from testosterone via aromatase enzyme.

Luteinizing hormone increases testicular testosterone production.

Luteinizing hormone also increases aromatase enzyme production, leading to a converstion of testosterone to Estradiol.

Estradiol is as much as 10,000 times more potent than testosterone in its effects. It is a fine balance that needs to be done at small levels, to maintain function with estradiol in men. Too little or too much will impair functioning.

The brain measures how much testosterone (with the help of progesterone) and estradiol to determine how much Luteinizing hormone to produce. This is the negative feedback mechanism. If there is too much testosterone and estradiol together, then LH production is lowered.

Dihydrotestosterone is made from testosterone via the alpha-reductase enzyme.

Dihydrotestosterone is about 7 times more potent than testosterone at testosterone receptors (except in muscle - which is why dihydrotestosterone is not anabolic).

Since Dihydrotestosterone is more potent than testosterone, it can make the brain think there is enough testosterone so that it reduces LH production, leading to a reduction in testosterone production, and hence estradiol production.

Dihydrotestosterone may inhibit the aromatase enzyme - but I am not sure of this point - to reduce estradiol conversion from testosterone.

Dihydrotestosterone can do some things the opposite of testosterone. For example, it can increase abdominal fat - rather than reduce abdominal fat as testosterone does. It can cause scalp hair loss as opposed to hair growth as testosterone can. Dihydrotestosterone can cause insulin resistance as opposed to reducing insulin resistance.

Dihydrotestosterone can either improve function or impair function - it can be a good hormone or bad hormone. Because of this dual nature of DHT, I prefer to minimize its production to avoid negative side effects.

Having a lot of body hair indicates there is a lot of alpha-reductase in the skin. DHT does promote body hair growth (not scalp hair growth).

If a reduction in DHT production is desired, then testosterone injections or pellets are the preferred route of administration.

If DHT acts as a good hormone, then transdermal gels or creams can be used. It is up to the physician and patien to decide if this is happening.
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Old 10-30-2006, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: DHT and E2

[quote=marianco]
Dihydrotestosterone can do some things the opposite of testosterone. For example, it can increase abdominal fat - rather than reduce abdominal fat as testosterone does.QUOTE]

Dr M, do you mean retroperitoneal fat or subcutaneous abdominal fat?
Thanks.
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Old 10-31-2006, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

Very good posting Marianco.
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Old 10-31-2006, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

is there anything which will prevent the conversion of testosterone (in my case probs 125mg of enanthate per week) to both e2 and DHT, in one swoop

does such a thing exist.
also what do people think of saw palmetto
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterpp
is there anything which will prevent the conversion of testosterone (in my case probs 125mg of enanthate per week) to both e2 and DHT, in one swoop

does such a thing exist.
also what do people think of saw palmetto
Zinc, mushroom extract and grape seed extract are effective non-drug aromatase inhibitors. Saw palmetto will lower DHT in the prostate, but not in the hair follicles (it has no effect on type 1 alpha reductase). Green tea extract has been shown to be a potent inhibitor of type 1alpha reductase. Methanolic (not ethanolic) extracts of nettle root inhibits both 5 alpha reductase and aromatase. Pygeum extract and ginkgo biloba are mild 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. Vitamin B2(riboflavin) is a very effective 5 alpha reductase inhibitor in physiological achieveable concentrations.
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

awesome response

thank you
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

The mushroom extract specifically is probably Agaricus blazei. Others have not been evaluated that I know of.
Is there a commercial source for methanolic extract of Nettle root?
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: two interesting things ve learnt

And the bet is only on T?
I guess more DHT with gels?
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