Virilization from HRT - MESO-Rx

bassack · #1 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 10:54 AM

I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with virilization after HRT. Things like growth of new and thickened body and face hair, deepening of the voice, better musculature, thickening of the bones, and quality or quantity of ejaculate.

I'm more interested in hearing if people experienced any of these things to an extent greater than they ever had prior to HRT, as opposed to people who restored those virilization effects that had been diminished due to decreased hormone levels.

After a lifetime of low testosterone levels can I expect to alter my body in my mid 40's?

guiman · #2 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 03:08 PM

Hey Bassack,

I have been on HRT for almost 22 months now. I have been on 10g of Androgel but last month changed to 10g of Testim. Both gels do not get me in the upper one third of the range and that has been disappointing. My test levels have gone up from 236 to 422, but overall it looks like I have an absorption problem with the gel. So, next month I am going on shots and using Dr Crisler's protocol when I see my endo. I definitely have gained muscle defintion and a very slight increase in body hair since I have been on the gel. My strength level has also increased somewhat. My doctor told me that going on shots I would see further improvement in muscle definition.

Hope this helps, Guiman

cpeil2 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 03:30 PM

I don't know about bone density . . . that has to be tested. But otherwise, yes, I did notice additional body hair, voice became slighly deeper, beard became more wiry, body fat is easier to control and muscles respond more readily to exercise.

Weatherlite · #4 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 07:54 PM

I had low T my whole life and only started TRT at 32 y/o. A lot of things went up a little bit but the most noticeable is the hair. WOW do I have hair now! I have hair in places I don't want it! I used to be able to go without shaving for at least a day...now I can't. So yes, virilization will occur if you haven't already experienced it.

jawbone · #5 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 10:20 PM

more hair where I dont want it and less where I do.

Matt Muscle · #6 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 04:39 AM

Yes... i got more hair on my body..my chest is hairy like my brothers now... plus i got hair on my back..which i didnt want! Plus the hair is starting to thin on my scalp.. just like my bro's as well (dam i thought i had escaped that one!)
Muscle mass has been much easier to maintain with training... my body weight went from around 84kg to 94kgs... and thats not fat!
Ejaculate quantaties..well that dropped to almost nothing on just testosterone... but the addition of hCG has helped in that department... thankgod!..it was embarrassing

**HeadDoc** · #7 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassack

I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with virilization after HRT. Things like growth of new and thickened body and face hair, deepening of the voice, better musculature, thickening of the bones, and quality or quantity of ejaculate.

I'm more interested in hearing if people experienced any of these things to an extent greater than they ever had prior to HRT, as opposed to people who restored those virilization effects that had been diminished due to decreased hormone levels.

After a lifetime of low testosterone levels can I expect to alter my body in my mid 40's?

where are you in this process? Have you taken the leap yet?

Axl · #8 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weatherlite

I had low T my whole life and only started TRT at 32 y/o. A lot of things went up a little bit but the most noticeable is the hair. WOW do I have hair now! I have hair in places I don't want it! I used to be able to go without shaving for at least a day...now I can't. So yes, virilization will occur if you haven't already experienced it.

Hey WL are you on shots? For how long have you been doing this? I have had low T all my life too.
I am on T shots for about 7 months now (I'm 31), and I haven't seen any improvement in the "hair department". Muscle tone is only very slightly better (only I seem to notice it, nobody in my neighboorhood has noticed that one). I can agree that my body fat is a little bit easier to control, but i'm still catabolic, meaning that I still tend to lose muscle very easily. I have gone from 69kg to 64kg, but I am still at 20% bodyfat despite a rigoroud diet. On the other hand, my depression-like feeling have improved, my fatigue is gone and I am able to have a normal life in that department. OVerall, I am not complaining but I alm still waiting to see some improvement on the physical side...

Cryptochid · #9 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 07:14 PM

Bassack
Remembering cryptorchidism (a genetic abnormality) impedes growth and development, look forward to completing the incompete for yourself

I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with virilization after HRT. Things like growth of new and thickened body and face hair (yes, particulary thighs, backside & fascial, but no chest hair. Keep in mind that cryptorchidism is a genetic mutation of the Ins3 gene effecting the adrenals),
http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/3/289
deepening of the voice, better musculature (yes, loss of bodyfat, development of muscle), thickening of the bones (better pain management in the long bones, particularly cartlidge on the growth plates), and quality or quantity of ejaculate.(yes, increased volume, unsure of quality)

I'm more interested in hearing if people experienced any of these things to an extent greater than they ever had prior to HRT, as opposed to people who restored those virilization effects that had been diminished due to decreased hormone levels.
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/cmt/links/lindex.html?cat_id=4652&cat_name=Testosterone%20Replacement%20Therapy

After a lifetime of low testosterone levels can I expect to alter my body in my mid 40's? (remember that not any one form of trt may hold the answer. Due to our "incommon" history you will need to try all forms to see which works best for you.)

Weatherlite · #10 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 09:23 PM

Axl, yes I use shots. I started out on gels but I had an adverse reaction to them. No real advancement with gels.

Now with cyp I've seen lots of changes...but I have been kept at the same dose for a consistent period. You on the other hand have had your levels go supraphysiological and down to below good during your two week timing. I'm willing to bet that after several months on your new 10 day timing you will see a difference. It will be subtle and slow to appear but gradually it will come. Give it time.

bassack · #11 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 11:56 PM

Thank you all for your replies.

HeadDoc, I'm meeting with my Dr. on October 27 to begin HCG.

I believe he's going to provide me with my first supply and teach me how to inject myself. I want to try HCG alone first to see if that has any effect on "completing" my puberty. Any recommendations on dosage and frequency? FYI, I'm 6'2" and weigh 255 lbs., very little of which is muscle. Here's the post where I described myself.

I just started working out with a trainer for 30 minutes 3 x / week. The week I was on Clomid (from two weeks ago until one week ago) I felt that my recovery was better than the four or five other times in my life that I started and stopped a workout regimen. Maybe it was all in my head, or maybe the rise in testosterone that the Clomid provided actually had the effect of quicker recovery. I hope it was the latter and that this is just one of many of the benefits that I'll enjoy on HRT.

dano79 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 03:03 AM

Aren't hair issues mostly a genetic issue with testosterone having an influence. I would assume that If you are not predisposed to be hairy, you are not going to be hairy if your testosterone is high from HRT. I'm not particulary hairy, but neither is anybody else in my family. Also, when I was the gels, I did not notice any change in hair loss. My testosterone levels did not go up. but my DHT levels might have since it was the gels.

Now that I'm on injections, that may change things. But I'm not expecting too many changes. Am I correct in thinking this?

kidsxx5 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 10:02 AM

I am using 250iu every other day and no other forms of TRT. My doc originally had me on 1000iu every other day but I felt that was too much. After a few weeks I was having major anxiety attacks and hot flashes. I think that amount drove up my E2.

Dano, I think you are right on the genetic issue. Otherwise all men with normal T levels would be hairy and that's not the case. With my T levels up I have about the same level of hairyness as my brother but no more is croping up.

Axl · #14 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidsxx5

I am using 250iu every other day and no other forms of TRT. My doc originally had me on 1000iu every other day but I felt that was too much. After a few weeks I was having major anxiety attacks and hot flashes. I think that amount drove up my E2.

Dano, I think you are right on the genetic issue. Otherwise all men with normal T levels would be hairy and that's not the case. With my T levels up I have about the same level of hairyness as my brother but no more is croping up.

Kidsxx5: I hope you are wrong about the dosage you are using, man. It seems to be too high. How many mgs of T is 100IU in your case??

I agree with you when you say that not all normal men have a lot of hair. But you know: virilisation has more aspects than hair alone. I still have skinny arms and legs like young teenagers. And yes: you can train muscles once the T is there. BUT: that still leaves me with those extremely skinny wrists, fingers, and ankles. My hands look like "girlie-hands". They have extremely small joints without muscle. I did some years of rockclimbing to try to train them, but it didn't work... Those things get bigger due to hormonal development, not training. So that's also a thing I am looking for when talking about virilisation... It's about looking (and sounding) like a man, not just looking like a teenager with bodyhair...

bassack · #15 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 10:37 AM

Axl, not to speak for him, but I think kidsxx5 was talking about his dose of HCG.

I think that I'm going to ask to start with 500IU every other day and then adjust. Any thoughts on how soon after beginning the therapy I should have my first blood test? Shoul it just be based on how I feel?

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