Who Has Actually Recovered?

[KidCapriB]

I posted this once before, but I believe it's important for many people on this board to have a realistic view about recovery. I think if people who actually have recovered come forward and maybe share their story it could definately boost the confidence of many of the individuals on this board. It's important to have hope, and actual people coming forward to reinforce that hope within everyone here would definately be beneficial. It's very depressing coming to this board due to the fact I hear about so many people who try to recover their hypogonadism to always fall short. I'm almost at the point where I try to avoid this board because of the negativity. At times I do question if anyone does indeed get better from this condition, and it's a hard thing to think of. So finally I ask, who has "cured" their hypogonadism and is off medication functioning normally?




If there is no one I'd ask the mods to maybe delete this post so it doens't crush anyones hope.

[Megazoid]

This is a good post KidCapri, i really hope some people come forward too. I guess you are asking about HPTA recovery, but in theory it could be any kind of recovery from either being part primary to steriod abuse, let's hope some people come forward.

[BigAk]

Originally Posted by KidCapriB

I posted this once before, but I believe it's important for many people on this board to have a realistic view about recovery. I think if people who actually have recovered come forward and maybe share their story it could definately boost the confidence of many of the individuals on this board. It's important to have hope, and actual people coming forward to reinforce that hope within everyone here would definately be beneficial. It's very depressing coming to this board due to the fact I hear about so many people who try to recover their hypogonadism to always fall short. I'm almost at the point where I try to avoid this board because of the negativity. At times I do question if anyone does indeed get better from this condition, and it's a hard thing to think of. So finally I ask, who has "cured" their hypogonadism and is off medication functioning normally?




If there is no one I'd ask the mods to maybe delete this post so it doens't crush anyones hope.

Yes... I know of someone who recovered their HPTA... It's YOU Kid... However, I don't believe you've recovered your head bro... I don't see the negativity you're talking about from any of the other guys on here except from you. I think everyone is doing relatively well in their efforts to recover, and when you bare in mind that this recovery deal is not an overnight success, you'll see that we're all doing pretty well. We all go through ups and downs during this process but the big picture is that we're all recovering slowly but surely.

You're to the point of not coming to this board again due to negativity. To tell you the truth, I avoid reading your posts only; while I find positiveness in everything else I read. Lemme prove it to you. Do a search on all your posts and threads. they have titles like:

How Can My Levels Be Low But I Can Grow A Beard?
I Can't Take It Anymore When Will It End?
Newest Test Results In...Very Strange

Heck.... These titles alone are enough cause to shut down one's HPTA.

Then the only post you write when your test results are in the close to mid range, you're still not happy. Vast majority of the populations of males live very happily with levels at 399 without even knowing it. Have you ever stopped and thought that maybe your issues extend beyond just testosterone levels?? There is far more to libido and feeling good than just testosterone levels.

Finally to answer your question; On the behalf of all the guys on this board, I come forward and say; Yes... We're all recovering... and this is not just in my head.

Peace....

[zumper]

And finally are not everything numbers.
Numbers are symbols and symbols have been created by people thus is not pure reality.
Reality is how you feel and function .

[Megazoid]

Couldn't agree with Zumper anymore on that last quote. It's not about dam lab reports but how we feel as people. Marianco himself said this. And in fairness to kid, some of his total t readings were coming back at 200 and lower. That is pretty dam low if you ask me! I am pretty sure some people have recovered though.

[Krembles]

Originally Posted by KidCapriB

I posted this once before, but I believe it's important for many people on this board to have a realistic view about recovery. I think if people who actually have recovered come forward and maybe share their story it could definately boost the confidence of many of the individuals on this board. It's important to have hope, and actual people coming forward to reinforce that hope within everyone here would definately be beneficial. It's very depressing coming to this board due to the fact I hear about so many people who try to recover their hypogonadism to always fall short. I'm almost at the point where I try to avoid this board because of the negativity. At times I do question if anyone does indeed get better from this condition, and it's a hard thing to think of. So finally I ask, who has "cured" their hypogonadism and is off medication functioning normally?


If there is no one I'd ask the mods to maybe delete this post so it doens't crush anyones hope.

YES, I have recovered and know many HRT people that have as well. It did not take that long
either. That is the main goal. I am 56 and my test levels were below 300 now over 600. Well,
that was a few months ago. I was taking 150 to 200mg test weekly, I was also taking GH.
I added Anvar off and on and a little Deca off and on. I watched my blood work and monitored
the effects of what I added of taperd off of. I think if you hae the bucks American made GH
is the best thing. Only you have to be perpared to go 6 months to a year. I will heal the thymus
and other organs that produce test. You have to get used to more test. You have to exercise and
diet correctly and take all kinds of vitimans. It's possible and I know people that have gotten
better gains in their natty (natural test) than myseld and they did not do GH either. They did
more exercise. Don't give up, there is a way to heal and become young. I am talking from
personal experience. I am not a THREAD PARROT talking thread trash. Please feel free to
PM me.

[Dano2718]

I'm with BigAK on this.

- I don't think "recovery" is a black or white thing. I got back to having high normal T levels while using the SERM's, but my libido and mood were not that great. So by the labs, I am recovered - and T levels are not the same thing as how you feel. So I am in the process of tapering off and WAITING, getting better month by month, not day by day. This takes time, and so one should have the discipline and patience to go through this for six months to a year before throwing in the towel. Kid, you sound discouraged, but just think what a great opportunity this is to work on managing what goes on in your head . We're all in this together.

[KidCapriB]

yes some of my posts are negative because i've been going through this probably the longest out of everyone. A little over 3 years at this point and I'm only 20 years old. Yes I have a few good test results here and there BUT they are always followed by a plethora of terrible ones. Also how is this board positive? Every "restart log" I see always ends with failure. This is a positive thread and can really mentally help those feeling discouraged about the condition. I urge those who have recovered to simply share their story or just confirm this

[KidCapriB]

bump...this is an important thread for the good of everyone here.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by KidCapriB

bump...this is an important thread for the good of everyone here.

One problem that I see, (and I am not a doctor),
people are told to watch Total testosterone levels and keep them in upper third for their age.
Good for some by accident, better then no Testosterone at all.
What body sees is FreeT and BioavailableT.
That is not the same thing, two reasons.
1. even when people ask for them on the blood test, usually in return they get garbage, see this
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/86/6/2903.pdf
Only Quest Diagnostic, that I know of, do them the right way, that is, calculate them from
TT, Albumin and SHBG that they get from the same blood draw.
See under Method: Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...one_LCMSMS.htm
ranges, (right two columns)
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/.../Table%201.pdf
Probably good idea to be close to the top but not exceed nether range or excessive E2 and DHT happens.

One can also do the calculation using:
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
note that that calculator is "old" since it is based on 1999 paper,
See disclaimer when pregnant or using transdermal DHT.

2. See also 2006 work:
Impact of recent biochemical findings on the determination
of free and bioavailable testosterone: evaluation and
proposal for clinical use (remove red dashes).
http---------://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/JLM.2006.050
If anyone is able to work this into more convenient calculator, please do and share.
But it is anoter reason for possibly missing the mark , even when trying to be careful.
--------------------------------------------------------
Check LabCorp, they do "Methodology
Ammonium sulfate precipitation; radioassay " rather than calculation.

http://labcorp.com/dos/index.html
under letter T, then
Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound

also here, good read but the do not calculate, they all kind of other things.
http://www.labcorp.com/cme/pdf/CME_T...ticle_1167.pdf

"Since men with hypogonadism often have high SHBG levels,
the measurement of free or bioavailable testosterone has
been advocated when total testosterone levels are normal in
men with symptoms of androgen deficiency."

Also:
"METHODS FOR MEASURING TESTOSTERONE
Many clinicians and laboratorians are confused about the most appropriate
method for “measuring testosterone status.”4,5,22 There
are numerous schools of thought as to which form of the hormone
should be measured and which analytical method provides the most accurate
assessment of biological activity. Since there is not a clear consensus
on this issue, it is important, at least, to understand the analytical basis for
the various methods available. Some of the different approaches currently
used for measuring testosterone status include (1) total testosterone, (2)
androgen index calculation, (3) free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis
or equilibrium ultrafiltration, (4) free testosterone by analog tracer immunoassay,
(5) bioavailable testosterone and (6) salivary testosterone.
Each is described below."
================================================== =====================
====================================
I am hoping that with testosterone level at levels driven by FreeT and BioAvailableT there should be much lesser problem with E2 and DHT management.
There is this thing, DIM we have to keep eye on, not only good for E2 but also for DHT.
I just started googling DIM, but found (not read yet),
http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm
he says that not all DIM's are the same, hmmm.

but LEF recomends one pill of this
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00855.html
for up to 160# body weight, I am 160# but recently increased to two pills and I think it works better.
Phil uses Indolplex and it works.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
but some other DIM products do not work.

[KidCapriB]

Bump...I'm sure someone has recovered and has a story to tell.

[pmgamer18]

I feel in my case having a bad Pituitary I was just getting enough message from my Pituitary to make enough cortisol to get by. I love walking for exercise and was a Race Walker in my late 30's even took lessens for this. I got dam sick 23 yrs. ago and it's been a long hard battle. The following is my story.

I don't feel my TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) was unsuccessful before TRT I suffered bad fatigue feeling of depression and worth. I got so dam bad I could not work and I was in my prime 40 yrs. old. I spent the first 5 yrs being treated for depression because not one Dr. bothered to test my hormones. Just think being on them dam meds all spaced out and not depressed.

When I started on TRT I felt good enough to get back to work but was still not right and was off on sick leave more then I was at work.

I now know it was not because of low t and my treatment but that they did not have it right as to why I was low in the first place.

So here I am 23 yrs. later just finding out why. I had a bad auto accident with a head injury. So not only are my T levels low but my Cortisol, DHEA, Thyroid, IGF-1 and Glucose all very low normal.

I could never talk to my friends or family about how I felt. Because to look at me I am a big rough looking guy and people would say you don't look sick. I knew when people say this it is the start of insults. Like just pick your self up and get on with your life.

Well 4 yrs. ago I joined a group for low Testosterone and the first thing I read about was High Estradiol "E2" in men and what it can do to your sex life. I had this tested got it down and got my sex life back. I am great full and mad that Dr.'s don't know enough to see this.

Last yr. I read Dr. John's web site www.allthingsmale.com and started on HCG this was to start to finding out what was wrong with me and why I never felt 100% on TRT. When I added HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) to my T shots at the time I was house bound with bad pain in my joints and muscles. My back was so bad that when I stood up to walk the pain was so bad I could hardy walk. At the time I was on Androgel and going to Testosterone shots fixed this adding HCG doubled my T levels and lead us to finding out I am Hypopituitary from a bad head injury. When I went on shots 26 months ago I was able to get out and walk for exercise and later ended up going to the gym and working out 3 days a week by last fall I had lost over 65 lbs. And was feeling on top of the world. Then winter came and my old friend Bronchitis hit me and I had the worst case of it ever it was so bad that today I am still trying to get back to where I was before winter. I feel this was the hardest my Adrenals ever took a hit, now not only do they not get a good enough message to make Cortisol but they are over worked do to the Bronchitis

I was back on my ass again house bound and thinking this is not going better but getting worse. I starting pushing my Dr. about my low normal levels of IGF-1 telling him I read if this is low that your immune system will be bad and maybe this is why I keep getting Bronchitis every yr. He just told me I am getting older and it was a bad winter for this.

I started ordering different tests and searching for answers to what the low normal levels mean. I came to a site about Pituitary Problems and in it it listed things that cause these problems and what labs show.
And a light went off in my head this is what is wrong with me. I told my Dr. and showed him the site and he said yes this is what is wrong.

It pisses me off that I have seen 7 Endo's been taken off TRT and suffered bad to be tested off TRT and not one of them seen this. All the test were done showing my low normal levels that were screaming I have a pituitary problem.

So my Dr. ordered an MRI and nothing showed a problem. I had to dam near break his arm to treat my low Cortisol and Thyroid.

Now that I am being treated things are looking up I am starting to get back but it is dam slow.

I feel TRT works if you have your levels up high enough up in the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man and your E2 down between 10 to 30 best at 20. And your Adrenals are in good shape with out any thyroid problems.
My sex life is dam good doing this and I has lost it for 10 yrs. due to high E2 levels as soon as I found out about high E2 in men and got mine down I got my sex life back like it was in my 20's.

I am on 10 mgs of cortef in the morning with 1 grain of Armour, 5 mgs of cortef at noon with 1 grain of Armour and 5 mgs. of cortef at dinner with 1.75 grains of Armour. My temps I have been doing for 11 months and this is the first time in the last 15 days they have been between 98.5 to 98.7. I still can't exercise and don't want to stress dose to do so. I don't think I can ever get off Cortef and have had to stress dose 2 times in the last 4 weeks from being up set do to bad health news from family members. I added 5 mgs and it helped but that night I could not sleep.

I feel like I am wasting away not being able to even walk for 10 min.'s with out having to stop and rest. I am just now starting to lose some weight and feel it's my thyroid because I have not done anything different. I have gained the 65lbs I lost and more back this is killing me. Every morning I wake up and think this is going to be the day I feel better and am going to hit my Thread Mill. By the time I empty the Dish washer and fix my breakfast I am all in. My wife is going in for Knee Surgery next week and I hope I can take care of her. I never thought I see the day that I would be this bad off. And I am still young 63 yrs. old.

My goal this yr. is to get back to where I was at a year and a half ago out working around the house, walking everyday for an hour and getting back to the Gym.

We can live a normal life on TRT but we need to know why we are low in the first place as you can see from my story just treating the low T was not enough and if Dr.'s yrs. ago were to treat my Adrenals and Thyroid I would not be in the shape I am today. The good thing is so far this winter I have not been sick like the last 23 winters. Because we are treating everything that is wrong. So do find out why your low on Testosterone and treat everything.

[KidCapriB]

thats a good story. I hope you can get back to where you were a year ago. Good luck!

[eeso]

I thought I had recovered after doing dr. scally's recovery protocol, but i crashed again.

I still havent gone back on TRT so I've been off everything for like 4months now, so ill see if there's been any improvement...

But i also just found out i have empty sella syndrome (pituitary problem) so maybe that's why my LH and FSH is low...although on clomid and nolva it went up to normal...

time will tell, but im pretty keen to get back on TRT because right now i dont have the energy to train more than a couple of times a week, lost heaps of strength, lost 3-4kg of muscle and am getting fatter!!

funny thing is tho, if i dont go to the gym my wang works alright, but if i go to gym then wang is no good. I guess i just dont have enough testosterone to do both...

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by eeso

I thought I had recovered after doing dr. scally's recovery protocol, but i crashed again.

I still havent gone back on TRT so I've been off everything for like 4months now, so ill see if there's been any improvement...

But i also just found out i have empty sella syndrome (pituitary problem) so maybe that's why my LH and FSH is low...although on clomid and nolva it went up to normal...

time will tell, but im pretty keen to get back on TRT because right now i dont have the energy to train more than a couple of times a week, lost heaps of strength, lost 3-4kg of muscle and am getting fatter!!

funny thing is tho, if i dont go to the gym my wang works alright, but if i go to gym then wang is no good. I guess i just dont have enough testosterone to do both...

If you have a pituitary problem you need to test all hormones that the Pit. puts out your feeling bad after a work out can be your Cortisol levels are low. Go to this site for help.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...1e81a394e9d4de
You need to test your Cortisol, DHEA-S, Thyroid TSH, Free T3, Free T4 and Thyroid Antibodies (TPO, which is Thyroid Peroxidase, and Antithyroglobulin. YOU NEED BOTH.)
* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)
IGF-1,Aldosterone and Renin along with all your Testosterone tests.