250mg weekly testosterone enthanate?

[Megazoid]

I was reading one of the older threads by love_en and he mentioned he was using 250mg (or 1ml) i believe of testosterone enthanate on a weekly basis. He was also taking HC and armidex to control E2.

In my most recent thread, one posted mentioned that using an "almost steroid like cycle..." would out rule testosterone as a cause of my problems and help with virialisation, beard growth, etc.

Is this safe long term? or would this be dangerous? Surely this would raise ALL hormones (Total T, Free T, DHT, Estridol, etc) over the the heightist range.

I was considering:

125mg on the monday
250iu HCG on wednesday
125mg on the thursday
250iu HCG on sunday

Would this bring me too high? 2000+ range? What are the negative long term effects of this?

[cjones]

It makes sense to control E2 with DIM or something on TRT because E2 comes from T so this will only increase

HCG seems to make sense as with anything that supports your own production but be careful with overdosing the additional T. From what I have read it takes 6 months to get your body to find the right balance so with the rollercoaster this has been you don't want to crash your system before you can get going

I also think Isocort would compliment the HCG that increases all the adrenal hormones for a better sense of wellbeing

[Fit4Life05]

It was me that recommended trying this.....

People who use Testosterone only Steoid cycles usually go about 500mg (beginner cycle) weekly, many go up to 1-3 grams weekly.

I say you should try at least 250mg per week. If using Test E pin twice weekly. 250IU of HCG (if you can get it) each day b4 Test injections.

Obviously E2 will need to be controlled on this, so an AI (Arimidex) would be needed, Id say at least .25mg every 3 days (if you get liquid dex remember that only 2/3 of it is arimidex)

There really aren't any side effects you need to worry about. But I would monitor you blood pressure and keep track of how ur prostate feels (hard to urinate). Either of these things can be relived, Saw Palmetto for prostate and Hawthorn Berry for Blood Pressure.

Long term effects would be red blood cells, but that can be countered by donating blood once every few months.

My honest opinion is that 250mg a week is not enough to cause any negative side effects. I'd say it'd take around 500mg (at least) being used constantly for many many months before any sides cam into play. Most bodybuilders do 12 week cycles at 1g weekly with relatively low sides.


Like I said this is what I would personally do if I were in you position. If this does not work then you would know that Test and E2 is not your main problem. I am also assuming possession of Steroids is legal in UK, Ive heard this several times.

Make sure if you do follow along with this, you stick to it. Many people who use Testosterone as a steroid dont even start to notice effects until week 6 (even at high doses). Obviously everyone is different, but consistency is the key.

....or you can continue feeling like a zombie for the rest of your days, not know what exactly the problem is. If you do follow along with this I suggest you start a log, as I would like to follow along. Good luck either way. Like I said desperate times call for desperate measures

[hardasnails1973]

Originally Posted by Fit4Life05

It was me that recommended trying this.....

People who use Testosterone only Steoid cycles usually go about 500mg (beginner cycle) weekly, many go up to 1-3 grams weekly.

I say you should try at least 250mg per week. If using Test E pin twice weekly. 250IU of HCG (if you can get it) each day b4 Test injections.

Obviously E2 will need to be controlled on this, so an AI (Arimidex) would be needed, Id say at least .25mg every 3 days (if you get liquid dex remember that only 2/3 of it is arimidex)

There really aren't any side effects you need to worry about. But I would monitor you blood pressure and keep track of how ur prostate feels (hard to urinate). Either of these things can be relived, Saw Palmetto for prostate and Hawthorn Berry for Blood Pressure.

Long term effects would be red blood cells, but that can be countered by donating blood once every few months.

My honest opinion is that 250mg a week is not enough to cause any negative side effects. I'd say it'd take around 500mg (at least) being used constantly for many many months before any sides cam into play. Most bodybuilders do 12 week cycles at 1g weekly with relatively low sides.


Like I said this is what I would personally do if I were in you position. If this does not work then you would know that Test and E2 is not your main problem. I am also assuming possession of Steroids is legal in UK, Ive heard this several times.

Make sure if you do follow along with this, you stick to it. Many people who use Testosterone as a steroid dont even start to notice effects until week 6 (even at high doses). Obviously everyone is different, but consistency is the key.

....or you can continue feeling like a zombie for the rest of your days, not know what exactly the problem is. If you do follow along with this I suggest you start a log, as I would like to follow along. Good luck either way. Like I said desperate times call for desperate measures

Megazoid best piece advice I could give you is to stick to one protocol and run it for a good 6-8 weeks and put your faith in the drs instead of constant second guessing them because its only going to stress you out and make your anxiety even worse. Frist thing in order to heal is to clear your mind of negative thoughts and to focus on the positive aspects of live. It was not untill i did this I was a dog chasing its own tail. I knew where the problem stemed, but drs would not lsiten so i can understand your frustration, but oen thing i did do and was told about that my life revolved around me being ill and after a while people got tired of hearing about it. If you focus constantly on this its only going to hold you back from getting better. My brother has MS and he is in terrible pain all day long but he goes to work and tries to live a normal life. He has a daughter and wife to take care of and basically pushes through it. IF he can do it any body can. I'm sure there are other under lying issues that need to be dealt with before resoltuion of your illness will be complete..We are here to support you in any way but you are under one of the best drs in the world so put your trust in them and let them do there job.

[pmgamer18]

Well said Nails Megazoid needs to get off his ass and do what Dr. M told him to do if this causes a problem when first starting ride it out sids happen with all meds. If it makes you so sick you can work call him and let him know.

Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

Megazoid best piece advice I could give you is to stick to one protocol and run it for a good 6-8 weeks and put your faith in the drs instead of constant second guessing them because its only going to stress you out and make your anxiety even worse. Frist thing in order to heal is to clear your mind of negative thoughts and to focus on the positive aspects of live. It was not untill i did this I was a dog chasing its own tail. I knew where the problem stemed, but drs would not lsiten so i can understand your frustration, but oen thing i did do and was told about that my life revolved around me being ill and after a while people got tired of hearing about it. If you focus constantly on this its only going to hold you back from getting better. My brother has MS and he is in terrible pain all day long but he goes to work and tries to live a normal life. He has a daughter and wife to take care of and basically pushes through it. IF he can do it any body can. I'm sure there are other under lying issues that need to be dealt with before resoltuion of your illness will be complete..We are here to support you in any way but you are under one of the best drs in the world so put your trust in them and let them do there job.

[love_en]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

I was reading one of the older threads by love_en and he mentioned he was using 250mg (or 1ml) i believe of testosterone enthanate on a weekly basis. He was also taking HC and armidex to control E2.

In my most recent thread, one posted mentioned that using an "almost steroid like cycle..." would out rule testosterone as a cause of my problems and help with virialisation, beard growth, etc.

Is this safe long term? or would this be dangerous? Surely this would raise ALL hormones (Total T, Free T, DHT, Estridol, etc) over the the heightist range.

I was considering:

125mg on the monday
250iu HCG on wednesday
125mg on the thursday
250iu HCG on sunday

Would this bring me too high? 2000+ range? What are the negative long term effects of this?

Yes, for almost 12 months I have been on 250 mg per week, taken once a week. I did drop down to 125 mg for about 2 months, however I did not like the effect. The muscle wasting and bone pain are not a problem at the lower dose, but sexual function is lacking. The high dose replacement has not caused any negative side effects that I can observe. No acne, balding, or excessively high blood pressure. I have not done any HCG since February 2006, but my testicles have not gotten any smaller. If anything, they are a bit larger than what I am used to. Ejaculate volume is way better than when I was living with low T. If it makes a difference, I have probably been secondary all of my life. I lost a lot of fat around my waist. Put on a fair amount of muscle on my arms, chest and shoulders. I spend zero time in the gym. I know lots of men who do not work out and they have nice bodies. That is only because they do not live with hypogonadism and adrenal insufficiency. Two years ago, I looked and felt hideous every day. Now, every morning I can look in the mirror and not be repulsed or disgusted. Right now, I am taking Andrew Androgen's advise and keeping a beard and moustache. Not one of those long things hanging off of my face. Its short, like what happens if a man hasn't shaven for a few days. Bottom line is do it. You will go through life hating how you look and feel if your testosterone and cortisone are low. At least you have a legal prescription for prednisone and thyroid. I have nothing and stand a slim chance of ever being treated properly. BTW, the reason why you feel bad on 2.5 mg of prednisone is it is just enough to supress your adrenals and not enough to replace. A replacement dose of prednisone is 5-7.5 mg per day. See how you feel on 2.5 mg twice a day.

[abigbadbaldgerman]

megazoid, no matter what u do: stick to a program for some monts, before u say it s not helping.

try out the 250mg test e per week, I m sure it will have a positive impact on your body. and the side effects with 250mg are almost non existent...

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

I was reading one of the older threads by love_en and he mentioned he was using 250mg (or 1ml) i believe of testosterone enthanate on a weekly basis. He was also taking HC and armidex to control E2.

In my most recent thread, one posted mentioned that using an "almost steroid like cycle..." would out rule testosterone as a cause of my problems and help with virialisation, beard growth, etc.

Is this safe long term? or would this be dangerous? Surely this would raise ALL hormones (Total T, Free T, DHT, Estridol, etc) over the the heightist range.

I was considering:

125mg on the monday
250iu HCG on wednesday
125mg on the thursday
250iu HCG on sunday

Would this bring me too high? 2000+ range? What are the negative long term effects of this?

How much money have you spend on a trip to USA to see dr Mariano.

Have you been able to use his advise?

How it worked for you?

In your opinion was it worth to go seeing him?

Thanks for sharing your story.
==================================================
To get to TT~2000
you need about 300mg/week

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attac...e-analysis.jpg

post #40
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 2

But I suggest that you treat TT values as secondary
more important is FreeT
lately dr Delgado suggested FreeT~300
depending on your SHBG level your TT requirements may vary.
To justify 250mg/week of testosterone your should have SHBG~(50-60)

Frequent and extensive blood testing is a basis for succesful theraphy.

[Megazoid]

Thanks for the replies guys.

JanSz, you seem to be the man for giving dosage advice and best protocol recommendations. Here are all my blood results.

Current Labs

This is all i have:

19.9.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy - 5 days after getting varicocele/little testicular atrophy):

Total T: 24.3 nmol/l (9.4 – 60.0)


05.10.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy - 4/6 weeks after varicocele and bad atrophy):

Total T: 15.2 nmol/l (14 – 40)
SHBG: 26.0 nmol/l (20 – 45)
Free Androgen Index: 58% (70 – 100)
Calculated Free Testosterone: 356.7 pmol/l (300 – 600)
FSH: 2.7 iu/l (0.7 – 6)
LH: 3.9 iu/l (0.8 – 6)
Estridol: 73 pmol/l (55 – 184)
TSH: 1.9 iu/l (0.4 – 5.5)
PSA: 0.2 ng/ml (0.2 – 4)
Free PSA: 0.2 ng/ml (0.1 – 2)
PSA ratio: 1.1 (0.09 – 0.5)


15.10.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy)

Total T: 14.0 nmol (no ranges available)


23.10.2006 (TestoGel (50mg – 1 packet) daily for ¾ weeks):

FSH: 2.1 iu/l (0.7 – 11.1)
LH: 2.7 iu/l (0.8 – 7.6)
Estridol: 75 pmol/l (73 – 273)
Prolactin: 70 miu/l (53 – 360)
Total T: 25.2 nmol/l (6.93 – 28.1)


23.11.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy):

Total T: 20.9 nmol/l (10 – 36.0)
SHBG: 20 nmol/l (6 – 45)
Free Androgen Index 104.5 (36 – 156)
LH: 3.9 U/L (2.0 – 8.6)
FSH: 2.2 U/L (1.0 – 4.5)
Prolactin : 169 Mu/L (0 – 400)


Please tell me what you think would be best for me. Is low/low normal SHBG an indication that i need a lower estridol level? What would my ideal E2 level be?

250mg a week sound's good. I would like to be able to grow a proper beard/mustache and also would like to get more muscle mass, i have always been very skinny with little muscle mass (most likely thyroid related).

I have noticed since not being on anything, my DHT seems higher because i am getting a mustache i never had before. I think most of my T is turning into DHT. E2 is probably low still. My head hair growth is also faster. I've also noticed a "little" increased muscle mass on my upper body. Saliva test showed high DHT. I am happy with this however because it's important for sexual function/reproduction.

Without question i want to use HCG 2x a week no matter what. Getting normal sized testicles is important for me as a single guy.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

Thanks for the replies guys.

JanSz, you seem to be the man for giving dosage advice and best protocol recommendations. Here are all my blood results.

Current Labs

This is all i have:

19.9.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy - 5 days after getting varicocele/little testicular atrophy):

Total T: 24.3 nmol/l (9.4 – 60.0)


05.10.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy - 4/6 weeks after varicocele and bad atrophy):

Total T: 15.2 nmol/l (14 – 40)
SHBG: 26.0 nmol/l (20 – 45)
Free Androgen Index: 58% (70 – 100)
Calculated Free Testosterone: 356.7 pmol/l (300 – 600)
FSH: 2.7 iu/l (0.7 – 6)
LH: 3.9 iu/l (0.8 – 6)
Estridol: 73 pmol/l (55 – 184)
TSH: 1.9 iu/l (0.4 – 5.5)
PSA: 0.2 ng/ml (0.2 – 4)
Free PSA: 0.2 ng/ml (0.1 – 2)
PSA ratio: 1.1 (0.09 – 0.5)


15.10.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy)

Total T: 14.0 nmol (no ranges available)


23.10.2006 (TestoGel (50mg – 1 packet) daily for ¾ weeks):

FSH: 2.1 iu/l (0.7 – 11.1)
LH: 2.7 iu/l (0.8 – 7.6)
Estridol: 75 pmol/l (73 – 273)
Prolactin: 70 miu/l (53 – 360)
Total T: 25.2 nmol/l (6.93 – 28.1)


23.11.2006 (No Hormone Replacement Therapy):

Total T: 20.9 nmol/l (10 – 36.0)
SHBG: 20 nmol/l (6 – 45)
Free Androgen Index 104.5 (36 – 156)
LH: 3.9 U/L (2.0 – 8.6)
FSH: 2.2 U/L (1.0 – 4.5)
Prolactin : 169 Mu/L (0 – 400)


Please tell me what you think would be best for me. Is low/low normal SHBG an indication that i need a lower estridol level? What would my ideal E2 level be?

250mg a week sound's good. I would like to be able to grow a proper beard/mustache and also would like to get more muscle mass, i have always been very skinny with little muscle mass (most likely thyroid related).

I have noticed since not being on anything, my DHT seems higher because i am getting a mustache i never had before. I think most of my T is turning into DHT. E2 is probably low still. My head hair growth is also faster. I've also noticed a "little" increased muscle mass on my upper body. Saliva test showed high DHT. I am happy with this however because it's important for sexual function/reproduction.

Without question i want to use HCG 2x a week no matter what. Getting normal sized testicles is important for me as a single guy.

Your SHBG is somewhere between 20 and 26
assume SHBG=26
you want FreeT~300
you need TT~1100ng/dL=38nmol/dL
you need preliminary dose of 160mg/week
best when divided E3D
with your story, I would advice againt using HCG and let your testicels shrink.
Pain in testicles is causing you anxiety and all other negatives.
Shrunken testicles should not impair your sex life.
Test every 2-3 months, adjust, repeat testing, repeat adjusting.

My lattest test (and djustments) in post #62

Your E2 is low, do not use Arimidex or LiquiDex

In UK you are able to get tested by Genova Diagnostics.
I describe tests, that eventually I will be using, in my post #44
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007 - Page 3
currently I am waiting for results of
Estroessence

Metabolic Analysis Profile
and
Cellular energy profile

from Genova

[Megazoid]

JanSz, very special thanks for your advice on this. The testosterone i was going to use was:

Axiolabs TestaPlex E 250 (10ml Vial contains 250mg/ml testosterone enanthate)

Does estridol increase cause SHBG to go higher? Does free t have a factor in this?

Does low of high thyroid hormone effect SHBG balance?

When my testicles are pulled up and tight they hurt the most, the pain is less when they are hanging and i feel with normal sized testicles they would be better protected by my large scrotum (my nut's shrunk but scrotum remained same size).

What would happen if i did 1ml (250mg) every week split into 125mg shot's?

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

JanSz, very special thanks for your advice on this. The testosterone i was going to use was:

Axiolabs TestaPlex E 250 (10ml Vial contains 250mg/ml testosterone enanthate)

Does estridol increase cause SHBG to go higher? Does free t have a factor in this?

Does low of high thyroid hormone effect SHBG balance?

When my testicles are pulled up and tight they hurt the most, the pain is less when they are hanging and i feel with normal sized testicles they would be better protected by my large scrotum (my nut's shrunk but scrotum remained same size).

What would happen if i did 1ml (250mg) every week split into 125mg shot's?

Just do whatewer you decide to do.
Do it for 2-3 months, then do blood testing, adjust as indicated by test.
It is hard to predict individual reactions.

Before my TRT, my testicles hurt when scrotum was hanging low, so I learned to use tight briefs.
Now my scrotum does not hurt even when is hanging low (with full testis).

You will newer know, unless you try.
But do your experiments in planned ways, so you can learn, for future, how you react.

[swordfish]

I was sick much of high school / college and it wasnt until second year of college that I started to looking into hormones.

My roommtates were all taking cypionate at hefty dosages for bodybuilding purposes.

I tried 300/mg per week for weeks (worked out too) and to my amaze I felt just about 90% normal for these 8 weeks. I came off it using the pct methods and felt back to my normal shitty self.

I am not sure if 125-250mg of test per week will give me that "over the normal range" feel...?

Cream TRT sucks in my opinion and would I rather inject...

I want to try supporting adrenal/thyroid first before I give testosterone injections a full trial... but i'm sure if I saw Dr. John, his regimen may work for me and be enouhg to be satisfied with...

I have never had a problem getting a boner, cumming, etc. But i dont get boners much in the morning, or when I think I should. Only with a girl, porn, etc.