3.5 months into Nolvadex

[Andromeda]

Some of you may remember that I started Nolvadex in early September this year to treat gynecomastia and help get rid of the bitch tits. I'ts worked fairly well, but progress has really slowed big time in the last month, and I'm concerned as to what I should be doing from here on in.

I'm taking 20mg nolvadex per day with the tablet cut in half - first 10mg in the morning and the 2nd half later that night.
I've read that there are different 'types' of gynecomastia, and mine is definitely the 'lump' variety whereby theres very little fat, but firm lumps instead. Besides which I'm very trim at about 14% body fat and good musculature (ie: its not from being fat!) My Testosterone levels are mid to high level since taking the nolvadex, and I take no other steroids except for a very low dose hydrocortisone - 10mg / day

At the moment I've asked my Dr to consider prescribing me armidex so that I can give nolvadex a break, while also seeing if there is a more effective treatment for getting rid of the gyne.
Is there any evidence to suggest that Nolvadex should only be taken over the short term (3 months)?
Is armidex likely to be more effective at treating my gyne?
What is the best treatment for this 'lump' gyne?

Thanks in advance,

[van-man]

In many cases, once gyno has developed beyond a certian point, surgery is the only way to completely remove it. A good friend of mine had to have his removed once several years ago.

As far as the duration of the nolvadex, I've seen studies with post breast cancer patients who've taken nolvadex for two years or so. I would suggest that at doses of 20mg or less, nolva is perfectly safe. However, the longer you are on it, the more careful you must be when you come off. You don't want to quit all at once; taper off very slowly so as to allow your HPTA time to adjust.

[taser]

be caredul with Nolva..it increases my SHBG big time...

[Andromeda]

Vanman, I'd hate to think that surgery is my only option. Its hormonal changes that have caused it in the first place and I believe that its hormonal changes that can lead to the solution. I've only had the gyne for 9-10 months before commencing treatment, so it shouldn't be an intricate part of my body anyway.. (Heres hoping)

Taser,
I prolly have very high SHBG as I also have plenty of T3 hormones by nature. What is the concern with high SHBG if your T and Free T levels are fine?

Cheers

[keaster]

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Taser,
I prolly have very high SHBG as I also have plenty of T3 hormones by nature. What is the concern with high SHBG if your T and Free T levels are fine?

Cheers

What are your levels like.

[Drea'An]

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Some of you may remember that I started Nolvadex in early September this year to treat gynecomastia and help get rid of the bitch tits. I'ts worked fairly well, but progress has really slowed big time in the last month, and I'm concerned as to what I should be doing from here on in.

I'm taking 20mg nolvadex per day with the tablet cut in half - first 10mg in the morning and the 2nd half later that night.
I've read that there are different 'types' of gynecomastia, and mine is definitely the 'lump' variety whereby theres very little fat, but firm lumps instead. Besides which I'm very trim at about 14% body fat and good musculature (ie: its not from being fat!) My Testosterone levels are mid to high level since taking the nolvadex, and I take no other steroids except for a very low dose hydrocortisone - 10mg / day

At the moment I've asked my Dr to consider prescribing me armidex so that I can give nolvadex a break, while also seeing if there is a more effective treatment for getting rid of the gyne.
Is there any evidence to suggest that Nolvadex should only be taken over the short term (3 months)?
Is armidex likely to be more effective at treating my gyne?
What is the best treatment for this 'lump' gyne?

Thanks in advance,

Stop taking hydrocortisone! ASAP ! This converts to cortisol in your body! A substance that you don't want very little of in your bloodstream! Talk to your doctor.

[JustOne]

Arimidex is used to treat gyno, but unless your E2 is elevated I cant see how it could help, I guess you could try keep it at 15pg/ml asuming your alil higher then that.

[keaster]

Originally Posted by Drea'An

Stop taking hydrocortisone! ASAP ! This converts to cortisol in your body! A substance that you don't want very little of in your bloodstream! Talk to your doctor.

Maybe he has an adrenal problem.

[Andrew Androgen]

Originally Posted by Drea'An

Stop taking hydrocortisone! ASAP ! This converts to cortisol in your body! A substance that you don't want very little of in your bloodstream! Talk to your doctor.

You, my friend, have obviously come down in the last shower. Why don't you spend some time here reading the posts from Marianco. Cortisol is the most important hormone in the body.

[pmgamer18]

If you grow breast tissue all you can do to get rid ot it is surgary and good Dr. can check you and tell if you have breast tissue.

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Vanman, I'd hate to think that surgery is my only option. Its hormonal changes that have caused it in the first place and I believe that its hormonal changes that can lead to the solution. I've only had the gyne for 9-10 months before commencing treatment, so it shouldn't be an intricate part of my body anyway.. (Heres hoping)

Taser,
I prolly have very high SHBG as I also have plenty of T3 hormones by nature. What is the concern with high SHBG if your T and Free T levels are fine?

Cheers

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by Andrew Androgen

You, my friend, have obviously come down in the last shower. Why don't you spend some time here reading the posts from Marianco. Cortisol is the most important hormone in the body.

If you read Dr. Jefferies book Safe uses of Cortisol you will find the body makes about 50mgs a day and doing 10mgs a day is nothing and will do nothing to harm anyone.
http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/
http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X
He has treated women that could not stay pregnant with 5mgs 4x's a day HC and they were albe to have a baby. He treats CFS with the same dose you can help your Adrenal Fatigue doing this dose. And when you feel like your getting sick double it for 2 to 3 days and you will not get sick.

[chap]

ANDROMEDA:

please tell us your overall results and feelings about your nolvadex protocal.... this is somewhat uncharted territory as far as journals or such for people that are on nolvadex only with no other test or hormones for long term.... your testosterone levels are obviously benefitting it seems...

how about other anecdotes?

how is libido, sexual function, energy, etc?

have any of these changed in any way month to month since you started the protocal?

[Andromeda]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

If you read Dr. Jefferies book Safe uses of Cortisol you will find the body makes about 50mgs a day and doing 10mgs a day is nothing and will do nothing to harm anyone.
http://members.aol.com/jefferiesw/
http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X
He has treated women that could not stay pregnant with 5mgs 4x's a day HC and they were albe to have a baby. He treats CFS with the same dose you can help your Adrenal Fatigue doing this dose. And when you feel like your getting sick double it for 2 to 3 days and you will not get sick.

Good to see a few replies to this post - Just back now having travelled out of town to see my mother for Xmas. Re: getting off Cortisol - not an option as I had my natural pre treatment salivary levels tested and it showed readings right down the bottom of the scale. Furthermore, from what I understand 10mg of hydrocortisone a day is DEFINITELY not going to cause adrenal shutdown. Furthermore, if I stopped even this low dose I would feel bloody awful. Just btw, my T levels were 44 were the range is from 15-35. Free T was somewhat lower at about 115 where the range is 60-130.

Justone - I can confirm my E2 levels are very much elevated with tests done just a few weeks ago indicating an E2 level of 540 mu/l where the top of the acceptabe range is 300. Now I posted about this a couple months ago and was told it was because Nolvadex is mistaken for E2 in the blood tests, and that I need to test for fractionalised estrogens (Estriol and Estrone) to get a truer idea of my bodies proper Estrogen levels. However I have my doubts over this as my gynecomastia is not really improving the last month or so. Has anyone else also found their E2 levels elevated while on Nolva?

Someone else here asked about my Thyroid and SHBG levels. Not sure about SHBG but T3 levels are often 5.8 or 6.3 where the top of the range is 5.5. T4 levels are usually mid range... I might ask him to include an SHBG test in my next series of tests.....

Getting back to the original question - does anyone have anything further to add re: treatment of 'lump' type gyne, whether SERM's like Nolva should only be taken short term, and whether Armidex will be a better option for me?
Keen to hear your ideas...

Cheers in advance,

[Andromeda]

Originally Posted by chap

ANDROMEDA:

please tell us your overall results and feelings about your nolvadex protocal.... this is somewhat uncharted territory as far as journals or such for people that are on nolvadex only with no other test or hormones for long term.... your testosterone levels are obviously benefitting it seems...

how about other anecdotes?

how is libido, sexual function, energy, etc?

have any of these changed in any way month to month since you started the protocal?

Nolvadex has been quite effective in getting rid of my gynecomastia. In terms of energy levels they have definitely improved since starting it with noticeable improvements within 2 weeks of starting (was able to get by with less hydrocortisone each day)
For the first month I took a mere 10mg of nolva a day. My libido increased slightly a few days after commencing but then levelled off. It then increased again for a week after the 2nd month shortly after the Dr put me on 20mg/day. However it then decreased and is actually worse than pre treatment levels and this is in spite of having HIGH T levels now!.
Hope thats of some use to all you out there considering the stuff.. No negative side effects apart from the decreased libido over time.... I'm sure that will come back as I taper off the stuff...