6 weeks on gels follow up

[masterpp]

hey guys ive been on gels for 6 weeks.

ive noticed almost no change in my physical side, ie no more muscle tone or fat loss, but my mood is so much better. also i wake up every morning with wood, although libido is not that high its definately better. more importantly my mood is a lot better (really improved) and my facial hair is starting so sprout more.

at mo im doing 10g (2 packs a day) but i was wondering if the second pack is wasted, for a start i feel like not all the second pack is being absorbed and secondly im worried about e2. however with me the e2 is hard to measure as even when my T was low my e2 was high, which is random i know.

as a quick question, is one pack of gel ever enough. it seems to me that most guys have to up the dosage because of hpta suppression, but is 1 androgel a day ever enough for people (what i mean is that im on two as im assuming thats the dose most people need)

many thanks

m

[masterpp]

Guys here are my results from a couple of months back (off trt)
Plasma oestradiol 202 PMOL/l (less than 191)
plasma fsh 65.8 iu/l (obviously seriously high
plasma lh 38.2 (1.5-9.3)
plasma testosterone 11.4 nmol/l (8.4-28.7)
Plasma prolatcin 336 mU/l (45-375)

Cortisol 839 nmol/l (180-620)

these are my results from last week (6 weeks on 2 packs of androgel a day)

oetrodial 52 (up to 191)
fsh 4.4
lh 0.3
t 44.1 (8-28)
shbg 35.9 (13-71)
corisol 641 (180-620)

the results are screwi- when ever i go on trt, my estogen actually goes down. i believe that the issue is to do with shbg. in the presense of exogenous t, my shbg goes down in my opinion, taking the e2 down with it.

either way these are good results, but i am not sure they measured the estrogen correctly, i may not have got the sensitive assay for males i dont know.

either way please pass comment

[pmgamer18]

Question did you put on the Testim first then do the blood test. Your levels are 1272 ng/dl this can't be on 10 grams of Testim the highest I have seen is 650 for me the highest I ever went was 600. Every time I put on the gel first then did the blood test my levels came back high. The first time this happened my Dr. lowed my dose and in a week I crashed and it took me 6 dam weeks to get back. So now we never lower the dose with out a second test. Let me know

[masterpp]

i agree- the result does seem too high. im sure they must have sucked up some of the gel when they took the blood.

ho hum. either way im waiting for a dht result which should enlighten me

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Question did you put on the Testim first then do the blood test. Your levels are 1272 ng/dl this can't be on 10 grams of Testim the highest I have seen is 650 for me the highest I ever went was 600. Every time I put on the gel first then did the blood test my levels came back high. The first time this happened my Dr. lowed my dose and in a week I crashed and it took me 6 dam weeks to get back. So now we never lower the dose with out a second test. Let me know

[pmgamer18]

I have seen this happen when I did not put on the gel the next morning but did not shower so the gel was still on my arms. And when she stick me to draw the blood she went into my arm were the gel was on the day before. And my levels were to high. I say you looking dam good cortisol is on the high side but now I find blood tests are not good for cortisol levels. So I use this lab do test cost is $140 if your a member at Stop the Thyroid maddness site.
http://www.canaryclub.org/component/...page/Itemid,1/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/
Your E2 will come down as T levels go up so your looking good.
Next is to add HCG as per SWALE's site www.allthingsmale.com

[Ruper]

Originally Posted by masterpp

g the e2 down with it.

either way these are good results, but i am not sure they measured the estrogen correctly, i may not have got the sensitive assay for males i dont know.

either way please pass comment

I think if you actually get a number - like 52, as opposed to a '<50' type reading they did the correct test. The 'sensitive' test is not necessarily specifically for males, it is just sensitive enough to get an actual number at low (10-200 in your case) readings, as opposed to the levels normally found in women.

At least that's how I understand it.

[021mk]

Hi, I am on androgel also. I am only on 5 g and am not feeling anything after 4 weeks. I am wondering how you use the packs. Do you do on morning and one night? both at the same time? maybe one arm per pack? Also, I I have the same question you do; is one pack ever ewnough?

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by 021mk

Hi, I am on androgel also. I am only on 5 g and am not feeling anything after 4 weeks. I am wondering how you use the packs. Do you do on morning and one night? both at the same time? maybe one arm per pack? Also, I I have the same question you do; is one pack ever ewnough?

It looks like it's not enough for you and you should have been retested after 2 weeks starting Androgel.

Here is what can happen after starting the gel your levels go up on top of your base line levels then your brain checks your T levels sees your up and stops sending the messages to your testis to make more T. Now you start droping and can go lower then you base line levels.

Get tested and check E2 if your not in the mid to upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man for both Total and Free T then you need to up your dose. After doing this get tested in 4 weeks to be sure your levels are coming up. If not then your not getting the gel though your skin and you need to try shots.

[masterpp]

hey its a tricky one. i get morning wood, and amazingly improved mood, but very little improved physical stuff. however, in my case my levels were so low, that my low t actually drove up my shbg and estrogen. in the presence of hrt, my shbg and estrogen both go down, so i get double the bang for my buck.

so even a little trt gives me an ok effect.

as for the question of whether 5mg is ever enough, im still waiting for a response. if one does hcg with the 5mg, i believe it is enough as you will have all the benefits of your baseline level. however, one must also take into account the negative effects of too much t, which cause estrogen conversion, which is less than ideal.

still waiting to find anyone who just uses 5mg as only form of trt.

if anyone does please post

Originally Posted by 021mk

Hi, I am on androgel also. I am only on 5 g and am not feeling anything after 4 weeks. I am wondering how you use the packs. Do you do on morning and one night? both at the same time? maybe one arm per pack? Also, I I have the same question you do; is one pack ever ewnough?

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by masterpp

hey its a tricky one. i get morning wood, and amazingly improved mood, but very little improved physical stuff. however, in my case my levels were so low, that my low t actually drove up my shbg and estrogen. in the presence of hrt, my shbg and estrogen both go down, so i get double the bang for my buck.

so even a little trt gives me an ok effect.

as for the question of whether 5mg is ever enough, im still waiting for a response. if one does hcg with the 5mg, i believe it is enough as you will have all the benefits of your baseline level. however, one must also take into account the negative effects of too much t, which cause estrogen conversion, which is less than ideal.

still waiting to find anyone who just uses 5mg as only form of trt.

if anyone does please post

Well i just got back from Doc office he put me on Testim 1% @50 mgs /day .... sounds as if tis may not be even close for the proper amount, of course i know everyone reacts differently. Won't get another blood work until 8 more weeks. So i'll see.
Also I plan to utilize a low amorizing (spelling) type anobilic with my TRT anyone have any suggestions for a good combo . Thanks.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by supdoc

Well i just got back from Doc office he put me on Testim 1% @50 mgs /day .... sounds as if tis may not be even close for the proper amount, of course i know everyone reacts differently. Won't get another blood work until 8 more weeks. So i'll see.
Also I plan to utilize a low amorizing (spelling) type anobilic with my TRT anyone have any suggestions for a good combo . Thanks.

Are you sure you want to go on TRT without knowing why your low. I still feel you need more testing done.

But if you feel you need to go on this Testim you should not wait 8 weeks for your next test. Going on gels can cause problems like you can end up with a lower level then what you started at. Here is what can happen your brain will see the added T and stop sending the messgages to your testis to make T. So in the first 4 to 6 days you can go up much higher then your base level then your brain sees this and stops sending the messages your levels drop back down. If the dose your doing is not enough you can go lower then your base line test. So you should be tested in 2 weeks so your not feeling bad. If your 2 week test shows you low you need to up the dose. Then you need to retest in 4 more weeks and if your stil low you can't do gels it is not getting through your skin. You will need to try shots.

[supdoc]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Are you sure you want to go on TRT without knowing why your low. I still feel you need more testing done.

But if you feel you need to go on this Testim you should not wait 8 weeks for your next test. Going on gels can cause problems like you can end up with a lower level then what you started at. Here is what can happen your brain will see the added T and stop sending the messgages to your testis to make T. So in the first 4 to 6 days you can go up much higher then your base level then your brain sees this and stops sending the messages your levels drop back down. If the dose your doing is not enough you can go lower then your base line test. So you should be tested in 2 weeks so your not feeling bad. If your 2 week test shows you low you need to up the dose. Then you need to retest in 4 more weeks and if your stil low you can't do gels it is not getting through your skin. You will need to try shots.

I suggested shots from the getgo, but my doc wants me to try the gel first. All my testing has been done and came back normal, he says i basicly have testicular failure. Now let me clarify all this I probably have been low on test levels for a number of years now, but i have ran 2 cycles of fina with the last being approx. 3 months ago. I could be partly shutdown from that. I didn't use proper PCT, but my test levels have been low for a long time based on my severe symptoms.

[pmgamer18]

Ok if you start to feel dam good then drop back get your levels checked don't wait 8 weeks.

[masterpp]

haven't been feeling so great lately- pretty sure i need to go back on two packs a day, which surprises me as i am so slight.

anyway should i do both packs at once, or one pack in morning one in evaning. i would have though spreading them would be better as you dont get such a large hit at once, and your levels remain steadier (i have also heard that this is better for hairloss as you dont get such a sudden dht conversion

cheers

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by masterpp

haven't been feeling so great lately- pretty sure i need to go back on two packs a day, which surprises me as i am so slight.

anyway should i do both packs at once, or one pack in morning one in evaning. i would have though spreading them would be better as you dont get such a large hit at once, and your levels remain steadier (i have also heard that this is better for hairloss as you dont get such a sudden dht conversion

cheers

First you size has nothing to do with your dose. I did 10 grams all in the morning after a shower but you can try doing one in the morning and one at night if it does not keep you up this is ok. But you need to do a blood test and check your E2.