Arimidex **instead** of TRT

[pmgamer18]

Ok let me lay this one on you we have a guy at the H2 group that was tested just Total T and put on Androgel this guy never felt right. Found a new Dr. that took him off the Androgel can't remember if it was 2 weeks or 4. Put him on 1mg. a day of Arimidex and his levels went up into the 600 last time he posted he was up higher. Turns out this Dr. is having a lot of success doing this. He finds that men he tests that have low T and low LH and FSH but high Estradiol this works. I told the guy that this is a dam high dose and he said this is the dose that works for the Dr.

Here is a link to the start of the thread it's dam long.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/36231
And this is a study about this.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174


And this is a cut & paste off his first post.
Phil

Arimidex **instead** of TRT Message List

Reply | Forward | Delete Message #36231 of 37120 < Prev | Next >

My only prior post was a contribution a few days ago to the exercise
thread. I promised that I would have more to report on a new
protocol I'm following once I got the followup bloodwork. Now's the
time.

I'll start with the conclusion: I'm now on 1mg of Arimidex
**instead** of testosterone replacement therapy, and this puts me in
the high range of normal for T with a nice level of estradiol. Who
woulda' thunk I could get to that T range without supplementing with
T?

The background is that I was diagnosed with low T about 6 years ago
by my endo/PCP, a diagnosis stimulated by my complaints of erectile
dysfunction. I went on TRT, ultimately settling on a regimen of 10g
of Androgel per day. At the time of diagnosis, I learned whatever I
could, as I always do, and was generally satisfied with my PCP's
handling of the situation; e.g., he tested for total and free
testosterone as well as prolactin, LH and FSH, and then sent me for a
precautionary MRI of the pituitary when the LH and FSH turned out to
be at the low end of normal range. He did test for estradiol, but
only because I asked him to after having read about its importance on
the Life Extension Foundation website. Nevertheless, the T level was
the most important thing to him, and he was happy to get me to the
high range of normal with the 10g of Androgel. This did not become a
cure for the ED, and I resorted to the new wonders of pharmaceutical
remedies for that.

This spring, I changed insurance companies and learned that they
would not pay for Androgel without a demonstration of the medical
necessity, so I asked my doc to order a retest of whatever he would
need to provide that proof.

June 19th, blood was taken for this purpose, and here are the results
(remember, this is on 10g/day of Androgel):

FSH 2.3 (Range 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH 2.2 (Range 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
Total T 562 (Range 260-1000 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone
% Free 1.1 (Range 1.0-2.7%)
Free 63.6 (Range 50.0-210.0 pg/mL)

I was somewhat surprised and a bit disappointed that he didn't test
for estradiol.

Shortly after doing this bloodwork, I was informed that my PCP had a
back injury and my appointment would have to be postponed. This got
postponed yet again, and I later learned that he would be out for an
extended period and that he would not be able to tend to me for quite
some time.

Fortuitously, I had to look for a new urologist, since the one I used
to go to had moved his office to an inconvenient location, and I
preferred to keep my doctors' appointments within walking distance
(I'm in Manhattan).

I brought all my bloodwork to my new urologist. After he examined
me, he spent a few minutes telling me how useless the PSA test was,
then started talking to me about my testosterone. Mind you, I had
already found this group, and had read lots of stuff confirming the
importance of estradiol levels. I had also read lots of comments
generally dismissing the competence of endocrinologists or urologists
to deal with these issues.

Well, this urologist is obviously a different breed. He looked at my
numbers and said I was at the right dosage of Androgel, but then he
started talking about Arimidex as his preferred method of treatment.
At this, I already had the feeling this guy knew more about T than
any other doctor I've seen. In fact, he then pulled out a copy of a
manuscript he had written about using aromatase inhibitors in men for
a whole host of good effects. The paper has been accepted for
publication in a British international urological journal.

Before putting me on Arimidex, he wanted to see my estradiol level
and get another reading on my T. Here's what he found:

Estradiol 39 (Range 10-50 pg/mL)
Total T 687 (Range 241-827 ng/dL)

With these results, he gave me a prescription for Arimidex, to take
1mg per day. I did a double-take, since that's a far greater amount
than what I read about in this group. He said this was definitely
the dosage for me. I asked about getting a new prescription for
Androgel with my new insurance company, and he then apologized for
not making himself clear. I was to drop the Androgel altogether.
Let it wash out of my system for at least a week before starting the
Arimidex. Then take the Arimidex for 3 weeks before re-doing the
bloodwork.

Well, the 3 weeks was up last Friday and I revisited my doc this
afternoon. Here are the results on 1mg Arimidex per day and dropping
the T replacement:

Estradiol 13 (Range 10-50 pg/mL)
Total T 617 (Range 241-827 ng/dL)

Wow. That 617 of testosterone is all me, not some "additive."

He was very pleased and told me to come back in a month for re-
testing. As I was leaving, he smiled and predicted that in our
lifetimes the majority of men will be taking Arimidex.

Bob

[The_Skeptic]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Ok let me lay this one on you we have a guy at the H2 group that was tested just Total T and put on Androgel this guy never felt right. Found a new Dr. that took him off the Androgel can't remember if it was 2 weeks or 4. Put him on 1mg. a day of Arimidex and his levels went up into the 600 last time he posted he was up higher. Turns out this Dr. is having a lot of success doing this. He finds that men he tests that have low T and low LH and FSH but high Estradiol this works. I told the guy that this is a dam high dose and he said this is the dose that works for the Dr.

Here is a link to the start of the thread it's dam long.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/36231
And this is a study about this.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174


And this is a cut & paste off his first post.
Phil


Arimidex **instead** of TRT Message List

Reply | Forward | Delete Message #36231 of 37120 < Prev | Next >

My only prior post was a contribution a few days ago to the exercise
thread. I promised that I would have more to report on a new
protocol I'm following once I got the followup bloodwork. Now's the
time.

I'll start with the conclusion: I'm now on 1mg of Arimidex
**instead** of testosterone replacement therapy, and this puts me in
the high range of normal for T with a nice level of estradiol. Who
woulda' thunk I could get to that T range without supplementing with
T?

The background is that I was diagnosed with low T about 6 years ago
by my endo/PCP, a diagnosis stimulated by my complaints of erectile
dysfunction. I went on TRT, ultimately settling on a regimen of 10g
of Androgel per day. At the time of diagnosis, I learned whatever I
could, as I always do, and was generally satisfied with my PCP's
handling of the situation; e.g., he tested for total and free
testosterone as well as prolactin, LH and FSH, and then sent me for a
precautionary MRI of the pituitary when the LH and FSH turned out to
be at the low end of normal range. He did test for estradiol, but
only because I asked him to after having read about its importance on
the Life Extension Foundation website. Nevertheless, the T level was
the most important thing to him, and he was happy to get me to the
high range of normal with the 10g of Androgel. This did not become a
cure for the ED, and I resorted to the new wonders of pharmaceutical
remedies for that.

This spring, I changed insurance companies and learned that they
would not pay for Androgel without a demonstration of the medical
necessity, so I asked my doc to order a retest of whatever he would
need to provide that proof.

June 19th, blood was taken for this purpose, and here are the results
(remember, this is on 10g/day of Androgel):

FSH 2.3 (Range 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH 2.2 (Range 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
Total T 562 (Range 260-1000 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone
% Free 1.1 (Range 1.0-2.7%)
Free 63.6 (Range 50.0-210.0 pg/mL)

I was somewhat surprised and a bit disappointed that he didn't test
for estradiol.

Shortly after doing this bloodwork, I was informed that my PCP had a
back injury and my appointment would have to be postponed. This got
postponed yet again, and I later learned that he would be out for an
extended period and that he would not be able to tend to me for quite
some time.

Fortuitously, I had to look for a new urologist, since the one I used
to go to had moved his office to an inconvenient location, and I
preferred to keep my doctors' appointments within walking distance
(I'm in Manhattan).

I brought all my bloodwork to my new urologist. After he examined
me, he spent a few minutes telling me how useless the PSA test was,
then started talking to me about my testosterone. Mind you, I had
already found this group, and had read lots of stuff confirming the
importance of estradiol levels. I had also read lots of comments
generally dismissing the competence of endocrinologists or urologists
to deal with these issues.

Well, this urologist is obviously a different breed. He looked at my
numbers and said I was at the right dosage of Androgel, but then he
started talking about Arimidex as his preferred method of treatment.
At this, I already had the feeling this guy knew more about T than
any other doctor I've seen. In fact, he then pulled out a copy of a
manuscript he had written about using aromatase inhibitors in men for
a whole host of good effects. The paper has been accepted for
publication in a British international urological journal.

Before putting me on Arimidex, he wanted to see my estradiol level
and get another reading on my T. Here's what he found:

Estradiol 39 (Range 10-50 pg/mL)
Total T 687 (Range 241-827 ng/dL)

With these results, he gave me a prescription for Arimidex, to take
1mg per day. I did a double-take, since that's a far greater amount
than what I read about in this group. He said this was definitely
the dosage for me. I asked about getting a new prescription for
Androgel with my new insurance company, and he then apologized for
not making himself clear. I was to drop the Androgel altogether.
Let it wash out of my system for at least a week before starting the
Arimidex. Then take the Arimidex for 3 weeks before re-doing the
bloodwork.

Well, the 3 weeks was up last Friday and I revisited my doc this
afternoon. Here are the results on 1mg Arimidex per day and dropping
the T replacement:

Estradiol 13 (Range 10-50 pg/mL)
Total T 617 (Range 241-827 ng/dL)

Wow. That 617 of testosterone is all me, not some "additive."

He was very pleased and told me to come back in a month for re-
testing. As I was leaving, he smiled and predicted that in our
lifetimes the majority of men will be taking Arimidex.

Bob

I wonder how old this guy is. I wonder if this issue had been high E2 all along instead of Low T, as is the case with many men as they get older. And I wonder if 1 mg of Arimidex will prove to be too high in the long run because doesn't it build up in your body? He might need to reduce the dosage if this happens.

[pmgamer18]

Originally Posted by The_Skeptic

I wonder how old this guy is. I wonder if this issue had been high E2 all along instead of Low T, as is the case with many men as they get older. And I wonder if 1 mg of Arimidex will prove to be too high in the long run because doesn't it build up in your body? He might need to reduce the dosage if this happens.

Yes it you went to the H2 link and read the long thread he was over weight and had his stomach tied. But he was on TRT for a long time some 4 to 6 yrs so his weight gain could have come from been on his ass for a long time.
The link to the study is good also there is talk that prostate problems are do to E2 and in the furture most men will be taking Arimidex to keep this from happening.

[fister]

Aromasin would be a better option as its not detremental even after long-term use that is if you are trying to go that route. I am finally off of TRT and found that my natural levels are now in the 600 range and prolactin, estradiol, and everything were all within range.

I did TRT for 3 months and towards the end I felt like I could experiment and see if I can get my levels within range naturally. I ended up doing PCT when I was done with TRT which consisted of

Week 1 100mg Clomid/40mg Nolvadex, Tribulus (Biotest Alphamale)
Week 2 50mg Clomid/30mg Nolvadex, Tribulus (Biotest Alphamale)
Week 3 20mg Nolvadex, Tribulus (Biotest Alphamale)
Week 4 20mg Nolvadex, Tribulus (Biotest Alphamale)

I have taken the Biotest Alphamale before and cant say that I saw a difference but this new improved version has more in it. Here's whats in it.

1130mg Super-Concentrated Extracts (Tribulus terrestris, Vitex agnus castus, Eurycoma longifolia), Carbolin™19 (forskolin 1,9-carbonate)

[bullmastiff]

I am currently on 1 mg of arimidex a week. Has driven my total T well over 600 and free t well over 100. It seems like my body is very sensitve to e2. When I get to around 25 everything shuts down. If I push E2 under 20 my T begins to rise again.

I'm 59 and apparently my testicles are still functioning. When I hear of guys in their 40's are on TRT I sometimes wonder if E2 is really the problem. In my mind someone in their 40's is still young and shouldn't be suffering from primary hypogonadism. There are exceptions I know but I'm talking about the majority of the cases.

Also I think many libido problems are caused by prescription drugs. many of them lower dopamine and that screws up your libido. I'm on klonopin for anxiety at 1 1/2 milligrams a day which isn't a lot. But if I skip a dose one day I'm usually horney as a 16 year old. When you look at all the sleeping pills, tranqulizers and anti-d's guys are on it's no wonder their T is low and their libido's are low. I've found that if you add exogenous T (such as androgel) to a mess of prescription drugs it does nothing for me. So i think the key to restoring healthy levels of Total and free T are looking at the prescription drugs you are taking and see if their causing problems and also managing your E2.

[The_Skeptic]

Originally Posted by bullmastiff

I am currently on 1 mg of arimidex a week. Has driven my total T well over 600 and free t well over 100. It seems like my body is very sensitve to e2. When I get to around 25 everything shuts down. If I push E2 under 20 my T begins to rise again.

I'm 59 and apparently my testicles are still functioning. When I hear of guys in their 40's are on TRT I sometimes wonder if E2 is really the problem. In my mind someone in their 40's is still young and shouldn't be suffering from primary hypogonadism. There are exceptions I know but I'm talking about the majority of the cases.

Also I think many libido problems are caused by prescription drugs. many of them lower dopamine and that screws up your libido. I'm on klonopin for anxiety at 1 1/2 milligrams a day which isn't a lot. But if I skip a dose one day I'm usually horney as a 16 year old. When you look at all the sleeping pills, tranqulizers and anti-d's guys are on it's no wonder their T is low and their libido's are low. I've found that if you add exogenous T (such as androgel) to a mess of prescription drugs it does nothing for me. So i think the key to restoring healthy levels of Total and free T are looking at the prescription drugs you are taking and see if their causing problems and also managing your E2.

I think E2 is playing a much bigger role in men's health than most doctors admit. Much of it is due to all the crap they put in our foods.

[The_Skeptic]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Yes it you went to the H2 link and read the long thread he was over weight and had his stomach tied. But he was on TRT for a long time some 4 to 6 yrs so his weight gain could have come from been on his ass for a long time.
The link to the study is good also there is talk that prostate problems are do to E2 and in the furture most men will be taking Arimidex to keep this from happening.

My dad died of prostate cancer at the age of 82. Although he had lived a long life, he suffered for more than two decades because of his prostate. He flew all over the country to visit doctors, seeking relief.

But I was looking at an old picture of him the other day when he was about 50 and sure enough, he had gynecomastia. Now I realize that most of his problems were most likely caused by E2 -- something I'm willing to bet no doctor even mentioned because he would have said something to me about it.

It's so frustrating to realize that only a handful of doctors have acknowledged that many cases of BPH is actually caused by E2 and not DHT.

I have a very sensitive prostate, probably due to inheritance and when my E2 goes up, my prostate acts up. But when it's under control, my pee flows freely.

[bullmastiff]

I bet more of the hrt done with HCG would be successful if they used arimidex along with the HCG. I tried HCg and my E2 went from 25 to 33. So my testosterone didn't rise and my free T actually went down. Maybe primary physicians should start testing guys for e2 once they reach middle age.

[snipe]

Before starting TRT I was able to get my total T to 600+ using 1mg, Arimidex ED. My previously high E2 came down below 25. Unfortunately I did not feel any better. Only after several weeks of Depo-Test did I notice physical and emotional improvement.

[farmerjohn]

Originally Posted by pmgamer18

Yes it you went to the H2 link and read the long thread he was over weight and had his stomach tied. But he was on TRT for a long time some 4 to 6 yrs so his weight gain could have come from been on his ass for a long time.
The link to the study is good also there is talk that prostate problems are do to E2 and in the furture most men will be taking Arimidex to keep this from happening.

Interesting Phil. Dr Shippen told me he thinks high E2 is a much greater risk factor for prostate cancer than high T is. In fact I think he felt T was beneficial to the prostate and it was E2 that caused irritation. I'll have to ask him more about this.