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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

it started slowly id say a week then day by day all the good effects got better but the fatigue has been constant any one else have that problem?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

Day 2 of 25mg cliompihene citrate

Well I took my 2nd clomiphene pill yesterday. what can I say? Very soon after taking it I get very bad low e2 symptoms. They subside after several hours but they are bad when you feel them. Also I get some pretty awfl depression right after taking the drug. some people say on high doses like 300 mg they become emotional trainwrecks. Well considering I get the symptoms I have at 25 mg i could not imagine taking that high of a dosage. However those kinda subside symptoms.

I figure the low e2 symptoms are due to the fact that the clomiphene is blocking the e2 receptors and because im still suppressed from the TRT I got off of 2 and a half weeks ago that my body is not really making any or much test yet so there is not much aromatization of test to e2 to counter that. So basically what little e2 i have in my body is all being blocked, or at least a big part of it. However, I think my body may be starting to make a just a bit of test. Had morning oaks all night last night. Not the best but there nonetheless and while libido is still pretty much dead, function is improving. I have only taken 2 25 mg dosages so far and will take my third later tonight but I figured I would share my expereinces. Right now I dont feel too bad and I am staying positive that slomid for trt might workfor me. it seems like it would such a much better more natural route. I hateed the injections and the constant up and downs peaks and valleys. And let me tell you; some of those valleys were very low.

I'll keep everyone posted.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

OK...........

Got my results from my blood test after being off test for 2 weeks and an hour before i started clomid treatment.

T=146

FSH = 3 (4-10) (Suprisingly high)

LH = .91 (6-19)

SHBG = 15 (lowest its ever been)

E = 2 (0-5) (Ok)

Prolactin = 8 (Good)



My pituitary is capable of shooting some LH obviously.

Does everyone here think clomid will work for me. Taken 2 25 mg dosages so far and have not really felt much.

Feedback is not only appreciated, but needed as well.
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

Yeah, give it a week or two before worrying about what it's doing. A .91 LH reading is still next to nothing so give it a little more time. LH should at least jump to 3.0 or so I would imagine...
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

If anyone wants me to keep a log on this I will.

I wil say I am having very slow improvements of all symptoms. I had a couple zits pop up on my face so I know its starting to work.

Quite a ways to go but I am thinking this may be a better option form as opposed to injections.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terresw View Post
If anyone wants me to keep a log on this I will.

I wil say I am having very slow improvements of all symptoms. I had a couple zits pop up on my face so I know its starting to work.

Quite a ways to go but I am thinking this may be a better option form as opposed to injections.
how do u feel mentally and physically.am i the only man that feels week and fatigued from clomid
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

I would not say I am a ball of energy, however I havent been on the clomid very long and IM imagine its going to take a while before it reaches its peak effect at the dosage i am taking. Things are getting better slowly. I am really thinking this might be a good long term solution for me.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2009, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terresw View Post
I would not say I am a ball of energy, however I havent been on the clomid very long and IM imagine its going to take a while before it reaches its peak effect at the dosage i am taking. Things are getting better slowly. I am really thinking this might be a good long term solution for me.
i hope it works out for you i personally cant wait to get off it lol but really i never heard of anyone complain of fatigue
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

Excellent!
Wiki:
Clomifene (INN) or clomiphene (USAN and former BAN) or Clomid or Clomifert is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), increasing production of gonadotropins by inhibiting negative feedback on the hypothalamus.

Makes sense. If negative feedback thru the inhibin and and androgen mechanism is decreased then the hypothalmus will secrete more gonadatropin and the pituitary will release more LH and FSH and so on.
Upon reflection the body builders have realized this for a while and I have overlooked it because it is not mentioned in the texts.
This certainly warrants looking into and I will do that and post the results.
Can you investigate further? If you need basic science or medical knowledge support I will help.
I think this is important and might change the nature of TRT.




Quote:
Originally Posted by terresw View Post
Ths study was completed last month. i found it quite interesting. These men were treat with clomid only for their hypogonadism and were folled up on over a period of 6 months to over 3 years. it seems that clomid may indeed be a possible treatment for hypogonadism if you can tolerate the side effects. The men were given 50mg EOD.

ANyone have any thoughts on this?

I am thinking it would be a superior form of treatment due to keeping the HPTA intact. Also on average mens sexual function on Clomid was somewhat better than it was before treatment.


Clomiphene Citrate and Testosterone Gel Replacement Therapy for Male Hypogonadism: Efficacy and Treatment Cost
Frederick Taylor, MD, and Laurence Levine, MD
Rush University Medical Center—Department of Urology, Chicago, IL, USA
Correspondence to Frederick Taylor, MD, Urology, Rush University Medical Center, 1725 W. Congress Parkway, Suite 348, Chicago, IL 60612, USA. Tel: +312-942-6447; Fax: +312-942-4005; E-mail: frederick_taylor@rush.edu
Copyright © 2009 International Society for Sexual Medicine
KEYWORDS
Hypogonadism • Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator • Testosterone • Testosterone Deficiency Syndrome • Male
ABSTRACT
Introduction. The efficacy of oral clomiphene citrate (CC) in the treatment of male hypogonadism and male infertility (MI) with low serum testosterone and normal gonadotropin levels has been reported.

Aim. The aim of this article is to evaluate CC and testosterone gel replacement therapy (TGRT) with regard to biochemical and clinical efficacy and cost.

Main Outcome Measures. The main outcome measures were change in serum testosterone with CC and TGRT therapy, and change in the androgen deficiency in aging male (ADAM) questionnaire scores with CC therapy.

Methods. Men receiving CC or TGRT with either Androgel® 1% or Testim® 1% for hypogonadism (defined as testosterone < 300 ng/mL) or MI were included. Serum values were collected 1–2 months after treatment initiation and semi-annually thereafter. Retrospective data collection was performed via chart review. Subjective follow up of patients receiving CC was performed via telephone interview using the ADAM questionnaire.

Results. A hundred and four men (65 CC and 39 TGRT) were identified who began CC (50 mg every other day) or TGRT (5 g). Average age (years) was 42(CC) vs. 57 (TGRT). Average follow up was 23 months (CC, range 8–40 months) vs. 46 months (TGRT, range 6–149 months). Average posttreatment testosterone was 573 ng/dL in the CC group and 553 ng/dL in the TGRT group (P value < 0.001). The monthly cost of Testim® 1% (5 gm daily) is $270, Androgel® 1% (5 gm daily) is $265, and CC (50 mg every other day) is $83. Among CC patients, the average pretreatment ADAM score was 4.9 vs. 2.1 at follow up (P < 0.05). Average pretreatment ADAM sexual function domain score was 0.76 vs. 0.23 at follow up (P < 0.05). There were no adverse events reported.

Conclusion. CC represents a treatment option for men with hypogonadism, demonstrating biochemical and clinical efficacy with few side effects and lower cost as compared with TGRT. Taylor F, and Levine L. Clomiphene citrate and testosterone gel replacement therapy for male hypogonadism: Efficacy and treatment cost. J Sex Med **;**:**–**.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Clomid for TRT?

now that i think of it when i first started clomid it was 100mgs a day and i felt horrible but then i backed it off and felt ok but i also added in the armour soon after and i think that may be the culprit. i really think my rt3 is going through the roof and causing this extreme fatigue.im gonna have to bite the bullet and pay otta pocket for labs to see where im at.then maybe the doc will give me just t-3
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