Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Creams versus gels? within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Originally Posted by drp90210
Just wanted to report that my negative symptoms have been elminated by substantially increasing the amount ...
Just wanted to report that my negative symptoms have been elminated by substantially increasing the amount of compunded testosterone cream I apply. For me, Androgel was absorbed about 3 times more efficiently than the compunded cream. I'm now using 15% test cream applying 1 1/2 grams a day, or about 22 grams of test. This makes my labs about the same as using 6 pumps of Androgel, or 7.5 grams. So the cream is clearly not absorbnog as well, but of course is significantly less expensive. With a teeny amount of progesterone cream, my DHT levels are in check and I'm feeling fairly good.
Have you tested your DHT before and after progesterone?
Have you tested your DHT before and after progesterone?
My labs just came back, and I am totally bummed and confused. At 1CC's suggestion, I switched from Androgel to creams to reduce DHT. I then added progesterone because my levels were very low. I'm also doing HCG (250 IU every three days) and DIM (4 caps a day). Yet here are my labs, taken 4 hours after applying the cream (and not on an HCG day):
DHT - 189 (normal is 16-66)
Total T - 1034 (normal is 280-1100)
Free T - 12.41 (!!) - (normal is 12.4-40.0)
Estadiol - 60.0 (normal is 21-76)
Since nothing seems to get my DHT down - which is a big deal for me since my family has a history of prostate cancer and I do not want to lose my remaining hair - I am thinking of proprecia. I know people here discourage that, but I don't know what else to do. Also, is there any hard data suggesting that injections cause less DHT than creams/gels?
Are you loosing hair? If not then you might not want to fret so much about the DHT aspect of the problem. Do you have an enlarged prostate?
I personally believe it is HIGH E2 that causes prostate cancer, and there is newer research supporting this. Middle aged and older men do not have HIGH DHT levels, they have HIGH E2!
Your E2 is very high. HCG contributes to this problem. HCG doubles my E2 and it appears it may be doing the same in you. Do you have E2 labs before starting HCG to give us a baseline?
You have a number of options here as I see it:
1. Lower or cut out HCG as it introduces aromatase into your body which converts your T to E2. You might just want to cut out the HCG and retest in a few weeks before doing anything else. HCG can jack your T up and really jack your E2 up.
2. Lower your dose of T creme by a 1/4 -1/3. How much depends on how much HCG you cut back on. If you cut it out altogether, then you might not want to cut your T creme back at all until you retest. Lowering your T creme should also lower your DHT.
3. Are you overweight? If so this is also be contributing to your elevated E2. You may want to consider taking a .25mg of Armidex 2-3 days per week as well as lowering your T dosage a little to get your E2 down along with dieting(I am shooting in the dark here, you could be skinny as a rail).
4. You may need to switch to pellets or subq Test shots every 3 days and forget about cremes.
Don't put much stock in Free T levels, they are not worth much. Total T is more important.
How have you been feeling? Your Total T is nice, but for you and your goals you might want to get it closer to 800. That will only further help you keep your DHT and E2 in check.
Are you loosing hair? If not then you might not want to fret so much about the DHT aspect of the problem. .
Thanks -- I actually am losing my hair and don't want to lose more. I am hopeful that saw palmetto, DIM and progesterone will eventually lower the DHT, but if they don't, I'll have to consider other options like propecia.
Don't do propecia under any circmstances, too many guy's have been messed up bad because of this shit. DHT is important for other aspects of health (penile tissues for example).
DIM will low E2 which in turn "might" lower DHT but probably not enough in your case. Sounds like lowering E2 alone will help though, maybe consider another method of lowering DHT.
Where are your applying and what you applying TRT wise?
When I was on cream I was told by Collage the place that made it for me not to put the cream on the day of the blood work. They said it would come back high on everything. Was told to do blood work frist thing in the morning then put on the cream. What kind of DIM are you on and how long have you been on it. What you taking is not working maybe you need some Arimidex. Do not use Proprecia it can mess up your sex for life. I had DHT much higher then this and to keep my prostate safe I got some Saw P. http://www.myvitanet.com/sawpaco120so.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by drp90210
My labs just came back, and I am totally bummed and confused. At 1CC's suggestion, I switched from Androgel to creams to reduce DHT. I then added progesterone because my levels were very low. I'm also doing HCG (250 IU every three days) and DIM (4 caps a day). Yet here are my labs, taken 4 hours after applying the cream (and not on an HCG day):
DHT - 189 (normal is 16-66)
Total T - 1034 (normal is 280-1100)
Free T - 12.41 (!!) - (normal is 12.4-40.0)
Estadiol - 60.0 (normal is 21-76)
Since nothing seems to get my DHT down - which is a big deal for me since my family has a history of prostate cancer and I do not want to lose my remaining hair - I am thinking of proprecia. I know people here discourage that, but I don't know what else to do. Also, is there any hard data suggesting that injections cause less DHT than creams/gels?
Bummed in Los Angeles.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
Dr. John says using Progesterone will raise e2. Better to use Pregnenolone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drp90210
Thanks -- I actually am losing my hair and don't want to lose more. I am hopeful that saw palmetto, DIM and progesterone will eventually lower the DHT, but if they don't, I'll have to consider other options like propecia.
__________________
Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
From what I read here, most people that use a cream use 10%.
How much cream are you using, details on cream application?
Do you use HCG, how?
What are your T and FreeT levels?
What is your situation with DHT and E2?
Any arguments from pharmacist?
Anything else?
Cream seems as the way to go, that is why I posted this interrogation.
Even with the large dose of bi-weekly injections, DHT didn't exceed the top of the normal range. With more frequent administration, you'd probably get even less conversion.
Re: Creams versus gels? 
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