Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Creams versus gels? within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Originally Posted by drp90210
My labs just came back, and I am totally bummed and confused.
Why are you bummed ...
My labs just came back, and I am totally bummed and confused.
Why are you bummed and confused? Your results are a consequence of haphazardly doing your own thing and going against all the advice you were given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drp90210
I'm now using 15% test cream applying 1 1/2 grams a day
That would amount to 225mg of testosterone per day, and you were advised to take no more than 50mg testosterone per day. You were also advised to use a 10% concentration and you somehow started using a 15% concentration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drp90210
So the cream is clearly not absorbnog as well
As you can see from your labs, it is absorbing very well, but you never gave yourself a chance to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drp90210
since my family has a history of prostate cancer and I do not want to lose my remaining hair - I am thinking of proprecia. I know people here discourage that, but I don't know what else to do. Also, is there any hard data suggesting that injections cause less DHT than creams/gels?
HRT needs to be administered and monitored properly in order to avoid problems. I highly recommend you get in touch with Marianco (send him a PM and he will send you his details), who is in northern California, or Dr. John Crisler at www.allthingsmale.com who has an office in Michigan and is also opening an office in San Francisco. This would be the quickest and safest way for you to enjoy the benefits of HRT.
Why are you bummed and confused? Your results are a consequence of haphazardly doing your own thing and going against all the advice you were given. That would amount to 225mg of testosterone per day, and you were advised to take no more than 50mg testosterone per day. You were also advised to use a 10% concentration and you somehow started using a 15% concentration . . .
I will answer your question. As I had stated in a prior post, I started with the 10% cream, precisely as you had suggested from the pharmacy you suggested, at 50-75 mgs APPLIED (not necessarily absorbed). My labs from that cream were rather dismal, as apparently I was not absorbing the cream well (total T was in the 400s and my free T was BELOW normal range but oddly DHT was over 170; SHGB was good). After the 10% cream did not work, I went to the 15% cream. With 150-200 mgs applied, that got total T up, but oddly, free T remained low, DHT reamined high, and E2 went up. Its important to note that regardless of whether I used Andorgel, 10% cream or 15% cream, from doses ranging from 40 mgs to 200 mgs, over a two month period, my DHT levels have always been above 170. So to answer your question, that is why I am bummed and confused. My current hope is that my ultra-low levels of progesterone had been creating the DHT problem, and that with low doses of progesterone cream to get me to normal levels, that will control the DHT. Several pharmacies have told me the reason they compound progesterone with test cream is to control DHT. But this is yet another theory and the jury is out on that.
I am grateful for your and others advice but its unfortunate that there is no longer a doctor on this board answering questions. TRT can get complicated and there is disagreement within this board as to a variety of issues. I agree with you that I need a TRT expert. I have an appointment with Michael Galitzer (Suzanne Sommers' hormone person), but his first opening is in March. If anyone knows of any TRT experts near Los Angeles, any such referrals would be much appreciated.
My labs just came back, and I am totally bummed and confused. At 1CC's suggestion, I switched from Androgel to creams to reduce DHT. I then added progesterone because my levels were very low. I'm also doing HCG (250 IU every three days) and DIM (4 caps a day). Yet here are my labs, taken 4 hours after applying the cream (and not on an HCG day):
DHT - 189 (normal is 16-66)
Total T - 1034 (normal is 280-1100)
Free T - 12.41 (!!) - (normal is 12.4-40.0)
Estadiol - 60.0 (normal is 21-76)
Since nothing seems to get my DHT down - which is a big deal for me since my family has a history of prostate cancer and I do not want to lose my remaining hair - I am thinking of proprecia. I know people here discourage that, but I don't know what else to do. Also, is there any hard data suggesting that injections cause less DHT than creams/gels?
Bummed in Los Angeles.
My version.
IIRC you were feeling ok on Androgel and switched to creams to reduce area of application,
in the belief that it will reduce your DHT and E2.
Even if this is right approach, the changes are probably very slow in comming.
What were you labs on Androgel (when you felt good)?
Use enough cream to get you T levels same as on Androgel or go back to Androgel
Use some AI of your choice. At first take three Arimidex pills, split it, take 1/2 pill every 3 days. Then switch to something more gentle, or stay on Arimidex just take less of it, since 4 DIM is not helping.
Use minute amounts of Avodart, I am experimenting with one pill every other week.
With 2 months without Avodart my DHT was 226.
On daily Avodart my DHT was 29
Avodart have very long half life, I am still loking for proper dose.
-------------------------------------
Have anyone been dividing/splitting Avodart capsules?
or used http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product...=16162&cat=248
Please report your experience.
If anyone knows of any TRT experts near Los Angeles, any such referrals would be much appreciated.
It is very difficult to remain objective when one is suffering, and the tendency in most cases is to do/take anything to feel better, instead of remaining methodical, which unfortunately is always the wrong thing to do.
The following doctor was highly recommended to me in the past, but I have not used him, because he is very pricey if I recall correctly.
Ullis, Karlis MD - Sports Medicine & Anti Aging
Address: 1807 Wilshire Blvd # 205, Santa Monica, CA 90403
Phone: (310) 829-1990
It is very difficult to remain objective when one is suffering, and the tendency in most cases is to do/take anything to feel better, instead of remaining methodical, which unfortunately is always the wrong thing to do.
The following doctor was highly recommended to me in the past, but I have not used him, because he is very pricey if I recall correctly.
Ullis, Karlis MD - Sports Medicine & Anti Aging
Address: 1807 Wilshire Blvd # 205, Santa Monica, CA 90403
Phone: (310) 829-1990
The following doctor was highly recommended to me in the past, but I have not used him, because he is very pricey if I recall correctly.
Ullis, Karlis MD - Sports Medicine & Anti Aging
Thanks, 1cc. That's very funny you mention Dr. Ullis -- I saw Dr. Ullis twice. First, he told me to try 500 IUs of HCG every three days (he said every two days would not create the desired "pulsing" effect), plus 1/3 tab Arimidex also every three days. That was the worst regimen ever, as I felt like crap and my estrogen levels were depleted. After this nightmarish experience, I gave up on HCG (I had been using it for a month per Shippen's belief in this drug), and then went to Androgel. The Andgrogel worked, but created way too much DHT, and I am now using the creams per your suggestions with small amounts of progesterone, which was incredibly low and supposedly inhibits DHT more than propecia. If my DHT is still sky-high in my next labs, I will have to change regimens again.
Thanks, 1cc. That's very funny you mention Dr. Ullis -- I saw Dr. Ullis twice. First, he told me to try 500 IUs of HCG every three days (he said every two days would not create the desired "pulsing" effect), plus 1/3 tab Arimidex also every three days. That was the worst regimen ever, as I felt like crap and my estrogen levels were depleted.
Yea, that is a crappy regimen.
If you can make it to see Dr. John, or Dr. Marianco for the first visit, the subsequent consults can be done long distance. I believe that Dr. Marianco does his consults by phone (preferrable), whereas Dr. John does his by e-mail. Dr. Marianco is up in the Monterey area. Also in the Monterey area is Dr. Philip Miller author of the excellent book "The Life Extension Revolution" http://www.antiaging.com/anti-aging.html . I'm not sure whether he requires a personal visit for followup visits. He is also pricey.
Dr. John will also work with your local GP doctor in your treatment, if your doctor is prepared to do it. He would essentially conduct your treatment remotely, with your local doctor assisiting.
Re: Creams versus gels? 
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