Creams versus gels?

[drp90210]

Several days ago I stopped taking Androgel due to excessive DHT conversion and started taking a stronger compounded cream. I was advised on this board that because Androgel is 1% testosterone and compounded creams can be made with 10% testosterone, using less "volume" of cream as compared to Androgel (over a smaller area of skin) would provide me with the same amount of testosterone with less DHT conversion, because skin volume makes more DHT. However, since I made this change to a cream, I feel noticeably less energetic, and frankly, a bit depressed, even though I am theoretically taking the same milligrams of test (75 p/day).

Question: Has anyone found that creams require a higher testosterone "dosage" (in terms of milligrams of transdermal testosterone) as compared to Androgel or Testim?

[JustOne]

I have heard creams are not as consistant as gels, so maybe its just not working well for you.

You should consider injections.

[Vforcer2]

I do know that the various bases used in the gels and creams have a lot to do with the absorption. For instance a study did show that Testim had much better absorption than Androgel.

With creams I have heard that you want one that is non PLO based. Solutions Pharmacy uses a cream called "HRT Cream" which is a vanishing cream that is supposed to be better than other forms of creams.

You should, theoretically have less DHT conversion if using a smaller area such as the hairless portion of your forearms and biceps, rotating these application sites. Keep the area you use smaller than a can of Coke if you can.

At this juncture, I would increase the amount of cream you are using since it is obvious you are not getting as much T absorption.

There is no need to rush off to do injections. Many guys are happy with creams, you probably just need to tweak your method a bit.

[Vforcer2]

One last thing. Creams can be compounded up to 20% T. However, I do not know if anyone here uses the 20% because it is so hard to measure it out since it is such a small amount of cream. Just think if you took the amount of cream you now have and cut it in half how difficult it would be to measure.

I suppose if you could not get your levels up using the 10% that you could try the 20% in larger amounts under the theory that you are getting much less absorption than you need.

1cc and Sunkist are both avid proponants of using creams and they both use 10%. 1cc gets his from http://www.womensinternational.com/ because he is kinda girly

[Cynical Simian]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

At this juncture, I would increase the amount of cream you are using since it is obvious you are not getting as much T absorption.

Agreed.

I remember reading some posts about creams at >10% having stability issues (probably in one of 1cc's old posts - do a search under his name for a lot of good info on compounded creams). For that reason, you might want to stick with the 10% cream (but at a higher dosage) before going back to AndroGel or trying an even higher concentration or shots.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by drp90210

Several days ago I stopped taking Androgel due to excessive DHT conversion and started taking a stronger compounded cream. I was advised on this board that because Androgel is 1% testosterone and compounded creams can be made with 10% testosterone, using less "volume" of cream as compared to Androgel (over a smaller area of skin) would provide me with the same amount of testosterone with less DHT conversion, because skin volume makes more DHT. However, since I made this change to a cream, I feel noticeably less energetic, and frankly, a bit depressed, even though I am theoretically taking the same milligrams of test (75 p/day).

Question: Has anyone found that creams require a higher testosterone "dosage" (in terms of milligrams of transdermal testosterone) as compared to Androgel or Testim?

Your T absorption may be much better on the T cream since less is being converted to DHT. Your dosage at 75mg is probably too high, which may cause an increase in estrogen. I believe I mentioned in some links I referred you to that 50mg would be a good dosage to start at and then adjust after labs if necessary. Androgel and T Cream will produce different results, so one can't dose them the same. It sounds like you may be having a higher estrogen problem right now. Hopefully after adjusting your dosage this will correct. You will need to do labs after 2 weeks on the T cream. Total T, Free T, Estradiol, DHT.

Where did you purchase your T Cream from? Is it 100mg/gram? Where are you applying it? When are you applying it? Are you using an alternate site?

Be sure to rub the cream in a little at a time. Once that is absorbed, then rub in a little more. I have found this provides the best and quickest absorption.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by Vforcer2

I suppose if you could not get your levels up using the 10% that you could try the 20% in larger amounts under the theory that you are getting much less absorption than you need.

1cc and Sunkist are both avid proponants of using creams and they both use 10%. 1cc gets his from http://www.womensinternational.com/ because he is kinda girly

LOL. Actually they were the largest and cheapest in the country and used by a lot of doctors.

Even though, technically, a 20% solution is possible, the end result is a thicker "unelegant" cream that may cause absorption problems and be more difficult to rub in.

[Sunkist]

1CC knows his stuff on this and has spent more time than I have on studys of adsorptives.

I spend a little more to get my T compounds but I totally trust the pharmcist. One can get burnt so go locally where you trust the person. Mine discusses the vehicles and has helped me tweak the system... and I get the doses in syringes to measure. I think some still get the compounded in vials.

I do know that every one is different. I do not convert as easily to DHT, but I do to E. That has made me work out my system to address that. I took the 1% gel for a couple of months and I was getting zip from it, and it was more expensive by far. I will never go back to a gel.

Now everyone has different receptor capability, different chemical mediator capability, different anti-5 and anti-aromatase capability, ad infinitum. You have to make the system work for you. There is a ton more to the depression thing here than T. I do believe T/E is more important.

I spend more time on mediators now, than T. T is just the foundation. The emotions and capabilities come from a lot of other stuff as well.

[drp90210]

1cc -- thanks -- in response to your Qs, I am using 10% cream from the womens int pharmacy, using (now) about 60-70 mg applied to a coke-can sized area on my outer arm (tricep) area. I was going to try bicep area as someone had suggested but becaue that area is not as dry as outer arm and can rub against other areas I thought I'd do outer arm.

I find that I have to rub the damn cream for at leaast 5-6 minutes to make the white go away.

[1cc]

Originally Posted by drp90210

1cc -- thanks -- in response to your Qs, I am using 10% cream from the womens int pharmacy, using (now) about 60-70 mg applied to a coke-can sized area on my outer arm (tricep) area. I was going to try bicep area as someone had suggested but becaue that area is not as dry as outer arm and can rub against other areas I thought I'd do outer arm.

I find that I have to rub the damn cream for at leaast 5-6 minutes to make the white go away.

The tricep area is too thick for the cream. If you pinch the skin on the tricep, and then pinch the skin on the inner bicep, you will notice that the skin on the inner bicep is much thinner. The inner bicep area is great for applying the cream. That is where I apply it. It is dry, and out of the way, and after putting on a T shirt you can avoid transference. You can apply it to the inner area of the bicep. In order to avoid having a hard time rubbing the cream in, rub in a very little at a time, and once that is completely rubbed in, then rub in a little more, repeat until done. I have found that this is the quickest and best for absorption. After being done, the cream should be completely absorbed. Apply to 1 bicep per day, and alternate biceps every day.

They provide a measuring spoon that measures 1gram. To measure less, you can use cooking measuring spoons. 1/4 teaspoon = 1 gram, 1/8 tsp = 1/2gram. To measure less, buy small cooking spoons set called dash, pinch smidge. Dash = 1/8tsp, pinch = 1/16tsp, smidge = 1/32tsp. So, you can measure out 100, 50, 25, 12.5mg's T.

In order to lower your dose to 50mg, you need to use 1/8 teaspoon.