Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Depression, HPA axis, lowered testosterone levels? within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; [quote=
Oh yeah, about that bad night vision thing.. I'm not sure. I do know that if you're overly sensitive ...
[quote=
Oh yeah, about that bad night vision thing.. I'm not sure. I do know that if you're overly sensitive to light, it might indicate an adrenal problem..[/QUOTE]
Why would you want to use Nolva if you don't even know your E levels? As I understand it, Nolva reduces the action of Estrogen, so you're only speculating that it would have any effect on your T levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_boy20
I cannot believe it...again...the mirror effect
You look almost like me (you have a bit more muscles 5-6 lbs , and less fat 3-4%) i'm 179 too
I'd like to test Total Testosterone again but i'm needle- - - if anyone can help regarding needle-fear PM me...
I have kind of a brain fog too, especially in the dark afternoon, night ...kinda bad night vision
i was wondering if its high E2 or low T symptom or what ... (i have it 4-5 years already)?!
hmmmm 900 <---
i'd like to test again for LH, FSH, Total T, E2, Cortisol, Prolactin...before nolvadex but i have no solution for needle fear...
"And I'd love not having to struggle so damn much just to maintain the kind of physique a truly healthy young man would attain with recreational weight lifting every now and then & eating whatever crap he feels like" - exactly !
Do you live anywhere near California? I'm asking because there is a doctor (psychiatrist) in Monterey, CA who knows a great deal about the link between hypogonadism/male hormone issues and brain chemistry. His name is Dr. Romeo Mariano and he goes by the name "Marianco" on this forum. You may want to look at some of his old posts. They're extremely informative. If you can afford it, you can make an appt. and fly out to see him. He requires one actual/physical visit per year (if you're from out-of-state), and the rest he does over the phone. Many guys who participate in this forum are patients (or at least admirers) of Dr. Mariano, and I have never heard any negative feedback about him. Good luck w/ everything!
Russianrocket, I'm not sure if that question was aimed at me, but if it was, I was just throwing nolva out there as one option. But I'm not going to be taking anything until I get my bloodtests, and the saliva test to detect or rule out adrenal fatigue (I'll be doing it this coming sunday).
MacDonnell, unfortunately I live across the Atlantic (Northern Europe). I used to live in California for a while, though.. and actually went there on a vacation trip for 2 weeks this past november. I visited Monterey on that trip.. too bad I had no idea about Dr. Mariano back then.
Anyway, it's unlikely I'll be able to afford another trip there anytime soon, and with the way doctors are over here, I'll either have to pull a few strings.. cash in a favor or two to get the doctors to listen to my case, or alternatively, find some source outside of the medical practices that deals with these substances, and become my own doctor (that is, once I've established exactly what is wrong with me, apart from low-average total testosterone).
Are you in the UK? If so, you may want to contact Megazoid about a pretty decent doc. in London named Caruthers, I think? If you are near Belgium, there is another VERY good doc. there apparently. Your case seems very similar to what mine was like at your age. I also remember getting my T checked when I was 21. It was 550...and of course, the endo said that was in range and perfectly normal. We all, on this board, realize that is not always the case. My advice to you is to try to get this "fixed" now while you're young. Unfortunately, it usually just gets worse as we age. I know how you feel about starting HRT at such a young age. I hope you don't have to do that, but if you do, it's not the worst thing in the world. Perhaps, like you said, HCG or Nolva will do the trick. Good luck with that. As far as your depression is concerned, if you're REALLY feeling bad and just trying to make it through life, you may have to go on meds for a while. Don't everybody start beating me up now! I realize that antidepressants are oftentimes, just "bandaids" and don't address real problems (which in your case, could very well be hormonal). However, if you need something to "get you through" in a really difficult period, don't be afraid to use these. Have you ever tried Wellbutrin, Serzone, or Remeron? All of these work quite well w/ zero to VERY few sexual sides. It may take you a while to get your hormones in check. Until that happens, you may want to try one of these if you find yourself going through a very difficult period. Good luck with everything, buddy.
Mac, thanks for the words of support, man. They're very much appreciated.
I live in Finland, actually. I wish I knew of a knowledgeable doctor around here that specializes in male hormonal issues, but as far as I know, there are no such docs around. I mean sure, I could find someone to give me TRT.. all I'd need would be to go on a drastically reduced calorie diet for a while (I'm actually on a cutter right now, but I'm not going below 2500 calories/day, since I only seem to get progressively worse/burned out and deflate my muscles into nothingness if I try to go lower than that, as opposed to burning more fat). That should drive what little testosterone I'm producing right into the ground. Of course I wouldn't mention the reason for my testosterone plummet to my doc, and he'd prescribe something to me, being none the wiser.
In fact, I have a doctor's appointment for next week, and hopefully I'll get as comprehensive a blood profile done as possible. Since it's public healthcare, the doc may or may not cover everything I need to assess, but since I have a few trump cards up my sleeve, I'm sure I'll get most, if not all of it, covered. The good thing is, it won't cost me a dime since it's through the public sector.
I have tried various antidepressants over the years, but none of them seemed to do anything for me other than kill my already low sex drive, make me borderline impotent, and leave me feeling zombified. Others gave me horrible morning nausea. However, I've yet to try Wellbutrin, which seems to have a benign reputation as far as sexual/other side effects are concerned. I could consider myself giving it a shot.
I'm not terrible depressed at the moment, though.. just more along the lines of 'blah'.. unmotivated, lacking passion for life. I usually feel better during the late spring/summer, and this year seems to be no exception. But it's kinda sad that being 'blah', as opposed to depressed, is the best I get.
I still struggle to maintain a good body composition; I look smooth and "wobbly", for lack of a better way to describe myself (lots of subcutanous fat and water retention; excess estrogen?), even though when I grab my abdomen, I can hardly pinch the flab; that is, when I'm standing up. I can even see my upper 2 abs that way, but when I sit down or hunch over, it's like a bunch of fat magically appears from nowhere, and all of a sudden I look like the Michelin man, if you get my meaning. I'm actually ashamed of the way I look, and don't feel like going to the beach or anything because of it. And that is pretty fucked up for someone who's been lifting weights and eating healthy for 4 years.
It's not body dysmorphic disorder, because I don't obsess over it every day, but more of a 'body disappointment disorder' and a feeling of apathy over the fact that I can't seem to change myself.
Also, even though people have commented that I look "fierce" and "masculine", when I look at my face, I just don't see any telltale signs of testosterone activity, apart from the goatee that I am capable of growing (what little hair I sprout on my cheeks is very fine and almost colorless, and my jaw has no strong angles or ruggedness). I think my facial features are too soft for a 22 year old man, but maybe I just have a warped image of myself.. I dunno.
Also.. I don't really get morning wood these days (it happens every now and then, but it's always so-so at best), and my erections are pretty weak if I'm not constantly training my PC muscle with kegels. My libido is also rather low. Forget once a day.. twice a week is more like it, and even then it's like "bah.. I could have done without that". Normal for a 22 year old man? Hardly.
Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm whining too much, but it's just that I feel I have missed out on life in every aspect and dimension for the past 8-9 years; in essence, all my teenage years, and my early 20s. All I've ever gotten from other people is: "take your zoloft and shut up", so I've finally concluded that I need to help myself out of this slump before any more time is wasted. Nobody else is going to do it for me.
I do hope that it doesn't come to TRT.. the less I need to rely on chemical assistance, the better, and I'm especially wary of anything and everything that needs to be taken for life once started.
Well, soon I'll find out if it's adrenal fatigue, and if it's not, then I'll hopefully find out something useful in the bloodtests.
Thanks for listening to me rant and rave, btw. It's great that I've found this forum; not because I want to use it as place to dump all my personal problems, but rather because it's a place where people understand where I'm coming from, and can give sound advice based on their own succesful treatment options.
I think you're being to hard on yourself, bro. I believe this may be your depression influencing the way you view yourself. You gotta believe this, man - You have a great physique. I can't believe you don't see this. I think a lot of guys on this site would kill for a body like that. You have great pecs and traps; you have nice definition in your delt area; your waste is TINY; your lats w/ the small waste gives you the classic "V" shape, etc., etc., etc. Start looking at all of this POSITIVE stuff and stop focusing on little nit-picky things.
This is not to say that you do not have problems, however. I believe you do...and it's not all in your head. You are totally correct - A 22 year old guy should not be having libido and ED issues. Even with my lousy 550 T (at your age), I was a walking hard-on, always got morning wood, etc. You might want to try Wellbutrin for a while. Some men say that it actually HELPS their libido and erection quality. Sometimes depression itself can cause these issues (i.e., you're so lethargic and depressed, you have no interest in sex and can't get it up if you tried). Curing the depression can sometimes HELP you regain interest in sex! Mind you, I'm just putting things out there. I'm not a doctor, and I don't know what's going on specifically with you. Just offering various things for your consideration.
I think you're doing the right thing re. seeing this doctor you spoke of. Tell him exactly what you'd like to have tested (in a nice way), and hopefully, he'll be a good guy and do it for you. Post your results on this board when you get them and let the guys have a look. There really are a LOT of guys on this site who are knowledgeable about hypogonadism/male hormonal issues, and I think you will get some good help. Good luck, man!
Mac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargovar
Mac, thanks for the words of support, man. They're very much appreciated.
I live in Finland, actually. I wish I knew of a knowledgeable doctor around here that specializes in male hormonal issues, but as far as I know, there are no such docs around. I mean sure, I could find someone to give me TRT.. all I'd need would be to go on a drastically reduced calorie diet for a while (I'm actually on a cutter right now, but I'm not going below 2500 calories/day, since I only seem to get progressively worse/burned out and deflate my muscles into nothingness if I try to go lower than that, as opposed to burning more fat). That should drive what little testosterone I'm producing right into the ground. Of course I wouldn't mention the reason for my testosterone plummet to my doc, and he'd prescribe something to me, being none the wiser.
In fact, I have a doctor's appointment for next week, and hopefully I'll get as comprehensive a blood profile done as possible. Since it's public healthcare, the doc may or may not cover everything I need to assess, but since I have a few trump cards up my sleeve, I'm sure I'll get most, if not all of it, covered. The good thing is, it won't cost me a dime since it's through the public sector.
I have tried various antidepressants over the years, but none of them seemed to do anything for me other than kill my already low sex drive, make me borderline impotent, and leave me feeling zombified. Others gave me horrible morning nausea. However, I've yet to try Wellbutrin, which seems to have a benign reputation as far as sexual/other side effects are concerned. I could consider myself giving it a shot.
I'm not terrible depressed at the moment, though.. just more along the lines of 'blah'.. unmotivated, lacking passion for life. I usually feel better during the late spring/summer, and this year seems to be no exception. But it's kinda sad that being 'blah', as opposed to depressed, is the best I get.
I still struggle to maintain a good body composition; I look smooth and "wobbly", for lack of a better way to describe myself (lots of subcutanous fat and water retention; excess estrogen?), even though when I grab my abdomen, I can hardly pinch the flab; that is, when I'm standing up. I can even see my upper 2 abs that way, but when I sit down or hunch over, it's like a bunch of fat magically appears from nowhere, and all of a sudden I look like the Michelin man, if you get my meaning. I'm actually ashamed of the way I look, and don't feel like going to the beach or anything because of it. And that is pretty fucked up for someone who's been lifting weights and eating healthy for 4 years.
It's not body dysmorphic disorder, because I don't obsess over it every day, but more of a 'body disappointment disorder' and a feeling of apathy over the fact that I can't seem to change myself.
Also, even though people have commented that I look "fierce" and "masculine", when I look at my face, I just don't see any telltale signs of testosterone activity, apart from the goatee that I am capable of growing (what little hair I sprout on my cheeks is very fine and almost colorless, and my jaw has no strong angles or ruggedness). I think my facial features are too soft for a 22 year old man, but maybe I just have a warped image of myself.. I dunno.
Also.. I don't really get morning wood these days (it happens every now and then, but it's always so-so at best), and my erections are pretty weak if I'm not constantly training my PC muscle with kegels. My libido is also rather low. Forget once a day.. twice a week is more like it, and even then it's like "bah.. I could have done without that". Normal for a 22 year old man? Hardly.
Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm whining too much, but it's just that I feel I have missed out on life in every aspect and dimension for the past 8-9 years; in essence, all my teenage years, and my early 20s. All I've ever gotten from other people is: "take your zoloft and shut up", so I've finally concluded that I need to help myself out of this slump before any more time is wasted. Nobody else is going to do it for me.
I do hope that it doesn't come to TRT.. the less I need to rely on chemical assistance, the better, and I'm especially wary of anything and everything that needs to be taken for life once started.
Well, soon I'll find out if it's adrenal fatigue, and if it's not, then I'll hopefully find out something useful in the bloodtests.
Thanks for listening to me rant and rave, btw. It's great that I've found this forum; not because I want to use it as place to dump all my personal problems, but rather because it's a place where people understand where I'm coming from, and can give sound advice based on their own succesful treatment options.
Gracias, mac. I dunno.. I may be too hard on myself, but that pic really represents what I look like semi flexed and standing up. Also, the day I took it I happened to be very 'dry', with no excess water retention.
But it's good to hear that you think I'm in decent shape.. puts things at least somewhat in perspective.
It's just that while I do look healthy, I don't really look like a weight lifter in my own eyes. Well.. I guess you can't build a weight lifter's physique with a testosterone level of 517.
I'm not too hung up on it, though, in spite of how I may have come across. All I want, really, is to feel healthy and energetic, and I'm pretty sure that if I get my testostereone & other hormones corrected, as well as treating possible adrenal deficiencies, the problem will be resolved.
Denada, Sargovar. Like I said, a lot of guys would kill to look like that, so do not despair. You are right, however. I think it IS difficult to build a weight lifter's physique with a T level of 517, but maybe not impossible. Don't give up. Keep doing what you're doing, and get your labs done. You might have a very easy case which could be cleared up in no time. You just don't know yet, but try not to worry about it. I'm hoping that if you get your hormones in check, your depression/brain fog could either diminish or disappear totally. I feel your pain. I go through periods of major brain fog, and it's definitely not fun. For the past couple of months, I've been on a new regimen, but frankly, I feel worse. So, obviously this is not working - Am looking forward to getting my 24-hour urinalysis results back. Can hardly wait to see how bad my numbers look! Okay, who is being negative now? I'm thinking the answer for me will be shots. I do not seem to do well on gels - I'm a human DHT and estrogen conversion plant! Strangely though, my E2 is low. (It's the other estrogens that are high.) Anyway, hang in there dude. Will let you know the results of my next labs.
Mac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargovar
Gracias, mac. I dunno.. I may be too hard on myself, but that pic really represents what I look like semi flexed and standing up. Also, the day I took it I happened to be very 'dry', with no excess water retention.
But it's good to hear that you think I'm in decent shape.. puts things at least somewhat in perspective.
It's just that while I do look healthy, I don't really look like a weight lifter in my own eyes. Well.. I guess you can't build a weight lifter's physique with a testosterone level of 517.
I'm not too hung up on it, though, in spite of how I may have come across. All I want, really, is to feel healthy and energetic, and I'm pretty sure that if I get my testostereone & other hormones corrected, as well as treating possible adrenal deficiencies, the problem will be resolved.
Yeah, that persistent brain fog definitely takes the fun outta life, huh? It's almost impossible to concentrate on anything for any length of time when it's really bad.. and everything feels dull, grey and lifeless. Probably something to do with serotonin or dopamine, which in turn might be part of a more pervasive, all encompassing problem.
Would be cool to see what turns up in your lab tests. Keep me posted!
Re: Depression, HPA axis, lowered testosterone levels? 
- - if anyone can help regarding needle-fear PM me...
All I want, really, is to feel healthy and energetic, and I'm pretty sure that if I get my testostereone & other hormones corrected, as well as treating possible adrenal deficiencies, the problem will be resolved.
Linear Mode
