Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on Does HCG effect libido? within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; ZKT,
What is your protocol like? Do you use HCG monotherapy, or botha as swale suggests? Also, what do you ...
What is your protocol like? Do you use HCG monotherapy, or botha as swale suggests? Also, what do you mean by the hcg affecting thyroid activiy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkt
Serum androgen levels certainly arent the whole story as far as libido and TRT goes. The whole body-brain chemistry and the myriad feedback mechanisms of all the hormones are involved. But the most contributory element is serum androgens.
I have been running my own TRT program and reading the posts on this board for 2 1/2 years now. I study the medical texts regarding basic, clinical, and endocrine psyiology as well as hypertension and clinical nephrology.
I fail to understand why you say that "You are limiting yourself with just HCG. HCG alone simply does not bring the benefits T does. Try it, you will see."
I one relys only on hcg then androgen receptor down- regulation is sure to follow eventually. I have used hcg excusively to the point of thyroid stimulation without loss of effectivness.
Regular small doses of hcg are essential for maintaining testicular mass. Got to feed the boys or they will go away from negative feedback.
Regarding the effectiveness of hcg as compared to T: It takes several large doses of hcg a few days apart to mimic the effect of regular T injections, assuming that one has the functioning Leydig cells to utilize the hcg in the first place. The only difference I have noticed is in the rapidity of change regarding hcg vs. T. T IM comes on like gangbusters and hcg creeps up slowly. This makes sense psyiologically as well.
The optimum proportion of T to hcg seems vary from individual to individual.
Any thoughts on Clomid?
What does your trt/hcg prtocol consist of if yiou don not mind sharing? Do you have any estrogen related proiblems due to your high dose of hcg? HIgh e2 KILLS my libido..
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC3
Put simply, I am already on TRT, and sometimes larger doses. HCG added makes me horney as hell!!! 500ius every few days just keeps me where I am constantly sniffing around the wife. But every now and then I will pop a 1500 - 2000 iu dose and I go through the roof...
FYI, if I run out, or neglect for a few weeks for whatever reason, my libido is gone and my wife is HAPPY!!!
Do you have low Estradiol levels doing this much HCG drives up Estradiol and if your low as it comes up your feel like this.
Or it's the spike in your levels doing this still it's not good to do this much to offten it will make you Primary.
The best respie is to get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your Estradiol at the best levels say 20 pg/ml.
Aftre a time doing this you body starts to undo any damage done by have low T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC3
Put simply, I am already on TRT, and sometimes larger doses. HCG added makes me horney as hell!!! 500ius every few days just keeps me where I am constantly sniffing around the wife. But every now and then I will pop a 1500 - 2000 iu dose and I go through the roof...
FYI, if I run out, or neglect for a few weeks for whatever reason, my libido is gone and my wife is HAPPY!!!
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Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Phil
When I am being "a good boy" and dosing properly... My t injections are once or twice a week totalling 200mgs/week aggregate max. This usually proves too much by the end of 12 weeks or so. I have never yet been able to tweek it down further as usually by this much time passing, I am ready to be "bad" again for a while. Hcg I go about once a week at 5-750ius. I could do a lot better by always separating my dose of T to twice a week, and getting the HCG down to 250 injecting EOD. This would provide optimal results for further tweak. To answer the question, my E2 is usually high or off the charts. I once tried controlling it with Adex, and did not get any notable response within one months dosing at 1mg EOD. I am not sure, but I believe the liquid Adex I got was poorly concentrated if any at all, regardless, I got discouraged. I think my only saving grace is the fact that my T tends to break down to DHT & E2 in a somewhat functional proportion. As far as my libido is concerned, I never ever seem to have a problem wanting sex. I always want it from my wife. I am thinking this is in part psychological. As far as erections are concerned I am definitely lacking morning wood lately, or a solid bone to get up longer than to blow a pathetic little nut. I am not the greatest "case data" to pull from as I have many other variables in play right now. But I am also speaking from past experience inclusive of test and HCG only protocol. I am really on the verge of cleaning up my act. It is going to begin with a documented attempt at an extensive PCT type therapy to try to see if I can return to my before supplementation status. It should prove interesting to say the least.
I agree with you that high E2 seems detrimental to my overall sexual performance. I have found large doses of HCG to increase hormones, but I think my DHT production goes up equally enough to somewhat balance, if not overcome at least for a brief period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terresw
BBC3,
What does your trt/hcg prtocol consist of if yiou don not mind sharing? Do you have any estrogen related proiblems due to your high dose of hcg? HIgh e2 KILLS my libido..
As I mentioned in prior post, I do believe my E2 remains pretty high and always out of optimal proportion. I am always extremely concerned about possible Leydig desensitization. I am getting extremely poor response from the last batch I purchased. It is the greek brand and certainly appears legit, however, I would def have to wonder based on the response I have been getting. I am wondering if that stuff is so delicate that it could have been damaged in the mail, via heat, or xray radiation. Have you ever heard of this??
Here is how I respond to HCG, perhaps you could offer some advice and insight. My first experience with HCG was after 8 weeks of continuous Testosterone supplementation(my first) in a steroid cycle fasion. The T doses ranged from 400/wk to as much as 800mgs/wk prior to this first dose. There was considerable atrophy starting to be evident by this eigth week. I dosed the HCG in (2) 2500iu doses 7-10 days apart. I got an excellent response and the boys blew up and hurt like blueballs. It was awesome. The "swollen" part lasted about 4 days tops, and then on with life and my high T doses for ten more weeks. Again the HCG always yielded the same. It was only in the past year that I started with the steady and small dosing philosophy or 750ius E3D, or even as steady and small as 250 EOD. I dont seem to get a response of the "swelling and sore" feeling so much like this, but I also think I dont suffer from the atrophy I should be incurring considering the high test protocol of the last year. So I dont really know. Perhaps its not the HCG and I just never did small doses with other batches?? I get frustrated from time to time on this protocol and blow it out to see if I am indeed at full testicular capacity. For example, about a month ago, I mixed a 5000iu into (3) doses. I administered them over a ten day period. (Again this is so that I can confirm full size already achieved when I cant be sure at regular dosing.) I dont get a response until the third dose and then I do still get the swelling and blueball like pain, and it lasts about 4 days. Can you help to explain this. Do I have to get all the way to that third dose because they are already close to normal capacity and it is hence taking more to get the reaction.?? Am I partially desisitized? or on the way? Keep in mind that on this last example, there was not signigicant increase in size resulting (as expected), But they did get full and firmer feeling with the slight pain of course. And as always it seems that most of the swelling is associated with "the goods" behind the balls. Portion associated with finished product sperm storage, handling, and delivery...?? Any thoughts please. Does this all sound like a normal healthy response. And should I not feel anything when taking regularly..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
Do you have low Estradiol levels doing this much HCG drives up Estradiol and if your low as it comes up your feel like this.
Or it's the spike in your levels doing this still it's not good to do this much to offten it will make you Primary.
The best respie is to get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your Estradiol at the best levels say 20 pg/ml.
Aftre a time doing this you body starts to undo any damage done by have low T.
Too much hcg doesnt kill anything: it down-regulates the LH receptors in the Leydig cells (decreases their numbers) and will auto correct over time at lower stimulation (hcg and LH) levels. The body adjusts the receptor activity to match the stimulation level.
Arimidex is a lot more likely cause damage to the cardiovascular system thru excessive and unwarranted use . There is a reason that pre-menopausal women have a lower incidence of heart attacks than men and after menopause the rates are similar. Clinical studies indicate that estrogen is cardiovascular protective. Supressing E for the sake of a tiny increase in T is foolish.
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Better Living Thru Understanding Biochemistry
Too much hcg doesnt kill anything: it down-regulates the LH receptors in the Leydig cells (decreases their numbers) and will auto correct over time at lower stimulation (hcg and LH) levels. The body adjusts the receptor activity to match the stimulation level.
zkt, is there any real evidence to suggest that overuse of HCG causes or does not cause PERMANENT primary hypogonadism?
Obvoiusly it is a risky experiment to conduct.
zkt, is there any real evidence to suggest that overuse of HCG causes or does not cause PERMANENT primary hypogonadism?
Obvoiusly it is a risky experiment to conduct.
I would not count out the possibility of leydig cell desensitization. Dr. Shippen, Dr. Scally, and Dr. John all agree that too much HCG for too long can cause desensitization to occur.
Re: Does HCG effect libido? 
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