Estrogen dominance and fat loss

[wildfox]

So I'm on TRT (Androgel & Hcg) and it helps, but despite my clean diet and exercising 3-5 days a week, I can't manage to go below 185# and about 21% BF.

It's really frustrating. The various theories on what's best: lot's of cardio (my doctor's suggestion) or weight lifting, well they just have me confused.

I would like input from men that have lost fat and seen that improve their hormone profiles. I'm about 5'9 and would like to lose another 15 pounds of fat and keep as much muscle as possible.

What has worked for you guys? Please report from your personal experience. I've read a ton of sites and boards out there. I really would like to know what diet/workout have complemented your TRT to help you get better.

Thanks.

[zkt]

I could post up a lot of stuff about caloric intake vs requirements. Bottom line is if you eat more than you need it goes into either muscle or fat. Simple carbs like potatoe chips are more readily metabolized than complex ones like whole grains, beans, oats.The ratio of cortisol to dhea determines if your metabolism is anabolic or catabolic also. There are adrenal problems that can cause weight gain too. Ever thought about clen?
Hope this helps but if not at least Ive gotten some typing practice in.

[wildfox]

Ephedrine causes erection problems for me. Isn't clenbuterol similar to ephedrine? Would it cause similar problems?

Thanks for the response. I'd like to read more about cortisolHEA ratios and the anabolic/catabolic balance, if you have any links.

Thanks.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by wildfox

So I'm on TRT (Androgel & Hcg) and it helps, but despite my clean diet and exercising 3-5 days a week, I can't manage to go below 185# and about 21% BF.

It's really frustrating. The various theories on what's best: lot's of cardio (my doctor's suggestion) or weight lifting, well they just have me confused.

I would like input from men that have lost fat and seen that improve their hormone profiles. I'm about 5'9 and would like to lose another 15 pounds of fat and keep as much muscle as possible.

What has worked for you guys? Please report from your personal experience. I've read a ton of sites and boards out there. I really would like to know what diet/workout have complemented your TRT to help you get better.

Thanks.

flameout
http://www.t-nation.com/category.jsp...ftNavStoreLink
http://www.t-nation.com/portal_inclu...eoutFacts.html
DHA 2,200 mg **
EPA 880 mg **
CLA t10,c12 212 mg **
CLA c9,t11 140 mg **

[zkt]

Got a shipload of links on all kinds of medical subuects. Unfortunatly the ones that are named so that the content is obvious are on the other computer- the one that crashed and I havent gotten around to fixing yet. All I got in this is a list of who knows what . Things that I was googleing and thought worth saving. Heres onehttp://www.drrind.com/adrensupport.asp
might be relavent donno.clenbuterol is very similar to albuterol. At the bottom of the page herehttp://www.united-pharmacy.com/ are a list of links to good info on some drugs(clen). You not fat only around the waist are you ? Thats an adrenal problem fer sore. Google adrenal , hpa axis, aldosterone, cortisol.

[plymouth city]

Originally Posted by JanSz

flameout
http://www.t-nation.com/category.jsp...ftNavStoreLink
http://www.t-nation.com/portal_inclu...eoutFacts.html
DHA 2,200 mg **
EPA 880 mg **
CLA t10,c12 212 mg **
CLA c9,t11 140 mg **

Yeppers. Stack that bad boy with this - http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1066793 and you will be a fat burning machine.

What is your E2 level? If it is elevated, that will hinder fat loss, especially around the love handle/mid section, were all those nasty estrogen receptors are located. We could also add in 100mg of DIM EOD from here - http://www.ultimatemedresearch.com/drnickdelgado.html, then apply a 7mg nicotine patch on each side of stomach on love handle(Nicotine is a potent AI, and applying it to love handle area will target specific areas where stubborn E receptors are located) and you can attack E from two areas, from the inside and from the out.

Once you get adjusted, if you feel you can handle it, up that DIM to every day and bump that patch to 14mg each side. This cycle will be one badass homemade fat loss/AI product, so don't stay on it long. I would say a 4 week cycle followed with a week off, repeat if necessary.

[The_Skeptic]

Originally Posted by plymouth city

Yeppers. Stack that bad boy with this - http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1066793 and you will be a fat burning machine.

What is your E2 level? If it is elevated, that will hinder fat loss, especially around the love handle/mid section, were all those nasty estrogen receptors are located. We could also add in 100mg of DIM EOD from here - http://www.ultimatemedresearch.com/drnickdelgado.html, then apply a 7mg nicotine patch on each side of stomach on love handle(Nicotine is a potent AI, and applying it to love handle area will target specific areas where stubborn E receptors are located) and you can attack E from two areas, from the inside and from the out.

Once you get adjusted, if you feel you can handle it, up that DIM to every day and bump that patch to 14mg each side. This cycle will be one badass homemade fat loss/AI product, so don't stay on it long. I would say a 4 week cycle followed with a week off, repeat if necessary.

I never heard about nicotine patches being able to burn fat. Has anyone else tried this?

[wildfox]

Thanks for the suggestions. I take it these are things that have worked for you who shared.

I can't take anything with Yohimbe, it makes my blood pressure and anxiety go way up.

Nicoderm patches sound interesting. I am not a smoker. I wonder if I'd get hooked. Any threat of cancer with that stuff? Gotta read more about this.

I'll be getting E2 and other numbers soon (blood drawn this morning).

[xxxbulldog]

Wake up at 5:00 am... Get to the gym and do 30 minutes of hard aerobics preferably the elliptical at level 12 to 14 with a stroke per minute count of 100 or higher...Push harder each day. After that hit a gut busting ab workout doing upper, Lower, and obliques on different days. At home later,
7:00 or so....1/2 c oatmeal with whey protein + multivitamin...

Get ready for work and go...

10:00... 6 egg whites packed in a ziploc with a cup of green tea.

1:00 pm 1 or 2 tilapia filets with mixed vegetables...

3:00 pm 1or 2 tilapia filets or 8oz turkey...With mixed vegetables..

5:00 pm MRF Drink er down and head back to the gym....Hit one to 3 body parts hard....Then strap on some running shoes and run 4 miles at 8:00 minutes per mile or less...Prefer outside.

800 pm... More Tilapia, Turkey or Chicken breast and a salad plain with steamed vegetables...I like collard greens and spinach boiled in fat free chicken broth with tofu added...

10:00 pm Protein Drink....Water and skim milk mixed with casein or whey....

Go to bed...Do the same thing the next day....and the next....and the next....Don't train like a pussy and don't skip workouts or meals....Push hard and stop relying on supplements, no drugs =no problems...They will never replace hard work. Follow this regimine for 16 weeks...Yea it takes a long time...Take a week off then hit it again....

What?? You thought it was easy?

[cwoody123]

below

[cwoody123]

Estrogen raises serum thyroxine-binding globulin which in turn lowers your active T3 which lowers your metabolic rate. so yes high estrogen can have a very real effect on losing weight. Advocating a low carb diet will only increase thyroid problems as Glucagon also affects Thyroid negativly.

I suggest you get your Estrogen levels checked and if high put straight, also check: TSH, T3, T4 to make sure there are no thyroid issues.

By all means diet and train but don't over do things and certainly don't cut back on carbs.

[wildfox]

Originally Posted by cwoody123

Estrogen raises serum thyroxine-binding globulin which in turn lowers your active T3 which lowers your metabolic rate. so yes high estrogen can have a very real effect on losing weight. Advocating a low carb diet will only increase thyroid problems as Glucagon also affects Thyroid negativly.

I suggest you get your Estrogen levels checked and if high put straight, also check: TSH, T3, T4 to make sure there are no thyroid issues.

By all means diet and train but don't over do things and certainly don't cut back on carbs.

Thanks. I should know my E2 numbers by next week when I talk to the doctor. Didn't know that about low carb diets. I guess they'd work ok for people on stimulants or who are hormonally healthy to begin with. I was thinking about a "timed-carb" diet.

I appreciate the workout suggestion above. Sounds good. Fortunately my treadmill is in the basement, don't have to go to a gym.

[griffinannie]

zkt, can you provide more information on the cortisol dhes ratio....that is of great interest to me

[zkt]

As I recall, metabolism can go two ways- catabolic and anabolic. Catabolism breaks fat and muscle down to their constituants- llipids and amino acids respectively. Anabolic proceese build adipose tissue ( fat) from lipids and muscle from proteins.Both are going on all the time. The level of cortisol determines the level of catabolic activity and dhea and its metabolites ,DHtT and T, the amount of anabolic activity. Most people here seem to understand the factors determining T. The DHEA biosynthesis ind cortisol synthesis is a little more comlicated and involves ACTH secretion from the pituitary acting upon the adrenal glands, causing cholesterol to be synthesized into cortisol, dhea and corticosterone. All three are involved in a negative feedback loop which supresses acth secretion. Cortisol increases in response to stress and many other factors. Have no idea what increases dhea biosynthesis. Its is actually more compicated than this because the hypothalmus is also involved in producing CRH which acts to increase acth secretion in the pituitary. This is a good in depth introduction http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/~fulton...s%20Physio.pdf
hope this helps

[plymouth city]

Love all of your suggestions except one - I am not a fan of any type of isolation work to the abs/obliques. Remember, work a muscle = it grows. I dunno about you guys, but I like having as slender as a waist as possible. Hit the abs hard and you will have a thicker, blocky torso.

Your abs should be getting all the direct work they need by squatting, deads, pulls and such.

You can not get abs or lose weight by doing ab work. You get abs by losing the BF that covers them. Everyone has a six pack, some can see theirs and some can't

Originally Posted by xxxbulldog

Wake up at 5:00 am... Get to the gym and do 30 minutes of hard aerobics preferably the elliptical at level 12 to 14 with a stroke per minute count of 100 or higher...Push harder each day. After that hit a gut busting ab workout doing upper, Lower, and obliques on different days. At home later,
7:00 or so....1/2 c oatmeal with whey protein + multivitamin...

Get ready for work and go...

10:00... 6 egg whites packed in a ziploc with a cup of green tea.

1:00 pm 1 or 2 tilapia filets with mixed vegetables...

3:00 pm 1or 2 tilapia filets or 8oz turkey...With mixed vegetables..

5:00 pm MRF Drink er down and head back to the gym....Hit one to 3 body parts hard....Then strap on some running shoes and run 4 miles at 8:00 minutes per mile or less...Prefer outside.

800 pm... More Tilapia, Turkey or Chicken breast and a salad plain with steamed vegetables...I like collard greens and spinach boiled in fat free chicken broth with tofu added...

10:00 pm Protein Drink....Water and skim milk mixed with casein or whey....

Go to bed...Do the same thing the next day....and the next....and the next....Don't train like a pussy and don't skip workouts or meals....Push hard and stop relying on supplements, no drugs =no problems...They will never replace hard work. Follow this regimine for 16 weeks...Yea it takes a long time...Take a week off then hit it again....

What?? You thought it was easy?