Gels Versus Cypionate - MESO-Rx

smitty4 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 10:52 AM

From reading in various forums, it appears that most men who have tried both gels and Cypionate seem to prefer weekly injections of Cypionate. It seems to me that the gels would provide more consistent daily T levels. It also seems that applying gel in the morning would allow one to more closely imitate the natural rhythm of higher levels in the morning that taper a little at night.

Is this a matter of gels being more inconvenient? Is it a matter of one being able to obtain higher T levels with Cypionate than with gels? Is this preference for Cypionate something I am imagining?

1cc · #2 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 12:17 PM

Transdermals are better than shots for the reasons you mentioned.

For me using shots was more convenient because I didn't have to worry about transferring to family members. Shots however did not work out for me because I didn't get a good DHT conversion from it. For this reason I am currently using a T Cream.

smitty4 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 01:12 PM

In addition to worrying about transferring to family members, do you ever worry about sweating after you apply the cream? I tried a compounded cream years ago and didn't have much success. My labs actually went below my baseline. I got to where I worried about sweating having a negative impact on absorption. I finally decided that maybe my skin just didn't absorb the cream.

SailorJim · #4 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 01:55 PM

I am one who switched from Androgel to cypionate. I did this when I began treatment at Cenegenics. Cenegenics docs won't prescribe topical test.

I had strange results on Androgel. Taking 5 gm per day, if I got tested the day of application, anywhere between 2 and 7 hrs after application, I tested at about 900 total T. If I did not apply Androgel the day of the draw, I tested at about 200 total T, even if the blood was drawn within 26 hours of the last Androgel application.

So I never knew what my true level was. Was it 900 or 200 or something in between? I also don't know what is important - the peak level, the low point or the average level. My own experience (and this was confirmed with several tests) did not correspond with the info in the prescribing information for Androgel which shows a relatively small peak in the two to four hour range and then a flat level out to 24 hours after application.

Cenegenics doctors don't prescribe topical T for two reasons. One, they feel that the absorption rates are unknown. Evidently they can vary from individual to individual, but also from day to day with the same individual. If you inject the T you know exactly how much is being administered. The second reason they don't prescribe topical T is the high rate of conversion to DHT with topicals.

I only began injecting two weeks ago and I have made a number of other lifestyle changes in that time so I can't tell you if there is any effect on how I feel. And I have not had a blood test since switching.

1cc · #5 (**permalink**) 06-16-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty4

In addition to worrying about transferring to family members, do you ever worry about sweating after you apply the cream?

I use a high concentration 10% T cream (100mg/gram). I only apply a 1/4 of 1 gram of cream (a small amount) to the hairless inner bicep area of 1 bicep and alternmate biceps every day. I have not experienced a problem so far. I can imagine this could be a problem if it was rubbed elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty4

I tried a compounded cream years ago and didn't have much success. My labs actually went below my baseline. I got to where I worried about sweating having a negative impact on absorption. I finally decided that maybe my skin just didn't absorb the cream.

Perhaps you would have better results with a high concentration T cream as described above, but ultimately one needs to use what works for them.

Sunkist · #6 (**permalink**) 06-18-2006, 09:18 PM

I think implants would be the best venue of application, but I have never tried them. One would have the best of both worlds: natural testosterone and no way of having a child get any of it.

I use 10% creme as 1cc does. It is my opinion that this best maintains reasonably constant levels and can be timed to get the rhythms pretty close to natural if one splits the dosages in two. I did do 2 months of androgel a few years ago and that was about useless and expensive.

With the addition of 4-andro and DHEA also transdermal, I am keeping my morning draws at around 1000TT with 3% free.

srch4info · #7 (**permalink**) 06-18-2006, 10:58 PM

I use 5G Androgel and have a very specific application process I use that gives me relatively quick & easy application: I shower in the AM and use a loofah style sponge to rub the dead skin from by back, arms and shoulders, which is my application site... within minutes of getting out of the shower I put the gel on my shoulder, arm and back... it doesn't run, it absorbs and dries quickly and I get no white residue... the few times I have had to change this and put the gel on a dry arm, its runs and drips if I am not careful... very different and not as convenient.

On a different note I actually haven't had a great DHT conversion but about 30 days ago I added HCG so I will be doing labs soon to see where I am now...

masterpp · #8 (**permalink**) 06-19-2006, 08:08 AM

just a couple of quickies about test cyp.
1. what are the dht conversion rates like of the shots (ie with regards to hairloss)
2. how easy is it to inject, is it as easy as hcg
3. what is the storage/mixing procedure.
4. why is it considered the best of the shots (ie why not encanth or one of the others)
cheers

also id be quite keen to try some of the shots, but my endo doesnt administer them and i cant be bothered to go through the whole process of finding a new endo. is a site where i can purchase test cyp from without getting arrested.

cheers

novice · #9 (**permalink**) 06-20-2006, 02:11 PM

Shots are less likely to cause hairloss. Very easy to inject....similar to HCG just IM instead of subq. No mixing and store at room temp. Ethanate is pretty commonly prescribed too, but I believe they use these because they are long acting, so less injections:-/

Sunkist · #10 (**permalink**) 06-20-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novice

Shots are less likely to cause hairloss. :-/

Do you have a study on that? Just anecdotally I would think the opposite. I would reason that the greater fluctuation of T levels from parenterals would increase DHT formation in the scalp when the higher T levels occur. Transdermals should have a steady state or approximately steady state T level in the blood stream. The DHT that causes hair loss is primarily formed in the scalp, and is not just from circulating DHT.