HCG - Complete Confusion (everything at hand)

[Megazoid]

I would like to give you a very special thank's to everyone that replied to my original message regarding HCG, so far i've built up a great deal of knowledge on the drug but just want to confirm a few things. I have alot of questions, but just trying to build up the right knowledged to go ahead with this.

Please keep in mind that it's near impossible for me to get blood test's or ANY help from the doctor's here due to the terrible health system and the dreaded (as JustOne says) lab ranges.

So sadly for me I am suffering at the hand's of Scotland's (UK) doctor's who simply put you on anti-depressents and say you have no problem with hormones. I witnessed all these effects happening to me and just want to get thing's back to normal now, it's sad when on one believes you either. Varicoceles caused testicular dysfunction, not so much with the leydig cells but with the bad blood flow, low t is also contributing to the weaker blood flow not helping my balls heal.

I have heard so much about HCG that's all becoming a bit confusing now. Some people say never run it for more than 3 weeks due to the risks, other's say inject it subq while others prefer IM, some say 100/125iu isn't enough daily, which other's are fine with 75iu!

The non-elevated LH/FSH values are a good sign that no damage has occured at this stage, getting the ball(s) back into size is the key here.

1) I considered running a large dosage of HCG at one time but didn't want to suffer from E2 problems and didn't want to risk leydig cell desensitization. I was warned on various forums to not go above 500iu a day. I don't want to risk making myself primary, simply because the doctor's overhere would be useless at helping me in that situation. My original plan was to prepare 14 Syringes with 100/125iu a day and store them in a fridge and use them over a period of 2 weeks. I was hoping 700iu a week would be enough to restore testicular health. I had 6
'potential' protocols considered:

- 100iu HCG Daily (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 250iu HCG every mon-wed-fri (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 500iu HCG Twice weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 500iu HCG Three times weekly (3 weeks?) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 1000iu HCG Twice weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 1000iu HCG Once weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine

The glutamine is to help optimize IGF-1 levels and keep everything in shape while running the HCG.

One of my other considerations/fears is that i don't want to risk complete HPTA shutdown (My LH/FSH are in the normal range right now). What will happen when i inject the HCG? Will my pituitary stop sending out LH/FSH signals straight away? How long will it take to restart?

Is their always a risk that my levels could go alot lower than they are current (they go somewhere between 12 /20nmol depending on blood flow to the whole testicular area).

2) My prolactin is low/normal right now, dosen't look like i have any problems in this area and orgasms/ejaculation are intense and good, however erections are difficult and this is something i want to fix with regards to testosterone issues. What would you recommend for controlling
and keeping prolactin levels low? How will the HCG effect prolactin levels?

3) I was scared to run Nolvadex/Clomid for the liver side effects and also the risk of blood clotting and IGF-1 distrubances. I know these would keep down E2 but not sure if ZMA + DIM would keep it low enough?

4) Will HCG effect thyroid in anyway (TSH for example)? My TSH is sitting good at 1.4 right now (it went from 0.5 before low t to 1.4).

5) Is IM or SubQ best?

I have the following:

1500iu HCG (3 amps + solvent)
Alcholal swabes (full pack - 200)
Insulin Syringes + Needles (1ml - 29g x 12,7mm)
Nolvadex (20mg - in case of HPTA/E2 problems)
Clomid (50mg - 50 pills - as with above)
ZMA, DIM, Vitiams, glutamine, etc.
2 boxes of androlgel/testim (in case of serious problems and TRT is needed)

Any advice would be great and thank's again for all the help guy's, i am going to get through this.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

I would like to give you a very special thank's to everyone that replied to my original message regarding HCG, so far i've built up a great deal of knowledge on the drug but just want to confirm a few things. I have alot of questions, but just trying to build up the right knowledged to go ahead with this.

Please keep in mind that it's near impossible for me to get blood test's or ANY help from the doctor's here due to the terrible health system and the dreaded (as JustOne says) lab ranges.

So sadly for me I am suffering at the hand's of Scotland's (UK) doctor's who simply put you on anti-depressents and say you have no problem with hormones. I witnessed all these effects happening to me and just want to get thing's back to normal now, it's sad when on one believes you either. Varicoceles caused testicular dysfunction, not so much with the leydig cells but with the bad blood flow, low t is also contributing to the weaker blood flow not helping my balls heal.

I have heard so much about HCG that's all becoming a bit confusing now. Some people say never run it for more than 3 weeks due to the risks, other's say inject it subq while others prefer IM, some say 100/125iu isn't enough daily, which other's are fine with 75iu!

The non-elevated LH/FSH values are a good sign that no damage has occured at this stage, getting the ball(s) back into size is the key here.

1) I considered running a large dosage of HCG at one time but didn't want to suffer from E2 problems and didn't want to risk leydig cell desensitization. I was warned on various forums to not go above 500iu a day. I don't want to risk making myself primary, simply because the doctor's overhere would be useless at helping me in that situation. My original plan was to prepare 14 Syringes with 100/125iu a day and store them in a fridge and use them over a period of 2 weeks. I was hoping 700iu a week would be enough to restore testicular health. I had 6
'potential' protocols considered:

- 100iu HCG Daily (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 250iu HCG every mon-wed-fri (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 500iu HCG Twice weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 500iu HCG Three times weekly (3 weeks?) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 1000iu HCG Twice weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine
- 1000iu HCG Once weekly (6 weeks) alongside ZMA + DIM + glutamine

The glutamine is to help optimize IGF-1 levels and keep everything in shape while running the HCG.

One of my other considerations/fears is that i don't want to risk complete HPTA shutdown (My LH/FSH are in the normal range right now). What will happen when i inject the HCG? Will my pituitary stop sending out LH/FSH signals straight away? How long will it take to restart?

Is their always a risk that my levels could go alot lower than they are current (they go somewhere between 12 /20nmol depending on blood flow to the whole testicular area).

2) My prolactin is low/normal right now, dosen't look like i have any problems in this area and orgasms/ejaculation are intense and good, however erections are difficult and this is something i want to fix with regards to testosterone issues. What would you recommend for controlling
and keeping prolactin levels low? How will the HCG effect prolactin levels?

3) I was scared to run Nolvadex/Clomid for the liver side effects and also the risk of blood clotting and IGF-1 distrubances. I know these would keep down E2 but not sure if ZMA + DIM would keep it low enough?

4) Will HCG effect thyroid in anyway (TSH for example)? My TSH is sitting good at 1.4 right now (it went from 0.5 before low t to 1.4).
5) Is IM or SubQ best?

I have the following:

1500iu HCG (3 amps + solvent)
Alcholal swabes (full pack - 200)
Insulin Syringes + Needles (1ml - 29g x 12,7mm)
Nolvadex (20mg - in case of HPTA/E2 problems)
Clomid (50mg - 50 pills - as with above)
ZMA, DIM, Vitiams, glutamine, etc.
2 boxes of androlgel/testim (in case of serious problems and TRT is needed)
Any advice would be great and thank's again for all the help guy's, i am going to get through this.

Since you cannot have a blood tests but are haveing orgasms;
My take
HCG daily 100Iu or better up to 400IUdaily for a year or more, (Shippen just changed/increased daily dose).
Isocort or Corteff up to 20mg daily (when need arise using Armour)
Armour Thyroid up to about 2 grains daily (carefully/gradully get to your max dose).
Stop Armour when yout temp is steady 36.6C
Slow down or stop on Armour increases when your resting heart beat reaches 80 bpm.
My opinion w/o scientific support.
Without blood test you are blind in regard to T, DHT, E2

[keaster]

Youre messing yourself up. Clomid/nolva is not the choice to keep e2 down. You would need an AI.


I agree with the above. Youre going in blind. You should have waited for the appropriate time frame to pass. I dont know what you expect people to say. When people try to help you or have different opinions you pull out all this scientific sounding stuff and bascially shoot them down. Why. I dont think anyone agrees with your self treatment. Most are just trying to help so you dont royally fuck yourself up.

What happenswhen something unexpected happens and you end up crashing. Youre gonna use two months of androgel. Then what? What happens when you grow tits from not properly controlling estrogen.

[Megazoid]

how can i be messing myself up if thing's can't possibly get worse? I am getting zero help from doctor's here, i have tried god dam everything and still no further forward, i do not want to accept that i need TRT for life.

[Megazoid]

I will order more androgel. I am sick of this shit.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Megazoid

how can i be messing myself up if thing's can't possibly get worse? I am getting zero help from doctor's here, i have tried god dam everything and still no further forward, i do not want to accept that i need TRT for life.

I suggest that you make sure that you have a blood tests,
all that are applicable and from unquestionable laboratory.
I see that you are able to secure any medication that you may need.
You are also quite aware of the applicable science.
Recheck your mental state, work on it.
I do not see much of a problem when you will self medicate,
just do not do it blindly.
Unfortunately our senses are not good indicators and blood tests are must.
.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am guessing that all you need is HCG.
That should make the testi going, natural T should not screw up your DHT and E2, I guess.
You should be good to go, just on HCG.
.

[KidCapriB]

KEEP IN MIND...YOU RUN HCG TOO LONG, YOURE FINISHED! . Theres no going back, no hope, no nothing left once you run HCG too long you will be PRIMARY hypogonadal with no hope of a natural recovery. Is it really worth it? You could easily listen to your doctors and wait the extra month and a half to see what happens, and possible avoid any of this. Honestly, you're being self destructive...

[dano79]

Originally Posted by KidCapriB

KEEP IN MIND...YOU RUN HCG TOO LONG, YOURE FINISHED! . Theres no going back, no hope, no nothing left once you run HCG too long you will be PRIMARY hypogonadal with no hope of a natural recovery. Is it really worth it? You could easily listen to your doctors and wait the extra month and a half to see what happens, and possible avoid any of this. Honestly, you're being self destructive...

I don't understand what you mean by that one is "finished" I thought you can use HCG indefinatly. Are you trying to say that all of the secondary hypo patients out their with pituitarty problems can only use HCG for a certain lengnth of time?

The idea that HCG can be used for too long seems a bit extreme to me. And I also unterstand what Megazoid is going through. We all should. I'm just starting out on an HCG treatment only too. and I want to learn about it as much as possible. I am under a doctors care, and have regular blood tests. But knowlede is the greatest power.

[Andrew Androgen]

KidCapri does not know his ass from his elbow. HCG in low doses can be taken indefinitely without deleterious effects. Only high doses for long periods of time have been found to be dangerous.

[JackBauer]

I believe Dr. Shippen has said that he has had someone on hCG for 8-12 years. (I forget which was the correct number, but it was a long time...)