Men's Health Forum: This is a discussion on help for my CFS within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Originally Posted by DAVID
Thank you so much for all informations, I learn a lot. Many good physician don't tell ...
Thank you so much for all informations, I learn a lot. Many good physician don't tell me that about High brain SOD. My HDL is 40 low normal bordeline.
But why my Vit E is high ? May be from excessive lipid peroxidation !!! Physician said for me don't take vit E because you have to much.
Vitamin E is not being ultizes because of low selenium or possible iodine. in order to find defieincy you need to stop all supplements dor 3 days prior or they will be giving false elevation in serum. Look into spectracell labs WBC testing it will show a different pics and diet or supplements will not affect results. Excessive zinc or copper, dhea deficiency will cause low HDL. testosterone/ estrogen will also increase it as well
Low HDL look for insulin inbalances (hypoglycemia. or insulin resistance), low testosterone, fatty liver (liver congestion)
What was your total cholesterol and LDL was it low ?
Vitamin E is not being ultizes because of low selenium or possible iodine. in order to find defieincy you need to stop all supplements dor 3 days prior or they will be giving false elevation in serum. Look into spectracell labs WBC testing it will show a different pics and diet or supplements will not affect results. Excessive zinc or copper, dhea deficiency will cause low HDL. testosterone/ estrogen will also increase it as well
Low HDL look for insulin inbalances (hypoglycemia. or insulin resistance), low testosterone, fatty liver (liver congestion)
What was your total cholesterol and LDL was it low ?
My LDL and total cholesterol is normal. I have a good diet but I eat maybe to much fat (nuts, coconut and eggs).
Do you have a good suggestion to find a great book or web about detoxification or pathophysiology of CFS (orthomolecualr medecine) ?
Thank you it's excellent, very very good article. Hardasnails do you have CFS before ?
There is abundant and compelling evidence that the glutathione depletion—methylation cycle block mechanism is an important part of the pathogenesis for at least a substantial subset of chronic fatigue syndrome patients.
Thank you again Hardanails because you're are open my brain about CFS and glutathione depletion—methylation cycle.
I do some research about brain acetycholine, because every time I take supplement or drug that increase acetycholine I feel bad and depress. The second point that I have no problem with bodybuilding exercice but I can't train in aerobic endurance. When I run I have pain in my leg and my leg like very heavy. I think that I have DNAmitochondria insult
.
"Four magnetic resonance spectroscopy studies in CFS (21-24) have found elevated choline-to-creatine ratios in various parts of the brain. Both choline and creatine arise partly from the diet and partly from synthesis in the body. Since the syntheses of these two substances are the main users of methylation (7), a methylation deficit would be expected to decrease the rate of synthesis of both of them, and hence to decrease their levels in the cells. When this occurred, it would be unlikely that their ratio would remain the same, since the fractions of each supplied by synthesis would not likely be the same, nor would the decrease in rates of synthesis of these two substances likely to be proportional to their levels in the cells. Since creatine synthesis is the greater user of methylation (7), it might be expected that the choline-to-creatine ratio would increase, as is observed. It therefore appears that a methylation cycle block could explain this well-replicated observation in CFS."
Thank you it's excellent, very very good article. Hardasnails do you have CFS before ?
There is abundant and compelling evidence that the glutathione depletion—methylation cycle block mechanism is an important part of the pathogenesis for at least a substantial subset of chronic fatigue syndrome patients.
Thank you again Hardanails because you're are open my brain about CFS and glutathione depletion—methylation cycle.
I do some research about brain acetycholine, because every time I take supplement or drug that increase acetycholine I feel bad and depress. The second point that I have no problem with bodybuilding exercice but I can't train in aerobic endurance. When I run I have pain in my leg and my leg like very heavy. I think that I have DNAmitochondria insult
.
"Four magnetic resonance spectroscopy studies in CFS (21-24) have found elevated choline-to-creatine ratios in various parts of the brain. Both choline and creatine arise partly from the diet and partly from synthesis in the body. Since the syntheses of these two substances are the main users of methylation (7), a methylation deficit would be expected to decrease the rate of synthesis of both of them, and hence to decrease their levels in the cells. When this occurred, it would be unlikely that their ratio would remain the same, since the fractions of each supplied by synthesis would not likely be the same, nor would the decrease in rates of synthesis of these two substances likely to be proportional to their levels in the cells. Since creatine synthesis is the greater user of methylation (7), it might be expected that the choline-to-creatine ratio would increase, as is observed. It therefore appears that a methylation cycle block could explain this well-replicated observation in CFS."
Have you ever had your creatiine urine levels checked ?
I beleive this is the core of CFS and its interrealship with gluthione just open up so many doors to possiblilty of managements
I beleive that stress triggers a mutuation in the methione synthase pathways as well as more so the mthff reductase, as well the Metallothionein. These three are all interlinked because when one goes down they all go down. And it has been determined that people that have engaged in high competiive evernts are more likely to show depression 10-15 years down the road due to the metabolic stress that was building up in side of them and not even knowing. Which are enhancing these mutations plus the stress of todays society and pressures. All paxil, proscac does is a bandaid for artifically increasing methylation and tricking the body into doing somthing that its not. By balancing a freinds liver pathway I brought her back in 4 months to her old self and I remember that ahe was atending grad school and told them that she may not make it because she was in so much pain. I examed her problem and identified what was going on with her made proper adjusmtents and now she is 50 lbs lighter, back in school and living life as she was before. She asked me how long it would take and I told her 4-6 months becuase liver has to shed and regenerate the cells and its been 6 mnths and she is depression free off adrenal medication, and just taking armout thyroid and her sam-e and she is happy as can be...She has poinsoned with petrocholate which lowers t4 levels and also cloggs up the conjugation pathways in the liver which gluthione runs off of and Sam-e increases . We had to go easy on the sam-e untill she had her b-12 folic acids levels built up other wise she had increased anxiety. Started her loading folic/ b-12 and then increasing the samm-e slowly and with in a few weeks her moods imporoved her strgnth went up and she ws able to get out of bed and start walking...She told me 6 months ago that she felt like she was going to die now she is in school and exercsing every day and she plains on running NYC marathon by june ..
stress (phyiscal mental, enviormental, chemical) > under methylation of the liver > reduce gltuhione> reduces Metallothionein > leads to zinc deficency / possible copper over load> thryoid /adrenal imbalacne > impairs immune system, endocrine problems, insulin imbalances, neurological deviation (serotonin, dopamine, ect)
Its rather simple but drs do not futher investigate things
low/ low normal uric acids
identify copper toxcitiy
need vitamin C, molydbenum,
undermethytors
(uric acid is directly proporptional to homocystein levels),
need sam-e, coenzyme q10,
, avoid sulfur based foods, and taruine, NAC,
have low cholesterol, ldh, trigycerides
low inuslin levels
low homocysteine
more prone to seasonal depressions
avoid niacin
high uric acid-
need more copper,
less moybdenum,
lower dosages of C,
need b-12, folic acid, b-6, NAC,
High inuslin
mainly insulin resistance
high homocysteine
Last edited by hardasnails1973; 02-24-2007 at 09:13 AM.
I beleive that stress triggers a mutuation in the methione synthase pathways as well as more so the mthff reductase, as well the Metallothionein. These three are all interlinked because when one goes down they all go down. And it has been determined that people that have engaged in high competiive evernts are more likely to show depression 10-15 years down the road due to the metabolic stress that was building up in side of them and not even knowing. Which are enhancing these mutations plus the stress of todays society and pressures. All paxil, proscac does is a bandaid for artifically increasing methylation and tricking the body into doing somthing that its not. By balancing a freinds liver pathway I brought her back in 4 months to her old self and I remember that ahe was atending grad school and told them that she may not make it because she was in so much pain. I examed her problem and identified what was going on with her made proper adjusmtents and now she is 50 lbs lighter, back in school and living life as she was before. She asked me how long it would take and I told her 4-6 months becuase liver has to shed and regenerate the cells and its been 6 mnths and she is depression free off adrenal medication, and just taking armout thyroid and her sam-e and she is happy as can be...She has poinsoned with petrocholate which lowers t4 levels and also cloggs up the conjugation pathways in the liver which gluthione runs off of and Sam-e increases . We had to go easy on the sam-e untill she had her b-12 folic acids levels built up other wise she had increased anxiety. Started her loading folic/ b-12 and then increasing the samm-e slowly and with in a few weeks her moods imporoved her strgnth went up and she ws able to get out of bed and start walking...She told me 6 months ago that she felt like she was going to die now she is in school and exercsing every day and she plains on running NYC marathon by june ..
stress (phyiscal mental, enviormental, chemical) > under methylation of the liver > reduce gltuhione> reduces Metallothionein > leads to zinc deficency / possible copper over load> thryoid /adrenal imbalacne > impairs immune system, endocrine problems, insulin imbalances, neurological deviation (serotonin, dopamine, ect)
Its rather simple but drs do not futher investigate things
low/ low normal uric acids
identify copper toxcitiy
need vitamin C, molydbenum,
undermethytors
(uric acid is directly proporptional to homocystein levels),
need sam-e, coenzyme q10,
, avoid sulfur based foods, and taruine, NAC,
have low cholesterol, ldh, trigycerides
low inuslin levels
low homocysteine
more prone to seasonal depressions
avoid niacin
high uric acid-
need more copper,
less moybdenum,
lower dosages of C,
need b-12, folic acid, b-6, NAC,
High inuslin
mainly insulin resistance
high homocysteine
Yes it's good, are you the new marianco about CFS ?
I need to find a bOOK about that :
"very interesting stress (phyiscal mental, enviormental, chemical) > under methylation of the liver > reduce gltuhione> reduces Metallothionein > leads to zinc deficency / possible copper over load> thryoid /adrenal imbalacne > impairs immune system, endocrine problems, insulin imbalances, neurological deviation (serotonin, dopamine, ect)"
Hardasnails, I saw some of your posts awhile back regarding methylation on anabolicminds.com. Just reading and re-reading advice you've givin other people has helped me . Ive had CFS hardcore since 2006 , I was put on a high dose of antibiotics with a shot of penecillin because of a cut on my foot. Well i felt fine before the antibiotics and shot..but afterward I became extremely tired/liver hurt/ringing in left ear/acne/brain fog/hypoglycemia ect. The doctors said i was fine and it should go away , unfortunately it never did.
Spent 1000's on acupuncturist,energy healers,herbologists,homeopathics,nutritionists ect with slight improvement. Until I started to do my research ...mainly liver..since ive had a dull ache there for 3 years. I ordered some ToxGuard Liver PF by Jarrow Formulas... ( b1, b6, folic, b5, NAC, ALA ect.) I took one pill the first night, the next day i could actually think clearly and i had alittle more energy. After a week on one pill a day all my symptoms were down including the liver pain by 30%(atleast), i was ecstatic! I upped the dose to 2 pills and got the worst headache of my life, yet this was only on 2 pills and the bottle says 3 a day.
Heres my problem....I bought some liquid chlorophyll to see if it would help with the headache so i could detox faster. I took 2 shots of it before i went to bed...the next day I woke up and felt like crap with brain fog/fatigue/acne..i was like WTF ive been doing so good now this? Its like the ToxGuard pills suddenly stopped working, i even took 2 and 3 pills eventually and NO detox reactions. I finally traced it back to the chlorophyll which is really high in copper. I believe the copper screwed up my methylation somehow and the ability to make glutathione .
In an effort to get my cycle running again ive tried
Taking theses has helped slightly but still i seem to be back at almost square one with my symptoms, just from chlorophyll
Now if I take anything with ALA ...NAC..i get acid reflux and brain fog which didnt happen before. And the Sam-E makes me sick to my stomach with tons of brain fog. My theory is that the copper somehow blocked my ability to make glutathione ..so now when i take NAC... cystine just builds up and makes my symptoms worse. Do you think taking some glycine would help convert back some glutathione?
I got a ONE Test by genova 2 weeks ago wich includes Oxidative stress/ Orgainc Aminos/ Amino Acids..i should have the results next week .
Jon, just a thought....with CFS rule out infections, notably lyme. You don't necessarily need to be in an endemic area. If antibiotics made you worse, it could possibly have been a Herxheimer reaction to a smoldering infection. I just wanted to point that out in case your other efforts turn out to be dead-ends.
Re: help for my CFS 
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